Opera on 3 - Live from the Met

[James Wonnacott]

I enjoy the music but is it part of the deal that we have to endure the ghastly American accent of the presenter?

[Richard Tarleton]

In a word, yes - this is as it says on the tin, a live broadcast which comes as a package. Margaret Juntwait succeeded Peter Allen a few years ago - he too was smoothness personified and could be regarded as an acquired taste, you either like their style or you don't :erm:

[kernelbogey]

I'm fairly sure there was a time - 20 or more years ago - when Radio 3 did its own commentary, and Peter Allen was faded out and in, before and after. I don't mind Margaret Juntwait too much - but the dialogue between her and Ira is so patently scripted that I find it very artificial.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Having the authentic voice of the American who is introducing the work from the Met is hardly something we can complain about. Would we expect an American to introduce Proms broadcasts over there? I think not.

[kernelbogey]

Agreed. We also save ourselves much anguish if we recognise that American is now the dominant world dialect of English!

[Cavaradossi]

Not this old chestnut again. Of course it's part of the package. If you don't like it listen via France Musique, they talk over the Met Presenters.

Also good for listening again, they tend to cover most of the Met Season.

[kernelbogey]

Not this old chestnut again.

Filbert? :winkeye:

[Don Basilio]

Wasn't Ira Madame Vera Galuppi-Borsch in the dear old Gran Scena Opera Company?

I just lurve the presenters. It is probably my memory playing tricks, but I'm sure I remember Peter Allen commenting on some soprano singing Aida at the Met and then later singing someone else at Chicago or wherever: "Today a slave girl: tomorrow a princess. That's opera." Wonderful.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Agreed. We also save ourselves much anguish if we recognise that American is now the dominant world dialect of English!That's only because there are more Americans than British. Recognising this does not diminish the anguish :sadface::winkeye:

[Flosshilde]

I enjoy the music but is it part of the deal that we have to endure the ghastly American accent of the presenter?

Well, as it's from the Met in New York, New York, USA, the accent is presumably non-negotiable :doh:

[Cavaradossi]

[QUOTE=Don Basilio;36902]Wasn't Ira Madame Vera Galuppi-Borsch in the dear old Gran Scena Opera Company?

For Don B, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4YHpwgw0__w&feature=%20related

[Flosshilde]

Wasn't Ira Madame Vera Galuppi-Borsch in the dear old Gran Scena Opera Company?

Yes he was. She was the world's first & (as far as I know), only 'traumatic soprano'

[Flosshilde]

Go to http://www.for3.org/forums/showthread.php?1450-Opera-on-3-Live-from-the-Met-Rossini-s-quot-Armida- if you want a discussion of the opera, rather than moans about the presenters.

[Caliban]

I enjoy the music but is it part of the deal that we have to endure the ghastly American accent of the presenter?
:laugh:

:doh:

[Don Basilio]

Thank you Cavaradossi. Memories of the Bloomsbury Theatre flooding back.

[marthe]

Would we all prefer the days of yore when Milton Cross announced "live from the stage of the Metropolitan Opera..." MC and the live Met broadcast was a fixture of my chilhood Saturday afternoons. Dad was a great fan of both the Met and Cross. I'm not sure that he was keen on the Margaret and Ira show. Juntwait's accent is standard broadcaster's American. Siff is very New York, though a little precious to boot.

[Don Basilio]

. Juntwait's accent is standard broadcaster's American.

And nothing ghastly about it. It's just downright prejudice to object to it.

I will admit to a negative reaction at the lovely Rene Fleming doing to continuity during a Met live cinema relay. It's jolly professional of her to do it live, but there was an air of un restrained gush which if I didn't find very funny, I'd find irritating.

I saw a live transmission of King Lear from the Donmar introduced by Emma Freud, who was very restrained by comparison. That struck me as indicating a difference between an American and British presentation far more significant than the vowel sounds.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Go to http://www.for3.org/forums/showthread.php?1450-Opera-on-3-Live-from-the-Met-Rossini-s-quot-Armida- if you want a discussion of the opera, rather than moans about the presenters. Yes. I considered merging the two threads, but this one was not specifically about the Rossini broadcast, so perhaps it was better left as it was. :erm:

[kernelbogey]

And nothing ghastly about it. It's just downright prejudice to object to it.

If you listen to, say, In Tune, there are innumerable interviews with musicians whose first language is not English. Frequently their intonation, and often vocabulary, is heavily influenced by American English. This hasn't happened just because 'there are more Americans' - it's the convergence of a variety of political and economic factors. One factor is that English is a lingua franca, and you often hear it (say on the Tube in London) being used between two people whose first languages are different and who have English in common as a second language.

England has not been in charge of the English language for a long time: in my opinion, we'd better get used to that.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

England has not been in charge of the English language for a long time: in my opinion, we'd better get used to that.So are you suggesting that the Americans are "in charge" of the English language? I think not.

- it's the convergence of a variety of political and economic factors. Certainly when I was in Offenbach, Germany in 1962, which was in the American sector, the local Germans spoke English with a pronounced American accent, including the ones who had learnt their English as prisoners-of-war in England.

[kernelbogey]

So are you suggesting that the Americans are "in charge" of the English language?
Mais non: I'm saying that we're likely to hear a lot of English with vocabulary, accent and intonation - e.g. from presenters at the Met - which is different from the English dialect (and I think we're now speaking just one of many dialects). It behoves us, IMHO, not to be too snooty about other dialects.
My answer to your question, therefore, is that the rest of the world (alas) is in charge :sadface:.

[Estelle]

How we speak our native language is so much a function of our environment--our family, our immediate friends, and the place in which we live. The quality of our language is determined by the education level of our family and, later, by our own education and values.

American, Canadian, Australian, and British English (to name a few) all come in a variety of pronunciations determined by education, values, and localion within the country. As an individual American, I may find certain pronunciations of American English rather unlovely; I might also find certain pronunciations of British English grating to the ear. It's a cultural thing. As I matured, I learned to overcome the irritation of hearing my native tongue spoken in a way different from my way and to attend to the message.

Mr. Wonnacott, you should take notice that you are writing on the internet.

[marthe]

Estelle, thank you for your very sensible post. I quite agree. I am always intrigued by, rather than repulsed by, the variety of accents in the English-speaking world. In my own small community we've got English spoken by locals and English spoken by people from England, South Africa, Australia, NZ, India, Ireland, Scotland, Wales, Guatemala, Germany, France, Canada etc. I agree, the message is much more important than the packaging. There is no need to be snooty about accents. Perhaps it's more important for native English speakers, of whatever persuasion, to become bilingual or multilingual...and more open-minded. :biggrin:

[Don Basilio]

And thank you from me as well, estelle.

[Estelle]

You are welcome, Marthe and Don Basilio. It is understandable how one might be irritated by a pronunciation which sounds unattractive, but it is quite another matter to express it in such a hostile way on an international forum.

[Flosshilde]

And thank you from me, as well, Estelle. There are American accents that I like, & some that I don't, just as there are some English (& Scottish, & Irish) accents that I likie & some that I don't like. Actually, there are some that I find very seductive, & could listen to for hours :)

[StephenO]

To criticise American English is to criticise the language of Shakespeare since, as far as we can tell, Elizabethan vowel sounds were far closer to their modern American equivalents than to present day British English. That goes for much of the vocabulary too. Shakespeare would have had no qualms about a word like "gotten".

[marthe]

Thank you StephenO. The purest form of Elizabethan English is said to exist in remote parts of Appalachia. Whenever I hear Appalachian folk singer Jean Ritchie sing a ballad, I feel that I'm hearing a voice that belongs to another time. Many of the first European settlers of New England were from East Anglia. I'm sure the famed,and much parodied, Boston accent (pahk the cah in Havahd yahd) retains traces of the accents of 17th-century settlers such as John Winthrop (Groton Manor, Suffolk), and Anne Hutchinson (Boston, Lincs.) Other parts of the US were settled by immigrants for whom English was a second language. Up until WW1, German was the second language in the US and there were almost as many German-language newspapers as there were English papers. Now, Spanish (Latin-American Spanish) is the second language and ambitious parents in wealthy suburbs are pushing for Mandarin classes in public (tax-supported) schools!

[Flosshilde]

"the famed,and much parodied, Boston accent (pahk the cah in Havahd yahd) "

Don't know about East Anglian - it sounds more like the Sloane Ranger & Hooray Henry. Purest Chelsea :laugh:

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Most world English accents are to be found in the British Isles. American English is basically Irish, while South African, Australian and N.Z. English are broadly Cockney.

[marthe]

Flosshilde: "pahk the cah..." is a bit of a joke. Cabots, Lowells and Lodges sound nothing like Sloane Rangers and Hooray Henrys nor do they sound like JFK. The younger generation has lost the non-rhotic speech that is often imitated when Hollywood wants to do a Boston, or generic New England accent. I recently saw a film in which Minnie Driver puts on a thick Boston accent. The character she portrays doesn't speak that way in real life. Now Rodeyelin, where I live, is another story... :laugh:

EA: the first settlers of New England were not Irish. Large-scale Irish immigration didn't begin in my area until the late 1820s. The division between Yankee Boston Brahmins (aka the Codfish Aristocracy, decendents of Puritans) and the Boston Irish (Roman Catholics) is the stuff of legend and literature. The Scots-Irish settled the back country of the Middle-Atlantic states and the south. Daniel Boone, Davy Crockett, Andrew Jackson were all of Scots-Irish descent. The prairie states were settled by Germans, Scandinavians, Bohemians among other groups. New York has its Dutch legacy. My maternal grandmother from the Bronx would always berl the kettle for a cup of tea with the goils. :biggrin:

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

EA: the first settlers of New England were not Irish. Large-scale Irish immigration didn't begin in my area until the late 1820s. The division between Yankee Boston Brahmins (aka the Codfish Aristocracy, decendents of Puritans) and the Boston Irish (Roman Catholics) is the stuff of legend and literature. The Scots-Irish settled the back country of the Middle-Atlantic states and the south. Daniel Boone, Davy Crockett, Andrew Jackson were all of Scots-Irish descent. The prairie states were settled by Germans, Scandinavians, Bohemians among other groups. New York has its Dutch legacy. My maternal grandmother from the Bronx would always berl the kettle for a cup of tea with the goils. :biggrin:That's fascinating. I always find this aspect of history to be be particularly interesting.

[marthe]

Thanks, EA. I was afraid I'd taken this thread way off topic. I'll have to put my soapbox in the very back of the cupboard!

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

marthe, I've never found your posts less than illuminating. :smiley:

[marthe]

EA, you are a gentleman.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

:smiley:

[Eudaimonia]

Thanks, EA. I was afraid I'd taken this thread way off topic. I'll have to put my soapbox in the very back of the cupboard! Don't pack up yet--this has to be one of the nicest and most worthwhile thread derails I've ever seen. :laugh:

Curious, have you ever had reason to be self-conscious of your accent to the point that you did something to reduce or eliminate it? It was always such a huge issue for me...I remember being dragged to family reunions as a kid and swearing I was never, ever going to sound like those people as long as I lived. For some reason, my immediate family never had a strong accent, but after I left home, I worked HARD on obliterating any trace of it to avoid prejudice.

Here's one for the RP speakers: if RP didn't really come into its own until the 1950s, what was Leslie Howard-as-Henry Higgins teaching Eliza in Pygmalion in 1938? And precisely how dire is Wendy Hiller's fake cockney accent--and why? :biggrin:

PYGMALION (1938)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D4l3idZqpbI

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

RP is a variable commodity. Estuary English has largely taken over - even the Royal family has moved in this direction. D'Oyly Carte was about as RP as it was possible to be ("thet men" = "that man", etc.) but even this holy relic has passed by.

My own prejudices are not based upon when you say "grass" or "grahss" (I say the former) but upon spelling, punctuation and grammar.

[marthe]

Euda: I've never consciously tried to eliminate my accent. My entire life I've been surrounded by people who have spoken "accented" English. My paternal grandparents spoke excellent British English but with a Belgian accent (nothing like David Suchet as Hercule Poirot.) My father and mother spent formative years in/near NYC so brought those accents with them to New England. English was actually Dad's third language which he learned after immigrating to the US from Belgium. He was young enough to pick it up without a trace of a foreign accent though his older sisters always spoke an accented English. My husband is from Lancashire but his mother was originally from East Prussia (she was a war bride) and she spoke an interesting combination of Lancs with a German accent. His accent has softened over the thirty-odd years we've lived in the States. We've many friends who are ex-pats from GB/Commonwealth and who represent a wide range of British-English accents. I'm not a linguist but find accents, vocabulary, and dialect very interesting.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

marthe, Lancashire accents fascinate me. I can generally identify which town people are from in Lancashire, Greater Manchester and Merseyside. I scored a real "coup" recently when I met someone who I recognised as coming from the Saddleworth area and correctly identified her as originating from Delph, a small village near Saddleworth.
You appear to be something of a true "world citizen".

[kernelbogey]

I consider myself reasonably familiar with US pronunciation, having both relatives and friends in the US. I find the American accents employed in BBC radio plays usually excruciatingly false. I believe this to be because Equity will not allow US actors to play these parts, so we get British actors faking a US accent. My explanation may be wrong but I find the result painful. Any comments from US listeners?

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

I consider myself reasonably familiar with US pronunciation, having both relatives and friends in the US. I find the American accents employed in BBC radio plays usually excruciatingly false. I believe this to be because Equity will not allow US actors to play these parts, so we get British actors faking a US accent. My explanation may be wrong but I find the result painful. Doesn't the same thing happen the other way round too? Renee Zellweger, Demi Moore, Jodie Foster, Meryl Streep and Gwyneth Paltrow all spring to mind. The worst ever were Charlton Heston as General Gordon in "Kartoum" and Dick Van Dyke in "Mary Poppins" and "Chitty Chitty Bang Bang".

[marthe]

Kernel Bogey: I have often wondered about the fake American accents in Radio 4 drama...now I know the answer. We used to play "spot the fake American accent" whenever we listened to BBC radio dramas! Of course that was more than 30 years ago and things may have improved! Yes they were and, presumably, still are "excruciatingly false." That being said, I recently watched Amistad, a movie that takes place in 1830s New England (and partly filmed in my home town!) in which British actors such as Anthony Hopkins, Peter Firth, and Jeremy Northam portray Americans of that time. Hopkins does a wonderful job of interpreting crusty old Bostonian John Quincy Adams. I suppose the idea was to find actors who could approximate the speech of the New Republic; think of Gone With the Wind with Vivian Leigh as Scarlett O'Hara and Leslie Howard as Ashley Wilkes. Their Civil War-era southern accents are more than plausible!

On the other hand, we have the Dick Van Dyke debacle in Mary Poppins.The ladies have tried hard and, to my ear, have done a creditable job with English accents. Many Americans go gaga over English accents as long as they conform to recognizable types. If it isn't English as spoken by Alistair Cooke, the Beatles, or (forgive me) Dick Van Dyke, they can't quite cope. My husband, with his now dilute Lancashire accent, is often asked if he is from Australia! :laugh:

EA: you are kind...and would that I were a world citizen. I'm just lucky to be the daughter, wife, daughter-in-law, and sister-in-law of immigrants. Where I live, they joke about needing a passport to go over the bridge to mainland Rhode Island (we are in the "Rhode Island" part of the state.) So much for being a world citizen!

[kernelbogey]

Marthe - thank you. There are some younger actors who are excellent at American accents. In A Single Man, which stars Colin Firth as an ex-pat Brit, there is a student, Kenny who befriends him. I was astonished to discover that the actor Nicholas Hoult, is British, so convincing was his performance. There is also a young British woman actor who astonished me in the same way, but I can't recall her name or the movie at the moment. But on the other hand we had a trail on R3 recently for a play with awful 'southern' accents. I think it must be harder to maintain for a radio play probably recorded in long takes than for a film with its short takes.

[marthe]

Interesting point about radio plays vs. films. I'm sure production logistics make a difference. I'm glad to hear that younger British actors/actresses have mastered the American accent! The American accent is a moving target and has changed considerably since the golden days of Hollywood when the accent heard in films of the 30s and 40s was probably closer to a mid-Atlantic accent making it easier for British actors to sound American when necessary. We would be in good shape if Hollywood would just do a creditable job with US regional accents! Anyway, back to the beginning: Margaret and Ira are not going to change. If one doesn't like the live commentary from the Met, turn the volume off until the next act begins. I've listened to the quiz for many a year and am not about to give it up!

[tsuji-giri]

That's only because there are more Americans than British. Recognising this does not diminish the anguish :sadface::winkeye:

On this basis, wouldn't the Indian version of English be the dominant world dialect? Followed possibly by Pakistan?

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Certainly worth thinking about, but as far as I know, no Indian has attempted to change the English language by unilaterally changing thousands of spellings.

[Don Basilio]

Certainly worth thinking about, but as far as I know, no Indian has attempted to change the English language by unilaterally changing thousands of spellings.

I understood that Samuel Johnson and Noah Webster both produced dictionaries at a time when spelling was not standardized, and so set the future British/American usage from the options that were available then.

I've never noticed that differences in American and British spelling reflect differences in pronunciation. Any comments?

[marthe]

Good observation Don Basilio. Other than aluminum/aluminium, different spellings don't seem to affect pronunciation. Aluminum rather than aluminium came about because of a clever American marketing scheme back in the 1920s. Aluminium had one "I" too many for the ad men of the time. I'm now reading a biography of Mary Nisbet, Countess Elgin (of the Marbles fame), whose early-19th-century spelling is all over the place in terms of capitalization of nouns/pronouns, use of "or" rather than "our" in words such as color/colour etc.

There has been much debate on this (and the old R3) board about prounciation differences, think of the fuss over skedule/shedule.

[Estelle]

Don Basilio,
I believe that American spelling differences from the British are more a simplification effort than a reflection of pronunciation. On both sides of the Atlantic the English language is rife with inconsistencies when it comes to pronunciation and spelling alike!

In response to #46, English is not the first language of the citizens of India and Pakistan.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

I understood that Samuel Johnson and Noah Webster both produced dictionaries at a time when spelling was not standardized, and so set the future British/American usage from the options that were available then.
Noah Webster produced his famous dictionary in 1828, by which time, English spelling was very much as it is now, rather than being variable, as it was in Shakespears's time.

[bluestateprommer]

(1) From the deafening silence, I gather that no one checked out the Met's Ernani from yesterday, either on the radio or at the cinema. Granted that its plot is tortrously ridiculous in places, even by the standards of opera, I can imagine that it might not be the highest priority for many. Compared to the recent Robert Lepage Ring and all its troubles, this Ernani is almost refreshingly "old-school" in its traditional big sets and old costumes. Still, and given that I'm not a particular Verdi fan, I rather enjoyed it, once past the inanities of the plot.

(2) The Met announced their 2012-2013 season this week. Here's the list of the HD-cast productions for next season:

10/13/2012: L'elisir d'Amore
10/27/2012: Otello
11/10/2012: The Tempest (Thomas Ades himself is scheduled to conduct)
12/1/2012: La clemenza di Tito
12/8/2012: Un ballo in maschera
12/15/2012: Aida
1/5/2013: Les Troyens
1/19/2013: Maria Stuarda
2/16/2013: Rigoletto
3/2/2013: Parsifal
3/16/2013: Francesca da Rimini
4/27/2013: Giulio Cesare

http://www.metoperafamily.org/metopera/liveinhd/liveinhd1213.aspx?icamp=HD1213int&iloc=hptab

[kernelbogey]

It seems that Boarders are not great fans of the Met broadcasts, or at least posting about them. I didn't know Ernani and caught only bits last night on R3, but I shall certainly try and acquaint myself with it. Any recommendations for it on disc, anyone?

Oh, and thanks for the heads up on next season, BSP.

[Flosshilde]

(2) The Met announced their 2012-2013 season this week. Here's the list of the HD-cast productions for next season:

http://www.metoperafamily.org/metopera/liveinhd/liveinhd1213.aspx?icamp=HD1213int&iloc=hptab

Blast - no Ring cycle. I missed the broadcasts of the individual operas & thought/hoped that they would be doing a complete cycle next season. Stiil, there is Parsifal :smiley:.

[kernelbogey]

Blast - no Ring cycle. I missed the broadcasts of the individual operas & thought/hoped that they would be doing a complete cycle next season. Stiil, there is Parsifal :smiley:.
Not quite true, Meine Flosshilde... The blurb (http://www.metoperafamily.org/opera/rheingold-ring-wagner-tickets.aspx) says that there will be three cycles in Spring 2013, though it doesn't yet give dates. It appears that BSP's info is just about HD transmissions - so we have to start saving for the trip to NYC...!

[Il Grande Inquisitor]

(1) From the deafening silence, I gather that no one checked out the Met's Ernani from yesterday, either on the radio or at the cinema.

Not quite. I've just submitted my Opera Britannia review:

http://www.opera-britannia.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=656:ernani-metropolitan-opera-25th-february-2012&catid=8:opera-reviews&Itemid=16

[Flosshilde]

Not quite true, Meine Flosshilde... The blurb (http://www.metoperafamily.org/opera/rheingold-ring-wagner-tickets.aspx) says that there will be three cycles in Spring 2013, though it doesn't yet give dates. It appears that BSP's info is just about HD transmissions - so we have to start saving for the trip to NYC...!

Thanks Kernel, but I was replying to BSP's post on HD transmissions! I did look up the Met season prog so know that there will be 3 cycles in the season, which is why I was hoping that there would be an HD broadcast. (although I didn't check to see if any of the cycles were matinees - they have done that in the past, on four consecutive Saturdays)

[Flosshilde]

Just looked at the dates for the Ring in next season's programme. Very curious; the first cycle is the Saturday matinees, except for Gotterdammerung, which is on Tuesday in the evening. Saturday Matinee audiences will have to wait 3 weeks for Gotterdammerung!

[Mr Pee]

I hope anybody with an interest in The Metropolitan Opera managed to catch the recent film on Sky Arts 2 documenting James Levine's years as Musical Director there. Fascinating stuff, including much rehearsal and behind the scenes footage, including piano rehearsals with Domingo. There's no doubt the Met hold him in great affection- and sadly also how much he struggles now with his back problems. It was one of the most fascinating arts documentaries I have seen for a very long time. :ok:

[bluestateprommer]

I guess that I was a bit remiss in not posting initially the link to the full 2012-2013 season, rather than just the link to the HD-Cast schedule for next season. I presumed (perhaps in error) that the HD-cast selections would be of greatest initial interest, since the repertoire is mostly standard. Plus, I sort of guessed that regular transatlantic travel opera is just a bit beyond the budget of most of us :) , since I don't think any of us are Warren Buffett.

Just for the record, here is the link to the Met's full repertoire for next season:

http://www.metoperafamily.org/metopera/season/index.aspx?type=next

The gems tend to coincide with the HD-cast selections, at least IMHO.

[bluestateprommer]

Sorry about the late notice, but for those remotely interested, for the Metropolitan Opera's Saturday matinee of Les Troyens tomorrow, those who remember the Covent Garden and Proms performances on your side of the pond may be interested to know that Bryan Hymel, on this side of the pond, is about to pull the trifecta of saving the day as a substitute Aeneas, over the course of 12 months. Marcello Giordani pulled out of the Met run, and Hymel is taking over for the matinee, which is both on the radio and being HD-cast to cinemas:

http://www.metoperafamily.org/opera/troyens-berlioz-tickets.aspx

It's the last performance of this season's run at the Met.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Thanks for that. Les Troyens was promised in cinemas over here too, so I must check quickly.


But :grr: I :grr: do :grr: get :grr: angry :grr: when :grr: people :grr: write :grr: 12 p.m. :grr: when :grr: they :grr: mean :grr: 12 noon. :grr::grr::grr:

[Estelle]

Re Message 62:

The term "12 pm," although it may be an odd usage from UK residents' point of view, is actually a conventional expression for "12 noon" in the U.S. I assume that the explanation is that the afternoon begins with 12:01 (post meridiem) and people are careless about that single minute. (Maybe someone else has another explanation.) Celebrate our differences!

[rauschwerk]

I booked ages ago to see the cinema relay. It was a great experience. The principal roles could hardly have been better sung and the performance completely demolished any remnants of ideas that this opera suffers from longueurs. There was just one brief scene (with Anna and Narbal) where I thought the tension sagged a bit but that could well have been just me. Brian Hymel (a new name to me) was magnificent as Aeneas. It would have been even better to have had a really first class Berlioz conductor in the pit but Luisi knew what he was doing on the whole.

I think I would have found the sound quality unsatisfactory on the radio but with such compelling singing and stage action I hardly noticed the deficiencies most of the time. It must be a hell of a job getting decent sound on that vast stage.

The audience at Aldeburgh was pathetically small - a few dozen at most.

[Resurrection Man]

I listened to parts of it off the radio last night and thought it a pretty spiffing performance....way above what the Met usually serves up on a Saturday.

[Bryn]

I have not checked in the last hour or so but in the early hours Les Troyens was actually available via the Listen Again facility on the iPlayer, and in HD Sound. I wonder if the Beeb have negotiated a new rights agreement with the NY Met?

[Flosshilde]

I listened to parts of it off the radio last night and thought it a pretty spiffing performance....way above what the Met usually serves up on a Saturday.

Unfortunately I was only able to hear the last hour & a half, but I'd agree. For once the audience ecstasies were justified.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Re Message 62:

The term "12 pm," although it may be an odd usage from UK residents' point of view, is actually a conventional expression for "12 noon" in the U.S. I assume that the explanation is that the afternoon begins with 12:01 (post meridiem) and people are careless about that single minute. (Maybe someone else has another explanation.) Celebrate our differences!. It isn't just a US thing. It's common here too. I passed a restaurant which proudly boasted that it was open from 12 a.m. to 12 p.m. In this case, it meant 12 noon to 12 midnight, and not the other way round.

[Bryn]

. It isn't just a US thing. It's common here too. I passed a restaurant which proudly boasted that it was open from 12 a.m. to 12 p.m. In this case, it meant 12 noon to 12 midnight, and not the other way round.

While agreeing with the general tenor, it does get even sillier during daylight saving adjustments, when noon (midday) goes adrift from the clock. During BST, 12 p.m. is an even more absurd way to describe the daylight 12 o'clock, for it is actually ante meridiem by a full hour. :winkeye:

[ARBurton]

I enjoyed this courtesy of Warwick Arts Centre, about half-full, although we could have done without the idiot who talked through most of Act 4. Voight Hymel and Graham were excellent but Luisi let the side down, methinks. Where is Sir Colin when we need him...?!

[Il Grande Inquisitor]

I have not checked in the last hour or so but in the early hours Les Troyens was actually available via the Listen Again facility on the iPlayer, and in HD Sound. I wonder if the Beeb have negotiated a new rights agreement with the NY Met?

I wondered this, Bryn. I recall that The Tempest was also available. If so, it's good news.

[Il Grande Inquisitor]

I enjoyed this courtesy of Warwick Arts Centre, about half-full, although we could have done without the idiot who talked through most of Act 4. Voight Hymel and Graham were excellent but Luisi let the side down, methinks. Where is Sir Colin when we need him...?!

If you thought Voigt was good, you should have heard Anna Caterina Antonacci at the ROH (or at the Proms) last summer... the reigning Cassandre de nos jours. Bryan Hymel and Susan Graham were both superb; indeed, I doubt I'll ever hear Didon sung better. Fabio Luisi - I wonder if he's spreading himself too thinly taking on so many productions at the moment. He was less fitful than Pappano at Covent Garden, but less exciting too.

[Estelle]

I'd just like to comment that, having listened to both the ROH (Proms) and the Met performances of Les Troyens, I find that Bryan Hymel has matured enormously in the role. I have the impression that, if such a thing is possible, his voice has grown richer and fuller. Although Eva-Maria Westbroeck acquitted herself most capably in the role of Didon, Susan Graham truly assumed the character, living it in her expressive honeyed voice and with gasps and dry sobs in her final arias. (Of course, she's been singing Didon since at least 2003.)

[David-G]

I saw this at the "Gate", Notting Hill. Not to beat about the bush, Voigt was terrible. She was shrill, her intonation was iinsecure, and she wobbled. She did not have the demeanour of a great tragedienne which is necessary for the Trojan princess. In contrast to Antonacci at Covent Garden, who had everything. The "New York Post" agrees with me: "Voigt, one of the Met’s favorite sopranos, hit a career low point with her small-voiced, tremulous singing as Cassandra. As the clairvoyant princess, her onstage manner was anything but grand — more like a peevish substitute teacher." I felt for Joyce DiDonato, who had to say in the interval how woinderful Voigt had been. In fairness, I do not think that Voigt was well served by the producer or the costume designer.

But Susan Graham was simply magnificent. I do not think I have heard such superb singing and complete assumption of character in such a role since Janet Baker. Westbroek at Covent Garden sang well, and had a pleasant stage persona; but her performance was very generalised; she was playing Dido, whereas Graham was Dido.

And I agree with Estelle, Hymel was also in magnificent voice, more so than at Covent Garden. His voice has something of the great and unsurpassable Jon Vickers, whom I saw as Aeneas in 1972, though Vickers had a more forceful delineation of character. Hymel replaced the original tenor, who had proved inadequate, just before Christmas.

The production was reasonably handsome, but I kept observing things which I felt could have been done better. Far too many scenes had unnecessary extras and (uncalled for) dancers, all of which drew away the focus from the main drama. I continually felt that Zambello did not trust Berlioz's dramaturgy, and was attempting to supplement it with her own. She is wrong, and her changes were generally for the worse. But at least, her representation was reasonably straightforward, and there was nothing to alienate the viewer such as the ghastly rotating white wall in Act 3 of the Covent Garden Walkure.

I felt that the Troy acts suffered from being poorly lit. Perhaps this was so that Carthage would seem bright by comparison, but it was a mistake; the general drabness detracted from the drama. The Covent Garden production had a similar problem, Antonacci was not well served by being dressed in black against a dark background.

Despite the anaemic Troy acts, I greatly enjoyed seeing the magnificent "Les Troyens" again, and in Susan Graham's Dido I had a Great Experience.

Incidentally, at the "Gate" there was a break in the sound transmission of about a couple of minutes in the Carthaginian celebrations of Act 3. Did this happen at other venues?

[DublinJimbo]

Not to beat about the bush, Voigt was terrible. She was shrill, her intonation was iinsecure, and she wobbled. She did not have the demeanour of a great tragedienne which is necessary for the Trojan princess.

Sadly, I have to agree. Vocally unimpressive, wooden at best in acting terms, and all too often made me feel that she was just being Brünnhilde in a different costume.


But Susan Graham was simply magnificent.

My goodness, yes. Superbly sung, with wonderful intelligence. Her portrayal of Dido was magisterial, from the refined and self-assured regal miens at the outset to a harrowing disintegration at the end. A deeply moving performance, one to cherish.


And I agree with Estelle, Hymel was also in magnificent voice

What a performance! Heroic, amorous, hesitant as required, with vocal control to match. Fine as he was, though, I was surprised when he rather than Susan Graham was given the final curtain call. I know he saved the show and all that, but he didn't have the all-embracing and unforgettable presence and command that she did.


Incidentally, at the "Gate" there was a break in the sound transmission of about a couple of minutes in the Carthaginian celebrations of Act 3. Did this happen at other venues?

We had no technical problems here in Dublin, at least at the city-centre venue I was at. I ran out to the foyer in order to miss the backstage interview with Susan Graham, too deeply moved by the music to be able to bear inanities similar to the first interval, which reinforced my opinion that being taken backstage spoils the magic.

As I made my way home afterwards, though, all I could think about was how privileged I'd been to partake in this wonderful operatic experience.

[Il Grande Inquisitor]

Sadly, I have to agree with David and DublinJimbo regarding Voigt - a sad spectacle, considering how well she could once sing the role. My review:

http://www.opera-britannia.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=843:les-troyens-metropolitan-opera-5th-january-2013-&catid=8:opera-reviews&Itemid=16

[DracoM]

An internet station in Germany - MD - has just finished streaming the James Morris / Deborah Voigt / Met Dutchman and have to say she sounds in splendid form.

[LHC]

An internet station in Germany - MD - has just finished streaming the James Morris / Deborah Voigt / Met Dutchman and have to say she sounds in splendid form.

Presumably the recording made in 1997, in which case, should that not be "she sounded in splendid form"?

In her heyday, Deborah Voigt was a very good dramatic soprano. Indeed, she was by most accounts an estimable Cassandre when this production of Les Troyens was premiered in 2003. Unfortunately, the years (and possibly her weight loss surgery) have taken their toll and she is no longer the singer she once was.

[ARBurton]

If you thought Voigt was good, you should have heard Anna Caterina Antonacci at the ROH (or at the Proms) last summer... the reigning Cassandre de nos jours. Bryan Hymel and Susan Graham were both superb; indeed, I doubt I'll ever hear Didon sung better. Fabio Luisi - I wonder if he's spreading himself too thinly taking on so many productions at the moment. He was less fitful than Pappano at Covent Garden, but less exciting too.

I did indeed: well, courtety of R3`s relay and a dvd at least - sadly I couldn`t afford to hear Ms Antonacci in the flesh.