View Full Version : What music can you not stick ?
Barbirollians
09-02-11, 23:52
OK - an obvious one to start - Carmina Burana - dreadful rubbish .
2 Minimalism- especially Steve Reich - dreary as hell
3 German post war atonal music - Rihm , and Stockhausen worst of all - the latter the musical equivalent of the " Emperor's New Clothes "
OK - an obvious one to start - Carmina Burana - dreadful rubbish .
2 Minimalism- especially Steve Reich - dreary as hell
3 German post war atonal music - Rihm , and Stockhausen worst of all - the latter the musical equivalent of the " Emperor's New Clothes "
All so-called "classical" music composed before 1945. Total rubbish, no rhythm, no thump-thump-thump, long overdrawn melodies, large oversized orchestras or ditto choirs, who needs 20 or so musicians to play Bach let alone some hundreds as in that b***y oversized Mahler-guy if you can do that all with one synthesizer or electronic equipment. Bah, humbug.
All so-called "classical" music composed before 1945. Total rubbish
:laugh:
Barbirollians
10-02-11, 00:21
Most interesting Roehre- surely Bach having composed and died before 1945 - is intolerable no matter how many musicians are involved?
Uncle Monty
10-02-11, 17:59
Hey, I like Carmina Burana! In the right hands, very moving.
Tchaikovsky is the one I can't stick. All of it. I'd be happy if I never had to hear or play another note :grr: :erm:
maestro267
10-02-11, 18:31
Yawn. Another thread for the anti-'populism' crowd to put down pieces that have been embraced by non-classical music lovers.
Carmina Burana is one of the defining choral works of the 20th century, and Tchaikovsky is one of the best composers, full stop.
Barbirollians
10-02-11, 19:28
No - maestro it is intended to be about your personal response to music . I cannot abide Carmina Burana but I love Tchaikovsky.
Eine Alpensinfonie
10-02-11, 19:57
Although not wishing to be a party-pooper, is there any real point in this kind of thread? We all have our likes and dislikes, but shouting dislikes through a megaphone doesn't really help. Hearing about a work someone recommends, on the other hand, often prompts me to investigate.
Uncle Monty
10-02-11, 20:18
Although not wishing to be a party-pooper, is there any real point in this kind of thread? We all have our likes and dislikes, but shouting dislikes through a megaphone doesn't really help. Hearing about a work someone recommends, on the other hand, often prompts me to investigate.
Well, yes, but I'm sure we have room for both sorts of thread!
There probably isn't any point in talking to anyone about anything much when it really comes down to it -- but it's sort-of nice, isn't it? :cool2:
I like to think I can be as populist as the next yobbo if required. I enjoy some real rubbish, while some highbrow works leave me cold. And then there's Tchaikovsky :devil: I'm quite willing to bore everyone to death with the reasons why his music is so dire, but I don't somehow think that was really the intention behind the thread :winkeye:
MrGongGong
10-02-11, 20:19
OK - an obvious one to start - Carmina Burana - dreadful rubbish .
2 Minimalism- especially Steve Reich - dreary as hell
3 German post war atonal music - Rihm , and Stockhausen worst of all - the latter the musical equivalent of the " Emperor's New Clothes "
BINGO
(whats my prize ?)
:winkeye:
Eine Alpensinfonie
10-02-11, 20:30
And then there's Tchaikovsky :devil: I'm quite willing to bore everyone to death with the reasons why his music is so dire, but I don't somehow think that was really the intention behind the thread :winkeye: Go on! You really want to. :laugh: Personally, I think he's one of the two greatest 19th century composers, the other being Wagner.
Uncle Monty
11-02-11, 10:26
Go on! You really want to. :laugh: Personally, I think he's one of the two greatest 19th century composers, the other being Wagner.
Well, OK, as in business, where you never use your own money if you can use someone else's, here are some pertinent quotes:
"Pierre Boulez, high priest of postwar musical modernism, has never conducted a single note of Tchaikovsky, and describes the composer's life's work as "abominable"; he has even opined that every Tchaikovsky-lover at a Tchaikovsky concert is celebrating the cult of himself. Ouch. The composer is, for many arbiters of musical taste, a disposable and even dangerous sentimentalist, as relevant to the modern world as the tsarist decadence of a Fabergé egg." -- Tom Service
"Tchaikovsky's violin concerto brings us for the first time to the horrid idea that there may be music that stinks to the ear." -- Sarah Chang
"Tchaikovsky sucks. No, srsly, he's a horrible composer." -- American teenager.
I rest my case :cool2:
rauschwerk
11-02-11, 10:34
Those quotations, Monty, say absolutely nothing at all about the quality of Tchaikovsky's music, do they? The second was actually penned by Eduard Hanslick! And "srsly" is a typo for what?
Eine Alpensinfonie
11-02-11, 11:18
And "srsly" is a typo for what? As it was an American teenager, it would be textspeak. I'm quite impressed he had heard of Tchaikovsky. When I mentioned Boulez's pompous attitude on the BBC Messageboards, someone replied that (s)he was going to get rid of his/her CDs with Boulez conducting. I wouldn't go that far, as Boulez is a fine conductor - misguided, but still good.
Uncle Monty
11-02-11, 11:22
Those quotations, Monty, say absolutely nothing at all about the quality of Tchaikovsky's music, do they? The second was actually penned by Eduard Hanslick! And "srsly" is a typo for what?
No, of course they don't! I'm not sure what would, ultimately. I know only that as a rank & file orchestral player I always dread Tchaikovsky, invariably a horrible experience. It's the relentless, predictable and deeply tedious chromatic runs, swirling sickeningly and often, it seems, pointlessly. On a personal level, I'm not "turned on" by melody as much as by harmony and texture, so even if there's something possibly attractive soaring away at the top, what's underneath had better be good, and I'm afraid Tchaikovsky's textures are just so much sludge.
'Course, that's only one man's opinion :whistle:
I think the "srsly" is txtspk for "seriously". One despairs. . . :sadface:
Uncle Monty
11-02-11, 11:30
As it was an American teenager, it would be textspeak. I'm quite impressed he had heard of Tchaikovsky. When I mentioned Boulez's pompous attitude on the BBC Messageboards, someone replied that (s)he was going to get rid of his/her CDs with Boulez conducting. I wouldn't go that far, as Boulez is a fine conductor - misguided, but still good.
I think he was a she, not that it matters. I didn't want to name & shame.
I could be equally cross with Boulez for his moronic comments about Vaughan Williams, but I'm the forgiving type :peacedove:
His Mahler recordings I certanly value.
rauschwerk
11-02-11, 11:34
Very interesting to have a player's viewpoint, Monty. The music of Tchaikovsky that I have played (piano music, that is) and sung has none of the features that revolt you. I had always imagined that the orchestral music must be rewarding to play, but clearly that's not the case.
Barbirollians
11-02-11, 12:08
A very old friend of mine many years back said he would have given up his youth orchestra and done something much more interesting with his time as a sixth former - had it not been for the fact that he got to play that horn solo in the opening of the slow movement of Tchaikovsky 5
visualnickmos
11-02-11, 12:56
...is there any real point in this kind of thread?
Here, here....
visualnickmos
11-02-11, 12:57
...or is it "hear, hear...???? " never having been an MP, I'm out of step with archaic terms!
Uncle Monty
11-02-11, 13:40
A very old friend of mine many years back said he would have given up his youth orchestra and done something much more interesting with his time as a sixth former - had it not been for the fact that he got to play that horn solo in the opening of the slow movement of Tchaikovsky 5
The only trouble I have with that is that Tchaikovsky clearly plagiarised it from John Denver's "Annie's Song" :doh:
Ignore me -- I'm just grumpy because I've learned I've got to play the ****** thing again later this year :steam:
Suffolkcoastal
11-02-11, 13:48
In all this Tchaikovsky slating, it is interesting to note that one of his most ardent admirers was Stravinsky. I agree with Stravinsky and personally adore Tchaikovsky's music.
Of course for me my pet dislike is Mahler whose music I loathe, other intense dislikes include Bel Canto opera, certain contemporary composers such as Birtwistle and Turnage, and composers such as Rosner and Part whose music I find featureless.
Outside of classical music, I cannot abide, modern jazz, modern musicals they all sound like cliches of themselves, certain types of pop music such as chart dance music and R&B and my pet hate of all country & western.
Uncle Monty
11-02-11, 13:57
In all this Tchaikovsky slating, it is interesting to note that one of his most ardent admirers was Stravinsky. I agree with Stravinsky and personally adore Tchaikovsky's music.
Of course for me my pet dislike is Mahler whose music I loathe, other intense dislikes include Bel Canto opera, certain contemporary composers such as Birtwistle and Turnage, and composers such as Rosner and Part whose music I find featureless.
Outside of classical music, I cannot abide, modern jazz, modern musicals they all sound like cliches of themselves, certain types of pop music such as chart dance music and R&B and my pet hate of all country & western.
I could have written all that myself, suffolk, except the Tchaikovsky/Mahler bit! I would have loathed Mahler the person, I'm sure, but I find myself getting more and more deeply immersed in his sound-world. Well, and the "featureless" bit, perhaps -- I like interesting textures, and don't mind if there isn't much actually happening.
.... is there any real point in this kind of thread?
No
Barbirollians
11-02-11, 15:00
If you dislike a thread and feel there is no point in it then why post in it ?
If you dislike a thread and feel there is no point in it then why post in it ?
As there is a difference between considering a thread being pointless and disliking it.
In all this Tchaikovsky slating, it is interesting to note that one of his most ardent admirers was Stravinsky. I agree with Stravinsky and personally adore Tchaikovsky's music.
Of course for me my pet dislike is Mahler whose music I loathe
Yet Mahler himself adored Tchaikovsky - and a certain other Suffolk coastalian named Britten adored them both!
and my pet hate of all country & western.
Can't disagree with you there!
Mahler certainly didn't enjoy Eugen Onegin: 'Nonsense!' was his comment, slamming the score after an orchestral rehearsal.
I've said it before, but I find it very difficult to work up much, or indeed any, enthusiasm for unaccompanied choral music, or music of a religious bent generally: I acknowledge the genius of Bach and Handel but it is a genius which says very little to me. 'Heavenly' is the comment often applied to their large scale works: well, it's a heaven I'd be keen to blaspheme my way out of.
Listening to Gilbert and Sullivan makes me feel physically violent. Chacun a son gout and all that, but it's beyond me how anyone can find pleasure in Gilbert's pompous, fat-bottomed rhymes and Sullivan's sewing-machine rhythms. To me, they represent a particularly unpleasant aspect of 'Englishness': sexless, fogeyish and up itself. The only CD I've deliberately destroyed contained Sullivan's 'Irish' symphony and his momumentally unmemorable Cello Concerto. The infamous English love of mediocrity is, I feel, responsible for the fact that this pair of non-entities aren't long-forgotten.
In pop music, I really can't abide heavy metal (which is a separate entity from hard rock) and I have an instant, allergic reaction to 'hip hop', 'house', 'garage', or whatever other modish name that junk is going by these days. Though my instant allergic reaction also means I can't analyse it, so can't offer a proper judgement.
Country and Western aint actually all that bad...the cliche is that it's all about dogs dying, hitting the bottle and finding Jesus but , post-Hank Williams, that has not been the case.
Ferretfancy
11-02-11, 17:47
Suffolkcoastal,
I wouldn't say that I loathe Mahler, but I have to say that all my Mahler CDs are in my reserve collection. I don't mind the song cycles now and again, and I can take the first four symphonies if they are performed well, it's the endless cult of this composer that makes me rage! All that neurosis and chest beating!
My only real pet hate is reserved for all those holy minimalists, and Taverner in particular. Utter pretentiousness combined with religiosity, and he could do with a haircut too!
Suffolkcoastal,
I wouldn't say that I loathe Mahler, but I have to say that all my Mahler CDs are in my reserve collection. I don't mind the song cycles now and again, and I can take the first four symphonies if they are performed well, it's the endless cult of this composer that makes me rage! All that neurosis and chest beating!
My only real pet hate is reserved for all those holy minimalists, and Taverner in particular. Utter pretentiousness combined with religiosity, and he could do with a haircut too!
John Culshaw absolutely loathed Mahler.....he said the sensation that he got from the music was akin to having snakes writhing about in his clothes. Producing Solti's (long oop) recording of the 4th was about as much as he could manage, then he bailed out of future Mahler sessions, leaving David Harvey to take over.
EdgeleyRob
11-02-11, 18:17
I can't stand country and western music.
Barbirollians
11-02-11, 19:23
Bloated choral works generally I am not fond of whether or not they are religious- Delius's Mass of Life bores me to tears even more than Durufle's Requiem.
Agree about religious minimalism too.
I don't like the tune Hovis wrote.
I loathe Louis Vierne's music. Cant stand those organ recitals which end with
Carillon de Westminster !
MrGongGong
11-02-11, 20:17
The Dream of Gerontius (again !!!)
I know many of you love it
but I can't stand its sanctimonious and self-righteous anglo catholic pomposity
Ferretfancy
My only real pet hate is reserved for all those holy minimalists, and Taverner in particular. Utter pretentiousness combined with religiosity, and he could do with a haircut too!
Do you not mean (Sir) John Tavener? You can’t possibly hate, pet or otherwise, Taverner?
I can’t say I HATE any music but I agree with you. I find Tavener’s (Sir) music rather pretentious.
MrGongGong
11-02-11, 20:20
Is it the SOUND of the music thats "pretentious" or the statements of the composer ?
(with reference to Dahlhaus and in no more than 3,000 words.......... now turn over your papers !)
Is it the SOUND of the music thats "pretentious" or the statements of the composer ?
Yes.
MrGongGong
11-02-11, 20:24
how can a sound be pretentious ?
By being combined with others in a composition by Tavener.
MrGongGong
11-02-11, 20:30
I'm not a great fan of taverner
but find it hard to think that a sound can be "pretentious" ?
though most of a certain well know composer of musicals seems to be pretending to be Puccini ? (Allegedly of course given the litigious nature of some people !)
Paul Sherratt
11-02-11, 20:36
>>I can't stand country and western music.
Well there's quite a lot of it, EdgeleyRob.
Who has upset you the most ( and why ? :smiley: )
PS
Love that dawg!
Maybe think of it in the plural, Mr GG.
A sound might not be pretentious; lots of sounds together might be.
Eine Alpensinfonie
11-02-11, 21:03
The Dream of Gerontius (again !!!)
I know many of you love it
but I can't stand its sanctimonious and self-righteous anglo catholic pomposityYes, I know you prefer the musical equivalent of lying on a bed of nails.
Perhaps pretentious is not quite the right expression. I might rephrase it as ‘it sounds too mystic’. Or Tavener seems to be trying to create a sound world that conjures up something mystic, which, within my value system, comes close to being pretentious. But again, this may be because my impression is biased by his statements which usually accompany the performance of his work.
Suffolkcoastal
11-02-11, 21:05
I'm not a great fan of taverner
but find it hard to think that a sound can be "pretentious" ?
though most of a certain well know composer of musicals seems to be pretending to be Puccini ? (Allegedly of course given the litigious nature of some people !)
I so hate that certain composer of musicals music that I'd put him out of my mind, he doesn't just pretend to be Puccini there is a very strong similarity between a certain passage in a certain musical and a theme in La Fancuilla del West!
On the contrary, I think pretentious is quite the right word in relation to Johnny T.
Eine Alpensinfonie
11-02-11, 21:10
I so hate that certain composer of musicals music that I'd put him out of my mind, he doesn't just pretend to be Puccini there is a very strong similarity between a certain passage in a certain musical and a theme in La Fancuilla del West!And let's not forget Mendelssohn's Violin Concerto, Vaughan Williams' London Symphony and Ravel's Bolero.
burning dog
11-02-11, 21:40
Einaudi
MrGongGong
11-02-11, 21:53
Einaudi
there's no need for that sort of language in here
:winkeye:
Chris Newman
11-02-11, 23:46
Andre Rieu.
Yuk! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LX1fiE0U1qA)
Yuk! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LX1fiE0U1qA)
Beyond belief! :yikes:
And I bet no-one is playing live :doh:
99% of Bruckner. Too long, too thickly scored, all the scherzos sound the same. I HAVE tried to like him.
antongould
12-02-11, 09:17
Well if salymap is being brave enough to admit to being unable to stick Bruckner then I will admit to a dislike of 98 percent of his "Master" Wagner's work, and yes like salymap I have tried very hard to like his music.
What is on CDR now: Renaissance music being sung with a top line as if it were Schubvert lieder, wobbly and 'shaped' towards vibrato unlike anything Victoria / Vivanco etc is ever likely to have heard. Ruins the discipiine. Makes every group sound like the BBC Singers, and offhand, I can't think of a worse or more insulting parallel - but I'll work on it. Ggrrrrrr!!!
Eine Alpensinfonie
12-02-11, 09:37
Makes every group sound like the BBC Singers, and offhand, I can't think of a worse or more insulting parallel - but I'll work on it. Ggrrrrrr!!! Yes, I've often thought the same. Sadly, even Rutter's formerly excellent Cambridge Singers devleoped a BBC Wobble as their singers became more "mature". :sadface:
Country and Western aint actually all that bad...the cliche is that it's all about dogs dying, hitting the bottle and finding Jesus but , post-Hank Williams, that has not been the case.
Agreed. For example some of Dolly Parton's 'Little Sparrow' album.
Paul Sherratt
12-02-11, 12:13
US country music accurately and honestly documents true life experiences of many, if not most 'working class', largely white, US
citizens. I've never understood why so many people on this side of the pond react so strongly against ( the little ? )
that they've heard.
( The remarkable Dolly Parton hits the target over and over )
And when George Jones sings this, well ...
The dirt was clay and was the color of the blood in me.
A twelve acre farm on a ridge in south Tennessee.
We left our sweat all over that land,
Behind a mule we watched grow old,
Row after row.
Trying to grow corn an' cotton on ground so poor that grass won't grow.
There was one old store in the holler we all called town.
It belonged to a gentle old man named Henry Brown.
He gave us credit and in the winter time,
So we could live through the cold,
When the winds brought snow.
Trying to grow corn an' cotton on ground so poor that grass won't grow.
The one I loved walked through those fields with me.
A hard workin' woman, true as one could be.
But then one year, death was goin' round,
And swiftly took it's toll.
Janie had to go.
Now she lies asleep under ground so poor that grass won't grow.
As I stand here looking over this part of Tennessee,
The fields are bare as far as the eye can see.
And over the ground where Janie lies,
There's a beautiful sight to behold,
And no one knows,
Why there's flowers growin' on ground so poor that grass won't grow...
Any kind of background music.
Ferretfancy
12-02-11, 13:37
DracoM
When I first worked in Broadcasting House in 1957,staff had the right to leave their posts if they wished to attend the Daily Service in the Concert Hall every morning. The BBC Singers were in residence for this event, and as far as I remember very few of my colleagues took up the challenge!
Eine Alpensinfonie
12-02-11, 15:17
The drumbeat jingles during traffic warnings, weather warnings, etc.
Come to think of it, anything that includes a drumkit. It's a bit like admiring the Taj Mahal when it's covered with scaffolding (or a Haydn or Mozart with an unscored and jangley harpsichord.
I don't like almost all of Bruckner, Carmina Burana, minimlism.
As I concluded when mulling over the various replies to the thread I started a while back in a fit of anti-Tchaikovsky feeling (http://www.for3.org/forums/showthread.php?893-Extremely-annoying-pieces-of-classical-music), and as mentioned above, this sort of thread doesn't have much point other than to drive home the obvious truth of the cliché that one person's meat is another's poison.
However I agree with Roehre...
If you dislike a thread and feel there is no point in it then why post in it ?
As there is a difference between considering a thread being pointless and disliking it.
:laugh:
... that there is a certain enjoyment (limited, but of the "getting-it-off-your-chest" variety) in slaying 'bêtes noires"
For now I won't go into Tchaikovsky, Liszt, opera of the Donizetti/Bellini type.
The thing I can't stick is the recent trend for most high quality nature documentary series (of the David Attenborough variety) to feature a wall-to-wall orchestral soundtrack, second rate mood / descriptive muzak which for me renders the programmes unwatchable - it trivialises, patronises, sentimentalises and intrudes.... :doh::yikes::steam::grr:
Oh well, I'm basically grateful for anything which encourages me to watch less telly. But what a waste of all the unbelievable skill and dedication which goes into the research and filming of a number of the series in question. :sadface:
Ferretfancy
12-02-11, 23:30
Like most people, I'm irritated by excessively ponderous music on documentaries, especially since it is often synthesised. Even worse is the use of well known classical music in the most inappropriate context. A recent example is the use of the scherzo from Mendelssohn's Midsummer Night's Dream music as an introduction to a series about the English novel.
When I was mixing, I lost count of the number of times I tried to persuade production staff not to use the third movement of Bartok's Music for Strings, Percussion and Celesta whenever a space craft appeared on the screen. Some otherwise interesting programmes are spoilt by the fact that they become a game of spot the tune, and I think it's got a great deal worse. It's probably not unfair to add that very few documentary film makers know much about classical music, they would always prefer a track of rock music where possible, usually of the most banal kind.
One final gripe, why is it that every documentary now has to start with an extended preview of what is to come, and in the case of commercial networks, a reprise after every ad break ?
Eine Alpensinfonie
13-02-11, 08:25
It's probably not unfair to add that very few documentary film makers know much about classical music, they would always prefer a track of rock music where possible, usually of the most banal kind. Sad but true, and it will get worse because the future producers will not have experienced classical music at school.
One final gripe, why is it that every documentary now has to start with an extended preview of what is to come, and in the case of commercial networks, a reprise after every ad break ? I always think this is counterproductive. If I'm not impressed by the preview, I'm hardly likely to watch the series itself, even though this is generally far superior. One thing that does irritate me is the attention-seeking bit at the end, when the camera crew shows everyone how brave and clever they have been by making us watch it all again, but with them on it it this time. That's fine for a DVD "extra", but is inappropriate for the main programme.
MrGongGong
13-02-11, 08:33
Sad but true, and it will get worse because the future producers will not have experienced classical music at school..
why do people (including some famous but ignorant musicians !) insist on perpetrating this myth ?
look at the content of GCSE music and then tell me that there is no classical music ?
go to a primary school and tell me that there is NEVER any ?
music is a wide subject and "Classical music" is part of it not ALL of it
I do begin to wonder if there is any music that anyone actually enjoys.
And is the feeling of nausea reported by some people in reaction to music a form of synaesthesia?
MrGongGong
13-02-11, 08:54
well everyone seems to love Xenakis :winkeye:
Eine Alpensinfonie
13-02-11, 09:02
why do people (including some famous but ignorant musicians !) insist on perpetrating this myth ?
look at the content of GCSE music and then tell me that there is no classical music ?
go to a primary school and tell me that there is NEVER any ?
music is a wide subject and "Classical music" is part of it not ALL of it
Because it's not a myth, though neither is it a universal sin. As for GCSE music, that's one of the worst offenders. There may be a token amount of classical music, but that's all. And you can get a grade C without being able to read a note of music. Of course the Nouveau Musical Educational Establishment will say that it doesn't matter - literacy only matters in English, French, German, etc.... :doh:
MrGongGong
13-02-11, 09:13
I'm not saying that music education is perfect
but
heres the programme of study from the current GCSE syllabus (Edexcell) so we can see how "Classical" music is a "Token"amount ! (and the Indian music here is more "classical" than the Bernstien but thats another discussion !)
"
Western classical music 1600-1899
Music in the 20th century
Popular music in context
World music
Set works
G F Handel: Chorus: And The Glory of The Lord from Messiah, HWV 56
A Schoenberg: Peripetie from Five Orchestral Pieces, Op. 16
M Davis: All Blues from the album Kind of Blue
Capercaillie: Chuir M’Athair Mise Dhan Taigh Charraideach (Skye Waulking Song) from the album Nàdurra
W A Mozart:1st Movement from Symphony No. 40 in G minor, K. 550
L Bernstein: Something’s Coming from West Side Story
J Buckley: Grace from the album Grace
Rag Desh
Suggested listening:
• A Shankar: Rag Desh from the album Live at Carnegie Hall
• S D Dhandhada and H Dhandhada: Rag Desh from the album Mewar Re Mira
• B Wertheimer and S Gorn: Rag Desh Parts 1-3 from the album Priyagitah: The Nightingale
F Chopin: Prelude No 15 in D flat major, Op. 28
S Reich: 3rd Movement (fast) from Electric Counterpoint
Moby: Why Does My Heart Feel So Bad? from the album Play
Koko: Yiri "
Music is an aural subject , "reading" is useful for some musics but not all musics
I do think that reading notation should be (and IS !) part of what people learn but lets not go back to the days I remember where I did O level music and didn't have to make ANY sound at all !!!
Musical literacy is not about reading notation but about understanding MUSIC (which includes notation) as a whole
whether its taught well or badly is another thing entirely
Alain Maréchal
14-02-11, 22:49
We can hope that when listening to the J.Buckley, GCSE students also listen to the Corpus Christi Carol, like it, and decide to find out more about this Britten bloke.
Suffolkcoastal
15-02-11, 08:49
All I can say is looking at that syllabus, I'm glad I don't have to do GCSE music as I'd have walked out even as a 15/16 year old.
Paul Sherratt
15-02-11, 09:01
We can hope that when listening to the Britten bloke , GCSE students also listen to the Corpus Christi Carol, like it, and also decide to find out more about J. Buckley.
That unbelievably crass :doh: Danzon Cubano by Copland just played by Rob C on the Breakfast programme. Wretched piece :steam:
Had to be switched off with all speed (nearly spilt my cappuccino groping for the remote)
aka Calum Da Jazbo
15-02-11, 11:16
Jim Reeves Benjamin Britten Mahler Wagner Opera Long Organ works not by Bach Birtwhistle inter alia [and hip hop rap Celine Dion ......]
the point of such a thread is that disgust, being a universal emotion, is a primary basis of social bonding - if we are not disgusted by the same things we are estranged in some degree ... how could i possibly relate to anyone who finds ecstasy in Peter Grimes or The Nose? or trust their judgement? [and of course vice versa] and so i am struggling not to be rude to those who mention modern jazz, who fail to find beauty in Dolly Parton's later recordings in which she reworks her blue grass roots .... [as opposed to her hair which has no roots to speak of]
oh yes and minimalism, that italian piano chappie who must not be named, the unhip, the uncool, the square boring stodge that can be made of classical music pre 1945 Jerusalem the Coors Status Quo David Essex LLOYD WEBBER and his warbling ex missus HAIR JOSEPHS TAILOR le parapluies de cherbourg ...... any thing by or about american teenagers on principle ...
i could go on .... but i feel much better now, thank you
Suffolkcoastal
15-02-11, 12:21
Danzon Cubano actually sounds better in its original two piano version. The trouble is that it now turns up every 3-4 weeks on Breakfast or on another programme, it and extracts from Rodeo, plus a couple of other works seem to be all that is broadcast by Copland, his important works hardly get a look in these days on R3 and is a prime example of R3 doing possible serious damage to the standing of a composer by continually playing only a select handful of works by that particular composer, which aren't necessarily that composer's best works. Another example is Khachaturian R 3 has broadcast 6 pieces so far this year which consist solely of either the Adagio from Spartacus or the Sabre Dance!
Ferretfancy
15-02-11, 18:52
Suffolkcoastal,
I support you completely regarding Copland, although I love Appalachian Spring and other popular works by him, he also wrote so much good music which hardly gets played at all. Statements, for example, or the Symphonic Ode. I'm sure that the composer himself would have not expected Danzon Cubano to be aired almost every week.
I can't agree with you so readily about Khachaturian, I'm afraid. Apart from the well known works mentioned, and possibly the Piano Concerto, I would say that he's an almost completely worthless composer. Still, we can't like everything!
Bws.
Ferret
Suffolkcoastal
15-02-11, 22:05
I do agree that Khachaturian is not the equal of Copland as a composer, but I don't write him off completely the Piano, Cello & Violin Concertos, the 1st Symphony and some of the solo piano works are worthwhile, I was just using him as an example of the continual playing of just a couple of short extracts can do a lot of harm to a composer.
Many of Copland's major works seem to have currently disappeared from R3 schedules, Statements is very approachable and the Symphonic Ode is hardly ever heard these days. The Short Symphony is a minor-masterpiece IMO and it and other key works like the Piano Variations are also brodcast a lot less. One of my favourite Copland works is the Nonet one of the most satisfying of his chamber works and I also have a 'soft spot for Dance Panels, Inscape and Music for a Great City, the 2nd movement of the latter is one Copland's most haunting pieces and when I first acquired a recording of it I had to play the work 3 or 4 times I was that moved.
Bws
SC
Ferretfancy
15-02-11, 22:37
Suffolkcoastal
How nice to find somebody who enjoys Dance Panels and Inscape. I used to find the Clarinet Concerto a bit too astringent for my taste, but not any more, so I'm probably ready for the Piano Variations. Vitebsk is fascinating too.
Bws.
Ferret
suffolkcoastal,
your remarks re Copland::ale::ok:
Danzon Cubano actually sounds better in its original two piano version. The trouble is that it now turns up every 3-4 weeks on Breakfast or on another programme, it and extracts from Rodeo, plus a couple of other works seem to be all that is broadcast by Copland, his important works hardly get a look in these days on R3 and is a prime example of R3 doing possible serious damage to the standing of a composer by continually playing only a select handful of works by that particular composer, which aren't necessarily that composer's best works.
Bang on cue: 8.44 16.2.11, Copland, *uckaroo Holiday from "Rodeo"...
:doh:
:steam:
Uncle Monty
16-02-11, 09:12
I echo the praise of a lot of Copland's work. Perhaps you could say he "went a bit silly" in his Paris years, but why not? And when he did find his level, as it were, there was a lengthy stream of substantial and attractive work. (I'm about to play Down A Country Lane, by the way -- dates from 1964, really clean and fresh.)
Also, I agree that Khachaturian is seriously underrated, and I have made an effort to listen to a lot more of his work in recent years. Considering he was working under the Stalinist cosh, accused of the dreaded formalism (particularly ludicrous in his case), he did what he had to do to survive, and did it well.
When I was very little, the Waltz from Masquerade seemed to be on the radio all the time -- it's only now that I listen to it properly after so long that I realise how splendid it is. (But you can stuff that Spartacus thing :grr: :laugh: )
3rd Viennese School
16-02-11, 14:11
I get shouted down on occasions for stating that I don’t care much for Elgar, Britten or Brahms and yet Britten is allowed to state that he doesn’t like Brahms much either!
3VS
.......................anything by Verdi.
Anything by Gilbert and Sullivan, anything involving a countertenor and most of the Baroque repertoire.
Verdi, though, is second only to Wagner as an opera composer. OK, make that fourth after Wagner, Mozart and Richard Strauss.
Barbirollians
17-02-11, 22:19
Stephen I agree he is second - but with Mozart first . Wagner and R Strauss well behind with Puccini in third .
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