Bring back the organ

[bach736]

With RW seemingly open to revising R3 programme policies, is it not time to enter a plea for the return of the weekly organ recital?

Organ music on R3 is at present mostly confined to the concluding voluntary at Choral Evensong and a few obscure chorale preludes in Through the Night. With the exception of Classic fm, who only have two organ recordings - the Bach and Widor toccatas - every other classical music station in Europe treats the organ as part of the mainstream repertoire.

Organ music recitals attract significant audiences in the UK and the number of young organists is increasing. When compared to opera, symphonies, chamber and early music, the instrument, in all its variety, is grossly under represented.

[Eudaimonia]

When I was a kid, I used to love listening to "Pipedreams", a nationally-syndicated organ music programme.
Very educational, and definitely something I looked forward to each week. :smiley:

You can tune in online-- here's a sample for you:

Pipedreams: Jehan Alain, a Centenary Tribute
http://pipedreams.publicradio.org/listings/2011/1106/

[ardcarp]

Agreed. And when a programme such as Breakfast occasionally plays some of JSB's organ work, it is invariably arranged for something else...or is one of those Stokowsky orchestrations which some people seem to like but which I loathe with a passion.
OK Radio 3, if you're listening, how about serving up a live Poulenc Organ Concerto for starters? It's a great piece and I should have thought colourful enough to fulfil their 'popular' criteria.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

And when a programme such as Breakfast occasionally plays some of JSB's organ work, it is invariably arranged for something else...or is one of those Stokowsky orchestrations which some people seem to like but which I loathe with a passion.

On the other hand, isn't an organ really an attempt to substitute an orchestra with a single player? With that vast array of different voices, this incredible instrument always manages to sound like ... erm... an organ.

Of course the organ should be given fair representation on Radio 3, but I would challenge the notion that this is the "king of instruments. And that's after many years as a church organist (sacked for refusing to play Graham Kendrick hymns).

[Vile Consort]

On the other hand, isn't an organ really an attempt to substitute an orchestra with a single player? With that vast array of different voices, this incredible instrument always manages to sound like ... erm... an organ.


No, it isn't. How could it be when it was invented centuries before the orchestra as we know it? It is an instrument in its own right with its own distinctive sounds and it own repertoire.

I agree with adcarp - arrangements of organ music for orchestra are loathsome. As are, on the whole, arrangements of orchestral music for the organ. I've never heard one that didn't have me pining for the composer's original conception. I really am not a lover of pale imitations.

Once you go down the road of treating the organ as a substitute for an orchestra you are starting to think of the organ as an end in itself. I prefer to think of it as the authentic instrument on which to play the organ repertoire.

You can use an organ to play orchestral music, but then again, you can use a chisel to tighten a screw.

But, yes, let's have more organ music on Radio 3, properly assembled into programmes and not scattered all over the schedule when there's a need to fill three minutes here or there.

There was a time when R3 broadcast performances from the European organ competitions. I can still hear in my mind's ear a stunning performance of Liszt's "Ad Nos, ad Salutarem Undam" played by Jaruslav Tuma in the finals of the Nuremberg competition in 1980. I can still hear how he played the final page quite clearly in my mind's ear. No performance I have heard since has matched it.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

On the other hand, isn't an organ really an attempt to substitute an orchestra with a single player?
No, it isn't. How could it be when it was invented centuries before the orchestra as we know it? It is an instrument in its own right with its own distinctive sounds and it own repertoire. I didn't think that would go down too well. But when the organ is used to accompany a choral society as a cheap imitation of an orchestra, I don't find that acceptable at all.


I agree with adcarp - arrangements of organ music for orchestra are loathsome. As are, on the whole, arrangements of orchestral music for the organ. I've never heard one that didn't have me pining for the composer's original conception. I'm the opposite. Give me Elgar's and Stokowski's orchestral transcripts of Bach any day, and give me Gordon Jacob's orchestration of Elgar's Organ Sonata. Sir Ivor Atkins had the organist's revenge on Elgar, by making an organ transcription of the composer's Severn Suite and calling it "Organ Sonata no.2" :doh:.



You can use an organ to play orchestral music, but then again, you can use a chisel to tighten a screw.On this we agree.

But, yes, let's have more organ music on Radio 3, properly assembled into programmes and not scattered all over the schedule when there's a need to fill three minutes here or there. ...and on this too.

[Frances_iom]

Give me .. Stokowski's orchestral transcripts of Bach any day, ...
always remind me of "mud, mud glorious mud "

but seriously R3 under present management has virtually removed the organ from its repetoire - there used to be regular Organ recitals but now all we get other than the closing minutes of Choral Evensong is a few short pieces slipped in, often not indicated in advance, usually with not even a mention of the actual organ - in the past we had broadcast recitals on many of the great organs both in UK and Europe.

[Bryn]

always remind me of "mud, mud glorious mud "

but seriously R3 under present management has virtually removed the organ from its repetoire - there used to be regular Organ recitals but now all we get other than the closing minutes of Choral Evensong is a few short pieces slipped in, often not indicated in advance, usually with not even a mention of the actual organ - in the past we had broadcast recitals on many of the great organs both in UK and Europe.

Hmm, a bit like Albert Schweitzer playing the 'originals' then.

[MrGongGong]

Last time I commented on something to do with Organs ended rather badly
BUT
I'm all for more Messiaen !
though the organ is a good example (IMV) of a music that is less "portable" than we imagine (sitting in a large room , cold listening to endless Messiaen is a wonderful experience, playing the same music off a CD in the Car much much less so )

[Vile Consort]

Of course, we ought to be careful what we wish for - we might get fifteen days of nothing but organ music!

I am definitely up for more Messiaen, whether on the organ or not.

[Frances_iom]

Of course, we ought to be careful what we wish for - we might get fifteen days of nothing but organ music!
Great - 6 centuries of various styles to choose from

[Vile Consort]

Great - 6 centuries of various styles to choose from

... and temperaments!

[Jonathan]

More organ music on R3 sounds like an excellent idea to me!

[french frank]

Buxtehude :ok:

[gradus]

I wish R3 had been at St Edmundsbury Cathedral today for the inaugural recital on the new Harrison and Harrison organ in the expert hands of Nicolas Kynaston, with the entire team that designed built and installed the instrument in attendance; they must have been so proud to hear the splendid sounds.
The organ - 4 manuals, 59 speaking stops, was built between June 2009 and November 2010 and today's programme showed it to great effect - Bach, Mozart, Franck, Liszt, Alain and Jongen.
Well worth getting along to hear one of the remaining recitals if you leave at a reasonable distance, otherwise Choral Evensong will presumably visit at some point.

[Brassbandmaestro]

I love the organ too. The one at St Pierre de Bauvais, is my favourite. I don't see why not R3 cannot have a weekly programme!!

[Finzi4ever]

... it must be a huge improvement on its predecessor, both in terms of sound and now that it has two impressive cases in place of none.

[gradus]

Certainly is with swells facing South and West now and I gather that the new organ incorporates some of the pipes from the old, all else is new and the casework is splendid and beautu;ly carved and painted albeit covering the tops of the pipes.

[Troublebob]

But would these marvellous pipe organs sound as good on the radio as they do in real life, or would they sound like electronic instruments?

[Vile Consort]

But would these marvellous pipe organs sound as good on the radio as they do in real life, or would they sound like electronic instruments?

Does any instrument or ensemble sound as good on the radio as they do in real life, or do they sound like synthesizers?

[bach736]

... it must be a huge improvement on its predecessor, both in terms of sound and now that it has two impressive cases in place of none.

Well, the cases certainly look very nice but I shall miss the Nicholson - apart from its grubby keys. You could grow potatoes on them :biggrin:

[Finzi4ever]

What with the fantastic millennium tower and now the new H&H, my own beloved county has such an impressive cathedral for all us Tractorboys to be so proud of and it's one 'helluvan' achievement in so few years in the current economic climate.