Best Grieg/Schumann recording?

[Mandryka]

Somewhat to my amazement, I had - until yesterday - no recording of the Schumann Piano Concerto. This has now been remedied, having picked up the (apparently well-regarded) Kovacevich/Davis version.

Schumann/Grieg seem to be linked for all time as a 'neat' combination: it's difficult to obtain one without also obtaining the other. Wondering what your preferences are for these two?

[VodkaDilc]

I would pick the Kovacevich too, with Andsnes, Jansons and the Berlin Phil as a more recent alternative.

[Ferretfancy]

Everybody should hear the Solomon recording especially for the Grieg, it was one of EMI's first stereo recordings, made not long before Solomon's tragic stroke,a lovely performance. For Schumann, Lipatti is great of course, the version with Karajan is the one to go for because the Ansermet live broadcast has awful sound.
Then there's Richter with the Warsaw PO, and more recently Andsnes, so many indeed.

[Bryn]

Without doubt, my favourite recording of the Schumann is that by Andreas Staier (c. 1850 J.B. Streicher), with Elysian Fields Orchestra directed by Philippe Herreweghe. It comes coupled with a decent performance of the 'Cello Concerto as played by Christophe Coin.

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41YHGXZX7CL._SL500_AA300_.jpg

[amateur51]

I've always enjoyed the several recorded performances of the Schumann piano concerto by Walter Gieseking. For me he seems to bring out the conversational quality of much of the musical interplay between piano and orchestra ( I mean that in a positive way).

My first ever recorded performance of the Grieg piano concerto was on LP and was by Cziffra. I loved it from the start but I don't know if it's currently available.

There are a couple of recordings by Percy Grainger, a great friend of Grieg, playing the Grieg concerto in fine style. One features a Grainger soundtrack 'accompanied' by the orchestral part conducted by Michael Tilson Thomas, I think. They are well worth hearing if you can find them.

[barber olly]

Katchen/Kertesz and Lupu/Previn are two of my favourites.

[Ferretfancy]

For the Grieg, I've just remembered Clifford Curzon with the LPO and Feljstad, which has re-appeared in various bargain guises including a nice coupling with Franck's Symphonic Variations, Boult conducting.

[HighlandDougie]

Not sure if it's still available but the live Michelangeli recording of the Grieg is a wonderful performance (and coupled with a live performance of the First Book of the Debussy Préludes which is equally fine). Exceptionally fine playing and, from a pianist often thought of as a bit patrician and grand, full of passion. Almost enough to convince one that the Grieg is the greatest romantic concerto of them all.

[french frank]

Katchen/Kertesz and Lupu/Previn are two of my favourites.Ha! I scuttled to see which LP version I'd inherited from my brother's late father-in-law and was going to claim to be the only one here with Katchen/Israel Phil/Kertesz.

I'm going to play it now :smiley:. Doesn't this forum come up with nice ideas?

[StephenO]

Doesn't this forum come up with nice ideas?
It certainly does! :smiley:

My favourite recordings are Kovacevich/Davis and Andsnes/Jansons but for the Schumann on its own I have a soft spot for Pires, CoE and Abbado on DG, coupled with an excellent performance of the Piano Quintet.

[Mandryka]

I used to have the Ogdon/Berglund version of this coupling, which the Penguin Guide was so scathing about (one of its very rare 'one stars', as I recall). Alas, I was too young back then to have been able to form my own judgement!

[LeMartinPecheur]

I used to have the Ogdon/Berglund version of this coupling, which the Penguin Guide was so scathing about (one of its very rare 'one stars', as I recall). Alas, I was too young back then to have been able to form my own judgement! Over a year ago I was given a copy of that by a neighbour, along with about 4 other Grieg concertos (her father was a BIG fan of the work). Knowing the PG's view I haven't dared play it yet:blush::erm:

But maybe I shall now...:whistle:

[Norfolk Born]

Lars Vogt/Rattle/CBSO.

[gurnemanz]

Here's another vote for Lupu/Previn - lovely recordings, great hairstyle

http://i05.s2.imagehosting.ws/2010-06-02/103937/000ae8d4_medium.jpeg

[mikealdren]

ferret,
Yes Lipatti is very fine in the Schumann but, for me, it's his Grieg that is incomparable, a truly fabulous performance and one of the great classics of the gramophone.

Mike

[LeMartinPecheur]

Over a year ago I was given a copy of that by a neighbour, along with about 4 other Grieg concertos (her father was a BIG fan of the work). Knowing the PG's view I haven't dared play it yet:blush::erm:

But maybe I shall now...:whistle: Well, I've just played it and it's certainly different! Sounds as if Ogdon, and even Berglund, think that all previous performances have completely misunderstood the work and it's really about four sizes bigger than anyone ever thought, right up with the big bow-wow virtuoso concertos by Liszt, Brahms or Rachmaninov. The recording is unflattering but it's pretty clear that Ogdon really wants a huge piano sound, which is coupled with sluggish tempos and a massive ritardando or two in the 1st mov't cadenza. Worth hearing once but to the Oxfam shop it will probably go.

Next question is, do I dare try the Schumann?? If O and B are in the same mindset as for the Grieg, that would be infinitely more painful. I note that the Gramophone reviewer agreed pretty much with the PG about the Grieg, and then forbore to say anything about the Schumann. That may be a clue!

[Mandryka]

Well, I've just played it and it's certainly different! Sounds as if Ogdon, and even Berglund, think that all previous performances have completely misunderstood the work and it's really about four sizes bigger than anyone ever thought, right up with the big bow-wow virtuoso concertos by Liszt, Brahms or Rachmaninov. The recording is unflattering but it's pretty clear that Ogdon really wants a huge piano sound, which is coupled with sluggish tempos and a massive ritardando or two in the 1st mov't cadenza. Worth hearing once but to the Oxfam shop it will probably go.

Next question is, do I dare try the Schumann?? If O and B are in the same mindset as for the Grieg, that would be infinitely more painful. I note that the Gramophone reviewer agreed pretty much with the PG about the Grieg, and then forbore to say anything about the Schumann. That may be a clue!

If it's the same disc as I had, it also contains Franck's Symphonic Variations - Ogdon paired with Barbirolli: as I recall, the PG was slightly kinder to this, though it remains the lowest rated of all Barbirolli's recordings by that source (or Ogdon's, come to that).

[Barbirollians]

Perahia is marvellous in both concertos too.

Another vote for Kovacevich as well but probably my two favourites are Lipatti and Argerich .

Although I wouldn't be without Richter...

[makropulos]

Perahia is marvellous in both concertos too.

Another vote for Kovacevich as well but probably my two favourites are Lipatti and Argerich .

Although I wouldn't be without Richter...

I was going to say Richter/Matacic (EMI) in Grieg/Schumann - along with Lipatti's Grieg (especially), but I also love Leon Fleisher and Szell in this coupling. It's probably harder to find complete duds.
Incidentally, has anyone yet recorded the significantly different first published version of the Grieg? (it was a work he revised constantly).

[LeMartinPecheur]

If it's the same disc as I had, it also contains Franck's Symphonic Variations - Ogdon paired with Barbirolli: as I recall, the PG was slightly kinder to this, though it remains the lowest rated of all Barbirolli's recordings by that source (or Ogdon's, come to that). Mandryka: the Ogdon/Berglund came out in 1972 on ASD 2802 c/w the Schumann. The Ogdon/ Barbirolli Franck Symphonic Var's (PG 1-star) came out on ASD 542 c/w the Tchaik Conc No 1 (PG 2-star). The cat. no, next after the amazing Sinfonia of London/Barbirolli 'English String Music' (Elgar/VW), suggests a much earlier issue-date c.1963. If you really had the Franck and the Grieg together on LP, this suggests that some sadist in EMI earned his bucks merrily recoupling all of Ogdon's worst recordings to capture a few more bucks from trusting punters :grr::yikes:

Anyone on the board admit to having held this this job??:laugh:

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

I too would go for the Kovacevich/Davis version, but of course, the pianist was Stephen Bishop in those days. :devil: :winkeye:

[Pianorak]

I too would go for the Kovacevich/Davis version, but of course, the pianist was Stephen Bishop in those days. :devil: :winkeye:

And at one time it was a certain Stephen Bishop-Kovacevich. :doh::winkeye:

[Mandryka]

And at one time it was a certain Stephen Bishop-Kovacevich. :doh::winkeye:

Yes, what was all that about?

I would have been VERY impressed if he'd changed his name to Stephen Bishop Argerich-Kovacevich!

[Ferretfancy]

I forget the details, but I think he made a transition to Kovacevich after some sort of family reconciliation with his father. He's such a fine Beethoven pianist. I recall seeing him in his Stephen Bishop days in lunchtime concerts at Bishopsgate Institute, anyone remember those?

[Norfolk Born]

Yes, what was all that about?

I would have been VERY impressed if he'd changed his name to Stephen Bishop Argerich-Kovacevich!
...or even Stephen Bishopsgate Argerich-Kovacevich...
I continue to live in hope that the master of the missing Eric Morecambe/Andrew Preview recording of the Schumann will come to light.

[Keraulophone]

I continue to live in hope that the master of the missing Eric Morecambe/Andrew Preview recording of the Schumann will come to light.

Their Grieg was issued in 1971 on the IME label with Preview conducting the SLO in Ebbay Road Studio No 1, produced by Raj Suvi Grubb, but the Schumann on the other side was rarely played because unfortunately the movements had been cut in the wrong order on the LP - a collector's item that can fetch three figures on eBay.

[Norfolk Born]

That would be three figures including the pence? Perhaps it might be reissued one day on Birllinat Cliscass or Nosax. :biggrin:

[Barbirollians]

I forgot to mention Michelangeli's astonishing Grieg concerto on BBC Legends - a rare recording that suggests that he was a man of flesh and blood after all.

[MickyD]

Without doubt, my favourite recording of the Schumann is that by Andreas Staier (c. 1850 J.B. Streicher), with Elysian Fields Orchestra directed by Philippe Herreweghe. It comes coupled with a decent performance of the 'Cello Concerto as played by Christophe Coin.

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41YHGXZX7CL._SL500_AA300_.jpg

I'm so glad you gave this recording a mention, Bryn - I love it too and it is a terrific bargain to boot. Wouldn't it be nice if Staier tackled the Grieg as well?

[Biffo]

I don't actually have the Schumann/Grieg combination at all. I have two Brendel performances of the Schumann, the first coupled with Weber's Konzertstuck, the second with the Fantasy in C (Op 17). I have the Grieg played by Backhaus (1933) coupled with Sibelius Symphony No 2, part of a Barbirolli box and also as part of the Complete Orchestral Works of Grieg (Zilberstein/Jarvi).

[Parry1912]

I can't claim to have heard half of those mentioned above but I would take Perahia ahead of Bishop/Bishop-Kovacevich/Kovacevich any time.

[Barbirollians]

How did I forget Solomon ? Must dig out by Eminence LP

[Sir Monty Golfear]

The Bishop / Davis version is a great performance.

Have you tried John Ogdon and Paavo Berglund ?

Or Jorge Bolet and Chailly ?.

Howard Shelley on Chandos is very good , but is very fast !

[amateur51]

I forgot to mention Michelangeli's astonishing Grieg concerto on BBC Legends - a rare recording that suggests that he was a man of flesh and blood after all.:ok:

[amateur51]

How did I forget Solomon ? Must dig out by Eminence LP:ok::ok:

[LeMartinPecheur]

Have you tried John Ogdon and Paavo Berglund ? I was given it by a neighbour: it's certainly worth hearing - once! SMG: your mention isn't surely a recommendation?? :yikes::steam::yikes:

[Sir Monty Golfear]

I was given it by a neighbour: it's certainly worth hearing - once! SMG: your mention isn't surely a recommendation?? :yikes::steam::yikes:

Just a listen ....not a recommendation !. Was giving you different options according to how you like your Schumann.

[Chris Newman]

My favourite Schumann PC comes as part of a generous package on a double Decca Eloquence.

Schumann:
Symphony No. 1 in B flat major, Op. 38 'Spring'
Symphony No. 2 in C major, Op. 61
Adagio and Allegro in A flat major, Op. 70 Edmund Leloir (horn)
Cello Concerto in A minor, Op. 129 Maurice Gendron (cello)
Piano Concerto in A minor, Op. 54 Dinu Lipatti (piano)
Manfred Overture
L’Orchestre de la Suisse Romande, Ernest Ansermet
To get Gendron and Lipatti on the same disc is luxury and the Lipatti is live.

For the Grieg I go for Leaf over Antsnest (as a friend calls him) with Mariss Jansons though I like his first version as well with the Bergen Philharmonic Orchestra and Ole Kristian Ruud.
.

[silvestrione]

My favourite Schumann PC comes as part of a generous package on a double Decca Eloquence.

Schumann:
Symphony No. 1 in B flat major, Op. 38 'Spring'
Symphony No. 2 in C major, Op. 61
Adagio and Allegro in A flat major, Op. 70 Edmund Leloir (horn)
Cello Concerto in A minor, Op. 129 Maurice Gendron (cello)
Piano Concerto in A minor, Op. 54 Dinu Lipatti (piano)
Manfred Overture
L’Orchestre de la Suisse Romande, Ernest Ansermet
To get Gendron and Lipatti on the same disc is luxury and the Lipatti is live.

For the Grieg I go for Leaf over Antsnest (as a friend calls him) with Mariss Jansons though I like his first version as well with the Bergen Philharmonic Orchestra and Ole Kristian Ruud.
.

I have this and value the package, but, be warned, the sound on the Lipatti is dire!

[Ferretfancy]

silvestrione

Yes, it's a great pity that the Lipatti with the Suisse Romande has awful sound, but there is his version with Karajan. The Ansermet performance of the 2nd Symphony was the first to make me realise how good the piece is, up to then I had never come to terms with it compared to the other three. I wish I could value the Manfred Overture, but maybe I'll get to appreciate it eventually.

[rauschwerk]

For the Grieg I go for Leaf over Antsnest (as a friend calls him) with Mariss Jansons though I like his first version as well with the Bergen Philharmonic Orchestra and Ole Kristian Ruud.

The Andsnes/Janssons has been justly compared to Lipatti's versions and I don't feel the need for other recordings on my shelves. (I once heard Andsnes say that his English friends call him 'leg over' Andsnes.)

I'm not really a fan of Brendel's later (digital era) work but he made an excellent recording of the Schumann with Abbado in the late 70s.

[Gordon]

For the Grieg, I've just remembered Clifford Curzon ................including a nice coupling with Franck's Symphonic Variations, Boult conducting.

That Franck piece with Curzon was Decca's first published stereo recording made in December '55 [the Grieg with Fjeldstad was from '59]. The first "serious" stereo recording was made in December '54 .....the Grieg PC with, guess who?....Winifred Atwell!! Available in the mono on a Pristine CD or download. Not a bad version.

[Sir Monty Golfear]

That Franck piece with Curzon was Decca's first published stereo recording made in December '55 [the Grieg with Fjeldstad was from '59]. The first "serious" stereo recording was made in December '54 .....the Grieg PC with, guess who?....Winifred Atwell!! Available in the mono on a Pristine CD or download. Not a bad version.

That's an interesting fact about Winifred Atwell .
As anyone mentioned Ivan Moravec on supraphon ?.....not sure if still available though.

[Chris Newman]

That Franck piece with Curzon was Decca's first published stereo recording made in December '55 [the Grieg with Fjeldstad was from '59]. The first "serious" stereo recording was made in December '54 .....the Grieg PC with, guess who?....Winifred Atwell!! Available in the mono on a Pristine CD or download. Not a bad version.

Here's a taster of the other Winifred Atwell:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=INKKluIRrzI

Winifred's Grieg PC is conducted by Stanford Robinson.

[Ferretfancy]

That Franck piece with Curzon was Decca's first published stereo recording made in December '55 [the Grieg with Fjeldstad was from '59]. The first "serious" stereo recording was made in December '54 .....the Grieg PC with, guess who?....Winifred Atwell!! Available in the mono on a Pristine CD or download. Not a bad version.

Gordon

Gordon
Decca's first ever stereo recording was Rimsky Korsakov's Antar, made in the Victoria Hall Geneva with Ansermet and the Suisse Romande on 12th /13th May 1954
The engineer was Roy Wallace, and the performance can be found on CD with fascinating background notes about the sessions. I'm not sure if the mono was issued on LXT, but the recording did did appear on vinyl coupled with The Golden Cockerel on an Eclipse LP. I don't know whether this was stereo or elecronically enhanced mono.

Listening to the CD,which is on Decca Legends, it still sounds remarkably good. Ansermet was said to have remarked that it like being there, and of course it is very close sound, but impressive still with a convincing stereo spread. The performance has been rivalled, but not beaten.

[PJPJ]

I did have the Eclipse LP, but no longer, and I'm pretty sure it was electronic stereo, as was Kna's Bruckner 5, both later released in real stereo when the stereo tapes turned up. I cannot find a stereo release of Winifred Atwell's Grieg PC, and it may be the tape is lost.

[Barbirollians]

The Lipatti/Ansermet is an amazing performance especially as apparently Lipatti dragged himself out of his sickbed with a high temperature to play it

[Sir Monty Golfear]

Gordon

Gordon
Decca's first ever stereo recording was Rimsky Korsakov's Antar, made in the Victoria Hall Geneva with Ansermet and the Suisse Romande on 12th /13th May 1954
The engineer was Roy Wallace, and the performance can be found on CD with fascinating background notes about the sessions. I'm not sure if the mono was issued on LXT, but the recording did did appear on vinyl coupled with The Golden Cockerel on an Eclipse LP. I don't know whether this was stereo or elecronically enhanced mono.

Listening to the CD,which is on Decca Legends, it still sounds remarkably good. Ansermet was said to have remarked that it like being there, and of course it is very close sound, but impressive still with a convincing stereo spread. The performance has been rivalled, but not beaten.

Did decca use RCA cutting gear under licence for this ?

[Ferretfancy]

Did decca use RCA cutting gear under licence for this ?

I'm not sure about the cutting gear, which would of course have been used to make masters much later than the original 1954 tape recording. The tape machine was made by Westrex. Stereo discs did not become available until 1958, although I did hear a demonstration at an audio fair in 1956 0r 1957. This used hill and dale and lateral.

The first stereo discs using the agreed 45/45 groove configuration were issued by Pye, and the first batch were produced with the channels out of phase. Pye had jumped the gun by a month or so, but it was the first Decca and RCA releases that made the impact. There was quite a rush to produce suitable pickup cartridges at a reasonable cost, such as the ceramics from Acos and superior moving iron models from Tannoy and others.
Happy Days !

[Sir Monty Golfear]

I'm not sure about the cutting gear, which would of course have been used to make masters much later than the original 1954 tape recording. The tape machine was made by Westrex. Stereo discs did not become available until 1958, although I did hear a demonstration at an audio fair in 1956 0r 1957. This used hill and dale and lateral.

The first stereo discs using the agreed 45/45 groove configuration were issued by Pye, and the first batch were produced with the channels out of phase. Pye had jumped the gun by a month or so, but it was the first Decca and RCA releases that made the impact. There was quite a rush to produce suitable pickup cartridges at a reasonable cost, such as the ceramics from Acos and superior moving iron models from Tannoy and others.
Happy Days !

Very interesting !. I read that some early recordings of Sir Alexander Gibson and the New Symphony orchestra of London where recorded by RCA and Licensed to Decca....I think one disc had the Orchestral Version of Liszt's Mephisto Waltz on it. I think it was because RCA had already got micro groove cutters, and Decca hadn't at that time.

[verismissimo]

Decca's first ever stereo recording was Rimsky Korsakov's Antar, made in the Victoria Hall Geneva with Ansermet and the Suisse Romande on 12th /13th May 1954
The engineer was Roy Wallace, and the performance can be found on CD with fascinating background notes about the sessions. I'm not sure if the mono was issued on LXT, but the recording did did appear on vinyl coupled with The Golden Cockerel on an Eclipse LP. I don't know whether this was stereo or elecronically enhanced mono.

Listening to the CD,which is on Decca Legends, it still sounds remarkably good. Ansermet was said to have remarked that it like being there, and of course it is very close sound, but impressive still with a convincing stereo spread. The performance has been rivalled, but not beaten.

I have that recording on a Decca 10 inch LP, LW 5326. Seems to be in mono. Wonderful performance.

[Pianorak]

Re the Schumann PC: A bit surprised that no one has mentioned the Gieseking recording with the Philharmonia Orchestra conducted by von Karajan. Have just given my old Columbia LP (33C 1033) another outing - an excellent performance IMV.:ok:

[amateur51]

Re the Schumann PC: A bit surprised that no one has mentioned the Gieseking recording with the Philharmonia Orchestra conducted by von Karajan. Have just given my old Columbia LP (33C 1033) another outing - an excellent performance IMV.:ok:I have heard several Giesking recordings of the Schumann over the years and have always found his playing to be conversatiional, give & take with the orchestra, rather attractive.

I hope that your re-listening provides the pleasure that you're anticipating, Pianorak :smiley:

[Sir Monty Golfear]

Re the Schumann PC: A bit surprised that no one has mentioned the Gieseking recording with the Philharmonia Orchestra conducted by von Karajan. Have just given my old Columbia LP (33C 1033) another outing - an excellent performance IMV.:ok:

I believe EMI remastered this recording and issued it on cd. May well be still available.

[Barbirollians]

I believe EMI remastered this recording and issued it on cd. May well be still available.

I see MM in Gramophone did not like it back in 1954 saying he skated over the surface of the concerto and much preferred Lipatti and Kempff.

[Ferretfancy]

Very interesting !. I read that some early recordings of Sir Alexander Gibson and the New Symphony orchestra of London where recorded by RCA and Licensed to Decca....I think one disc had the Orchestral Version of Liszt's Mephisto Waltz on it. I think it was because RCA had already got micro groove cutters, and Decca hadn't at that time.

Sir Monty,
It was slightly the other way round. The originals were recorded by Decca engineers and issued on the RCA label, with Decca re-issuing them later on their own label. A good example is the superb Pierre Monteux version of the Enigma variations. I used to know an older disc cutting engineer who worked at the Hampstead studios, and he told me that the the RCA LPs were cut from tapes that had been given a frequency boost at about 7k because that's what the Americans liked.

Alexander Gibson's Mephisto Waltz was another good example from a disc called Witch's Brew, again released later on Decca World Of. This is a famous disc loved by audiophiles, and I once saw a mint copy on offer for £200 !

We have to thank "Wilkie", Kenneth Wilkinson of Decca for many of these records, including the marvellous recordings he made for Reader's Digest.

[umslopogaas]

#56 Ferretfancy. 'Witches' Brew' (RCA SB 2020) is indeed an audiophile treasure, but it is very hard to predict what you would have to pay for a copy these days. I used to keep notes on prices achieved on ebay and back in 2009 there were three sold, at £71, £254 and £150. The 2006 Price Guide to Rare Classical Records (I wish they'd update it) says £225. These days the market for classical vinyl is in decline, the old generation (like me) is dying out and the next lot arent interested in vinyl. I'm going to will mine to my nephew, with the warning that if he wants to sell it he had better be quick, because soon there'll be no-one left to buy it.

Its a wonderful record, must get it out and give it a play.

[Sir Monty Golfear]

Sir Monty,
It was slightly the other way round. The originals were recorded by Decca engineers and issued on the RCA label, with Decca re-issuing them later on their own label. A good example is the superb Pierre Monteux version of the Enigma variations. I used to know an older disc cutting engineer who worked at the Hampstead studios, and he told me that the the RCA LPs were cut from tapes that had been given a frequency boost at about 7k because that's what the Americans liked.

Alexander Gibson's Mephisto Waltz was another good example from a disc called Witch's Brew, again released later on Decca World Of. This is a famous disc loved by audiophiles, and I once saw a mint copy on offer for £200 !

We have to thank "Wilkie", Kenneth Wilkinson of Decca for many of these records, including the marvellous recordings he made for Reader's Digest.


Thanks for the reply, I knew I was on the right lines, but as you kindly pointed out , it was he other way round!.

Yes I had a copy on the Decca world of series. I to have seen the original witches brew record going for good money online.
My first versions of Rachmaninov piano concertos 1&2 were Peter Katin On the World of series too.

Kenneth Wilkinson gave us some splendid classic recordings. The Readers Digest / World Record Club set of Rachmaninov concertos with Earl Wild , Jascha Horenstein and the RPO still rate amongst my favourites for recording quality and performance. There is something very special about them.

[Ferretfancy]

Sir Monty
I picked up a mint condition box of the Reader's Digest LPs in the Oxfam shop in Marylebone - £4 for 6 discs! The title was Classical Piano Magic, and it includes other great Earl Wild performances, including Franck's Symphonic Variations, Pictures at an Exhibition, the Dohnanyi Nursery Variations and many more. The set only includes Rachmaninov 2 & 4, both conducted by Horenstein.
This was my best bargain of 2011!

[Sir Monty Golfear]

Sir Monty
I picked up a mint condition box of the Reader's Digest LPs in the Oxfam shop in Marylebone - £4 for 6 discs! The title was Classical Piano Magic, and it includes other great Earl Wild performances, including Franck's Symphonic Variations, Pictures at an Exhibition, the Dohnanyi Nursery Variations and many more. The set only includes Rachmaninov 2 & 4, both conducted by Horenstein.
This was my best bargain of 2011!


Hi Ferretfancy,

That was a real steal! ...great that it was mint too!.

I didn't know that Earl Wild had recorded the pictures. What a great pianist he was.


Hi Fe

[Pianorak]

The title was Classical Piano Magic, and it includes other great Earl Wild performances, including Franck's Symphonic Variations, Pictures at an Exhibition, the Dohnanyi Nursery Variations and many more. The set only includes Rachmaninov 2 & 4, both conducted by Horenstein.
Got that when it first came out - probably paid the full whack! But no regrets.

[Pianorak]

. . . I hope that your re-listening provides the pleasure that you're anticipating, Pianorak :smiley:
Well, yes and no. I suppose one will always have a tender spot for a piece one hears for the very first time. Ou sont les neiges d'antant! :whistle:

[Gordon]

Gordon

Gordon
Decca's first ever stereo recording was Rimsky Korsakov's Antar, made in the Victoria Hall Geneva with Ansermet and the Suisse Romande on 12th /13th May 1954
The engineer was Roy Wallace, and the performance can be found on CD with fascinating background notes about the sessions. I'm not sure if the mono was issued on LXT, but the recording did did appear on vinyl coupled with The Golden Cockerel on an Eclipse LP. I don't know whether this was stereo or elecronically enhanced mono.

Listening to the CD,which is on Decca Legends, it still sounds remarkably good. Ansermet was said to have remarked that it like being there, and of course it is very close sound, but impressive still with a convincing stereo spread. The performance has been rivalled, but not beaten.

The first published Stereo I mentioned was of course a Kingsway Hall first not a Decca first which I should have said so thanks Ferret for that clarifiction. These were Decca’s first stereo recordings in Geneva, note the highlighted LXT of Antar you queried [with thanks to Philip Stuart's discography]:

Pr: James Walker Eng: Gil Went (m), Roy Wallace (s)
[a] 13 & (14-26) May 1954 Victoria Hall, Geneva
Suisse Romande Orchestra, Ernest Ansermet
[a] RIMSKY-KORSAKOV Symphony No.2 Op.9 “Antar” SAR857-62
[b] BALAKIREV Tamara SAR881-84
[c] LIADOV Baba-Yaga Op.56 SAR885
[d] LIADOV Kikimora Op.63 SAR886-87
[e] LIADOV Eight Russian Folksongs Op.58 SAR888-91
[f] GLAZUNOV Stenka Razin Op.13 SAR901-04
[b-e] (Oct54) LXT2966; (Jan55) LL1068 = (nr ’59) CS6167,
(Oct68) STS15066,
[B][af] (Nov54) LXT2982; (Dec54) LL1060,
[f] (Jun72) ECS641; (Mar74) STS15240,
[b] (May72) ECS642,
[cd] (Jun74) ECS735,
[e] (Oct74) ECS742,
[f] (Apr91) 430 348.2DM,
[a] (Mar02) 470 253.2DM,
[d] (Dec06) 475 8140DC6,
[c-f] (Sep08) Australian Eloquence 480 0038,
[b] (Jly08) Australian Eloquence 48

note the splendid Australians with their enterprising Eloquence label on CD.

This list may now be a bit out of date. Philip doesn't list your Eclipse [ECS] LP but there is a Golden Cockerel from Ansermet in Geneva from 1947. As with the Atwell Grieg, not many of these early stereo recordings actually made it to issued discs [superseded by later tapings?] and were subsequently issued on budget labels [ECS] sometimes as electronic stereo made from the mono suggesting some problems with the stereos eg incomplete sets of usable takes but your Legends release suggests otherwise. It seems to have been a while until Decca really got regular stereo LP issues along with monos from this early period. Same applies to some extent at EMI but they had Stereosonic tapes as a means of getting the stereo material out before LP stereo discs were standardised in 1958.

[Ferretfancy]

Gordon,
Thanks for those fascinating details, I know that there were lots of teething troubles with the earliest releases, and the first stereo cutter heads gave a lot of trouble.
As for the stereosonic tapes from EMI, they did not sell well, as so few people could afford stereo tape machines. At the beginning of this thread we were discussing the Grieg and Schumann concertos, with mention of Solomon's performances. I visited the old HMV Oxford Street shop with a friend in ( I think, late 1956 ) and in their large upstairs showroom heard the Solomon Grieg in stereo. There were two huge consoles, one housing the tape deck and a loudspeaker, and the other the amplifier and second speaker.
We were bowled over by the sound, but I can't remember how much the equipment cost ! You would need a small hall to do it justice. The other tape on demonstration was the Vittorio Gui version of The Marriage of Figaro, and we were asked to listen carefully as Cherubino jumped out of the window. Both these sets have remained in circulation in one form or another ever since.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

I know that normally the opening "Has anyone mentioned yet the performance by ... " is followed by a series of replies pointing out the several references to the recording then mentioned, but nevertheless ...

Has anyone mentioned yet the Grieg/Schumann coupling by Shura Chekassky with Boult and the LPO?
This was my first encounter with the Schumann (I knew the Grieg from school Music lessons); bought whilst on holiday in Bournemouth in 1974 along with Tchaik Pathetique (Boston SO/Leinsdorf - both on budget MfP: even cheaper than CfP*! Wonderfully lyrical, engaged performances that put the works firmly in the "Favorites" list of my memory. :magic:

(*= IIRC, 70p as opposed to 85p!)

[Sir Monty Golfear]

I know that normally the opening "Has anyone mentioned yet the performance by ... " is followed by a series of replies pointing out the several references to the recording then mentioned, but nevertheless ...

Has anyone mentioned yet the Grieg/Schumann coupling by Shura Chekassky with Boult and the LPO?
This was my first encounter with the Schumann (I knew the Grieg from school Music lessons); bought whilst on holiday in Bournemouth in 1974 along with Tchaik Pathetique (Boston SO/Leinsdorf - both on budget MfP: even cheaper than CfP*! Wonderfully lyrical, engaged performances that put the works firmly in the "Favorites" list of my memory. :magic:

(*= IIRC, 70p as opposed to 85p!)

Yes , I had a copy of that record too......I wonder why EMI have not reissued it on CFP?.....my pressing was terrible, so a Cd reissue would be most welcome. As a sideline, I seem to remember that I also had a copy of Tchaikovsky 1st with Boult and the LPO . Cherkassky was one of my favourites.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

As a sideline, I seem to remember that I also had a copy of Tchaikovsky 1st with Boult and the LPO . Cherkassky was one of my favourites.
:ok:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x91Mus1teyE

[Sir Monty Golfear]

:ok:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x91Mus1teyE

Brilliant !!.

[Pianorak]

. . . As a sideline, I seem to remember that I also had a copy of Tchaikovsky 1st with Boult and the LPO . Cherkassky was one of my favourites.
As another aside, there's Cherkassky playing Tchaikovsky 1st with Berliner Philharmoniker under L. Ludwig (on a 2CD set with Franz Liszt No. 1 with Fistoulari conducting the Philharmonia Orchestra. CD2 has Gieseking playing the Grieg PC and Franck Variations symphoniques with Karajan conducting the Philharmonia Orchestra).

[Sir Monty Golfear]

As another aside, there's Cherkassky playing Tchaikovsky 1st with Berliner Philharmoniker under L. Ludwig (on a 2CD set with Franz Liszt No. 1 with Fistoulari conducting the Philharmonia Orchestra. CD2 has Gieseking playing the Grieg PC and Franck Variations symphoniques with Karajan conducting the Philharmonia Orchestra).

It would be good to be able to get them on cd, or as a download .

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Of course, when Mr Kovacevitch made his famous recording, he was called Stephen Bishop.

But that doesn't sound so grand...

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Sviatoslav Richter (piano), Orchestre National de l’Opéra de Monte-Carlo, Lovro von Matacic
Krystian Zimerman (piano), Berliner Philharmoniker, Herbert von Karajan
Stephen Kovacevich (piano), BBC Symphony Orchestra, Sir Colin Davis
Howard Shelley (piano and conductor), Orchestra of Opera North
Leif Ove Andsnes (piano), Berliner Philharmoniker, Mariss Jansons
Lars Vogt (piano)City of Birmingham Orchestra, Sir Simon Rattle
Tatyana Zagorovskaya (piano)/Pavel Egorov (piano), St. Petersburg State Academic Capella Orchestra, Cesare Croci
Dinu Lipatti (piano), Philharmonia Orchestra, Alceo Galliera/ Philharmonia Orchestra, Herbert von Karajan

[Gordon]

Gordon,
Thanks for those fascinating details, I know that there were lots of teething troubles with the earliest releases, and the first stereo cutter heads gave a lot of trouble.

Yes, I'm nor surprised!! The mount of power needed for moving coil stereo cutting heads is large and those early ones had massive magnets suspended from the ceiling!! Decca [I think] had a hand in inventing half speed mastering way back then to try and deal with this problem. I think EMI's Blumlein cutter from 1933 used moving coil cutters which are low impedance and would have needed a lot of current to drive the cutting tool and also a large magnet to give a strong field. Try and make that lot linear and resonance free over a wide frequency range!!

Mono cutters first used in the 1920s were made by Westrex but mechanically damped and Bumlein got around their patents with electrical damping and saved EMI a fortune in royalties. Westrex tried the same trick with stereo -- but see below:

Try this for some more info on Decca Stereo:

http://www.gramophone.net/Issue/Page/April%201971/44/833646/ARTHUR+HADDY,+F.I.E.R.E#header-logo

or here

http://www.arsc-audio.org/journals/v18/v18n1-3p4-19.pdf

But beware this one [despite the author's connections with Decca] has a couple of small errors relating to the role Decca [ie Arthur Haddy Chief Engineer] had in standardisation of stereo in 1958. Apparently Westrex who are credited [even today, in the US, RCA had no excuse because they were partners of EMI in the 30s] as having invented the stereo LP disc had no idea that EMI/Blumlein had patented the system that was adopted in 1933 and were trying to bully the industry into large royalties but Haddy showed them a copy of the patent!!


At the beginning of this thread we were discussing the Grieg and Schumann concertos, with mention of Solomon's performances.

Solomon's record of the Grieg was made at Abbey Road in September '56 so was relatively early [18 months after their first release] but there are many from that era that have impressive stereo sound, at least in the original tapes. Try Giulini's Firebird from Kingsway also '56.

[Gordon]

Has anyone mentioned yet the Grieg/Schumann coupling by Shura Chekassky with Boult and the LPO? This was my first encounter with the Schumann (I knew the Grieg from school Music lessons); bought whilst on holiday in Bournemouth in 1974 along with Tchaik Pathetique (Boston SO/Leinsdorf - both on budget MfP: even cheaper than CfP*! Wonderfully lyrical, engaged performances that put the works firmly in the "Favorites" list of my memory. :magic:

(*= IIRC, 70p as opposed to 85p!)

That recording didn't get wide publication. It was made for World Records [then an EMI subsidiary]. Here's the discographic detail:

WORLD RECORD CLUB
*****************
17 & 22 November 1965 Abbey Road Studio 1
Adrian Boult
Shura Cherkassky (piano)
399 GRIEG Piano Concerto in A minor Op.16
SCHUMANN Piano Concerto in A minor Op.54
(Nov66) ST559, (Jun72) ZCWR559 and Y8WR559
(Oct72) MFP57002
(...76) SIT60037
(Aug78) ZCCOB656
(...79) Chevron CHVL170 and in 5LP pack CHVLC1002

From the weird catalogue numbers you'll see that it wasn't put out on major labels. The MFP seems to be the only familiar one. However, somewhere out there in the world of download....who knows? If you value this version hang on to that LP!!!

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Thanks, Gordon! :ale:

[Sir Monty Golfear]

Yes, I'm nor surprised!! The mount of power needed for moving coil stereo cutting heads is large and those early ones had massive magnets suspended from the ceiling!! Decca [I think] had a hand in inventing half speed mastering way back then to try and deal with this problem. I think EMI's Blumlein cutter from 1933 used moving coil cutters which are low impedance and would have needed a lot of current to drive the cutting tool and also a large magnet to give a strong field. Try and make that lot linear and resonance free over a wide frequency range!!

Mono cutters first used in the 1920s were made by Westrex but mechanically damped and Bumlein got around their patents with electrical damping and saved EMI a fortune in royalties. Westrex tried the same trick with stereo -- but see below:

Try this for some more info on Decca Stereo:

http://www.gramophone.net/Issue/Page/April%201971/44/833646/ARTHUR+HADDY,+F.I.E.R.E#header-logo

or here

http://www.arsc-audio.org/journals/v18/v18n1-3p4-19.pdf

But beware this one [despite the author's connections with Decca] has a couple of small errors relating to the role Decca [ie Arthur Haddy Chief Engineer] had in standardisation of stereo in 1958. Apparently Westrex who are credited [even today, in the US, RCA had no excuse because they were partners of EMI in the 30s] as having invented the stereo LP disc had no idea that EMI/Blumlein had patented the system that was adopted in 1933 and were trying to bully the industry into large royalties but Haddy showed them a copy of the patent!!



Solomon's record of the Grieg was made at Abbey Road in September '56 so was relatively early [18 months after their first release] but there are many from that era that have impressive stereo sound, at least in the original tapes. Try Giulini's Firebird from Kingsway also '56.

Fascinating! What a great thread . This is what is great about the Internet. Thanks , Ian

[amateur51]

I used to have several recordings on LP of Grieg's piano concerto played by his great friend Percy Grainger. They were great fun and I loved them dearly.

The only one I can find currently is this one, a live performance conducted by Stokowski

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Piano-Concerto-Op-16-Molly-Shore/dp/B000059LYK/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1335549561&sr=8-2

Some great individual touches :biggrin: - it's available to listen to on Spotify

spotify:album:4QLUlJpjr7Fr3UZ9ulqhnS

[Barbirollians]

To my shame I find I have the Andsnes version . I do not really remember buying it let alone listening to it . I am a great admirer of his work generally so must give it a spin.

[Sir Monty Golfear]

I have just found the Solomon , Greig / Schumann Piano concertos on itunes as a download. £5.99 for the album .

[Barbirollians]

Splendid performances and they are also on Testament with his recording if Liszt's Hungarian Fantasia

[Sir Monty Golfear]

A bit late in the day but have you tried Havard Gimse / Royal Scottish National Orchestra / Bjarte Engeset playing the Grieg on Naxos ?.....I find it is a very listenable account.

[Barbirollians]

I have just realised I had the Perahia /Davis set on cassette but as I have not listened to a cassette for about 10 years I had forgotten it . Played it this morning on the cassette player on the kitchen mini hifi . Two absolutely textbook performances . The Grieg utterly full of poetry in a way that wholly escaped the young pianist in YMOTY to my ears and the Schumann is a particular joy from start to finish every note just sounds right.