Top Ten Symphonies [Archive] - The Radio 3 Forum

antongould

10-03-11, 19:23

I know there is a dislike of "charts" hereabout but it would be very interesting to me, and possibly others, to find out what members 10 favourite symphonies are. I used a list years ago to broaden my vista which I have sadly lost.
I found this, I feel rather surprising, list on a website

1 Mahler 9
2 Haydn 34
3 Beethoven 5
4 Mozart 25
5 Barber 1
6 Haydn 94
7 Dvorak 9
8 Ives 1
9 Brahms 2
10 Beethoven 9

I apologise in advance if this has been "played" recently is so just let this thread die!

StephenO

10-03-11, 19:58

I rather like charts, as long as Andre Rieu doesn't feature in them.

My top ten symphonies, in alphabetical order of composer, are -

Beethoven 9
Brahms 3
Dvorak 7
Elgar 1
Mahler 2
Mozart 39
Rachmaninov 2
Rautavaara 8
Sibelius 7
Tchaikovsky 4

plus Strauss Eine Alpensinfonie, if that counts.

Uncle Monty

10-03-11, 20:32

Yes, I like a chart too. Good fun, and always interesting to see other people's likes. And I wasn't going to mention Andre Rieu, though if you're very naughty I may have to mention Rondo Veneziano :yikes:

I just can't put these in 1-10 order, and they could be different next week, but here goes:

Vaughan Williams 5 (or 3 or any other!)
Bruckner 9
Mahler 3
Dvorak 8
Shostakovich 5
Rachmaninov 1
Brahms 2 (or perhaps 1)
Sibelius 5
Berlioz SF

I know it's heretical, but to be honest I'm a bit bored with Beethoven symphonies these days. I know all about sonata form and development sections and bridge passages and all that, but in LvB's case the result is very often that he takes a tune and flogs it to death until you're crying for mercy. And I do love Mozart's symphonies although they're pretty boring to play, especially on my instrument. As I must have said before, he's just lucky they sound so wonderful!

Caliban

10-03-11, 20:42

Some common ground emerging... Yeah, a list between friends is fun.

Here's my 10 (and like Uncle Monty, I can't put them in any order - it depends on the day, the week, the performance...):

Rachmaninov 2
Bach BWV 1045
Elgar 1
Shostakovich 15
Mahler 5
Mahler 6
Sibelius 5
Sibelius 7
Walton 1
Vaughan Williams 5

Petrushka

10-03-11, 20:46

In no particular order:

Mahler 2
Beethoven 9
Bruckner 8
Shostakovich 5
Mahler 8
Mahler 6
Bruckner 9
Elgar 1
Elgar 2
Mahler 3

Tapiola

10-03-11, 20:57

Interesting to see how much some of us have in common.

Today's top ten list (which could change tomorrow) is:

Beethoven 5
Mahler 2
Mahler 6
Bruckner 9
Schnittke 3
Shostakovich 4
Shostakovich 15
Vaughan Williams 3
Brahms 1
Part 2

maestro267

10-03-11, 21:11

Mahler 2
Tchaikovsky 5
Beethoven 7
Shostakovich 11
Vaughan Williams 2
Mahler 3
Brahms 1
Bruckner 8
Elgar 2
Brian 1 (Gothic)

Caliban

10-03-11, 21:13

Even more interesting than the common ground (from the 'vista broadening' point of view mentioned in message #1) is to see 'off piste' favourites nestling among the more familiar items - e.g. Schnittke 3 and Rautavaara 8 :yikes: Especially the latter, Taps, which features alongside two special favourites of mine Mahler 6 and Shostakovich 15. Definitely tempted to investigate!

And antongould, you mention someone's list from a website - but what of your own favourites? :smiley:

Caliban

10-03-11, 21:16

Damn! maestro267 reminds me I forgot Bruckner 8 !! :doh:

Can I have 11 please? :biggrin:

antongould

10-03-11, 21:46

Thanks one and all for the swift and very interesting responses a small selection but my own

Bruckner 8
Bruckner 7
Elgar 1
Brahms 2
Schumann 4
Beethoven 9
Rawsthorne 2
Mahler 3
Mahler 1
Tchaikovsky 6

barber olly

10-03-11, 22:03

With the wealth of choice around how do you choose
Here's 10.....
Rachmaninov 2
Tchaik 4
Tchaik Manfred
Schubert 5
Elgar 1
Mahler 2
Mozart 39
Schumann 2
Bruckner 5
Berlioz SF

Here's 10 more.......
VW2
Prokofiev 5
Shostakovich 10
Borodin 2
Sibelius 5
Brahms 2
Beethoven 3
Dvorak 8
Bizet
Saint-Saens 3
but then that misses out...... and........ and

Eine Alpensinfonie

10-03-11, 22:06

Mozart 40
Tchaikovsky 6
Elgar 1
Vaughan Williams 1
Vaughan Williams 5
Beethoven 3
Brahms 4
Strauss Eine Alpensinfonie (of course it counts :ok:)
Schumann 4
Mahler 4
Rachmaninov 3

Uncle Monty

10-03-11, 22:28

Part 2

Of what? :whistle: :smiley:

Barbirollians

10-03-11, 23:29

Beethoven 3,5,6,7,8.9
Mozart 38
Brahms 1,3
Sibelius 5

Mandryka

10-03-11, 23:37

Tried to limit myself to one symphony per composer. It was difficult!

Bruckner 8
Sibelius 5
Beethoven 7
Schubert 9
Mahler 4
Brahms 4
Hindemith Symphonie Mathis Der Mahler
Prokofiev 7
Shostakovich 10
Franck Symphonie

Dave2002

10-03-11, 23:50

Tonight:

Beethoven 3
Brahms 3
Bruckner 8
Mahler 2
Schumann 3
Mozart 39
Tchaikovsky 6
Haydn 104
Sibelius 7
Schubert 9

Tomorrow the numbers will all be different, but maybe the composers will be the same! Unless of course Nielsen sneaks in.

antongould

11-03-11, 08:23

Were our census to end now then we have Mahler 2 and Bruckner 8 as joint leaders with Mahler pulling in more votes than Beethoven. But a smallish statistical sample.

Suffolkcoastal

11-03-11, 08:57

This is very hard, the symphony being my special area of interest. I think I'd struggle trying to find what to leave out in my top 100 let alone top 10! Anyway here goes, I've decided to keep it to one symphony per composer to try and add variety.

Roy Harris No 7 (close run thing with No 6)
W Schumann No 3
Vaughan Williams No 5 (just ahead of Nos 3 & 9)
Elgar No 2
Sibelius No 4 (close run thing with No 3)
Copland No 3
Martinu No 1
Tubin No 4
Bax No 3 (tough choice between nos 2, 3 & 6)
Lilburn No 2

My sincere apologies to many of my other favourite symphonists (including: Hanson, Piston, Diamond, Mennin, R Simpson, Arnold, Parry, Stanford, Rubbra, Nielsen, Holmboe, Rautavaara, Koppel, Shostakovich, Prokofiev, Miaskovsky, Glazunov, Tchaikovsky, Kalliwoda, Beethoven, F J Haydn, Bruckner, Dvorak) for missing them out.

Can we do a top 100 instead :smiley:

Tapiola

11-03-11, 09:17

Hindemith Symphonie Mathis Der Mahler

:ok:

I almost included Mathis in my list from last night. Inevitably, by this morning my list has changed.

I''d also forgotten about Nielsen 5, Harris 3, Brahms 4 ...

Tapiola

11-03-11, 09:20

[COLOR="blue"]two special favourites of mine Mahler 6 and Shostakovich 15

When I saw your list, Caliban, at first glance it could have been my own, though it was very difficult deciding between Shostakovich 13, 14 and 15.

Yes, a top 100 please.

makropulos

11-03-11, 09:27

I think this is rather an enjoyable chart, but an impossible one too! But here are ten of my favourite symphonies, in chronological order- bearing in mind that the list could be 10 times this length...:

Mozart 41
Beethoven 7
Schumann 2
Brahms 3
Mahler 2
Suk Asrael
Elgar 2
Vaughan Williams 5
Walton 1
Copland 3

Oh dear. Looking through those, I can't leave it at that. Another ten:

Mozart Haffner
Vorisek Symphony in D
Schubert 5
Beethoven 9
Brahms 2
Dvorak 7
Mahler 6
Sibelius 1
Hindemith Mathis
Prokofiev 5

and so on...

vinteuil

11-03-11, 09:41

antongould

11-03-11, 09:45

Can we do a top 100 instead :smiley:

To Suffolkcoastal and others - if we let this short version "run" I promise to start a Top 100 thread for the long winter evenings!
Thanks again for the varied and interesting responses thus far!

Caliban

11-03-11, 10:02

When I saw your list, Caliban, at first glance it could have been my own, though it was very difficult deciding between Shostakovich 13, 14 and 15.

Well for me there is no contest between those DSCH symphonies. The first movement of 15 is the piece that got me into classical music at the age of 15 or so, and I still think it's dazzling, along with the final movement and that magical conclusion :loveblush:

Ferretfancy

11-03-11, 10:14

Here's this moment's ten, tomorrow's could be different, there are so many.

Haydn 102
Mozart 39
Schubert 9
Brahms 3
Dvorak 7
Rachmaninov 3
Sibelius 6
Vaughan Williams 3
Stravinsky Symphony in 3 mvts.
Shostakovich 8

aeolium

11-03-11, 10:22

Mozart 38
Haydn 88
Haydn 102
Beethoven 3
Schubert 9
Schumann 2
Bruckner 7
Dvorak 7
Mahler 3
Nielsen 4

mathias broucek

11-03-11, 10:51

Using one-per-composer:

Beethoven 5
Berwald Singuliere
Brahms 4
Bruckner 8
Dvorak 8
Mahler 2
Mozart 41
Schubert 9
Shostakovich 5
RVW 5

umslopogaas

11-03-11, 11:23

What a sacriligous task! I've just had to cross out Mozart so I can squeeze in Shostakovich, it really shouldnt be allowed. But, here goes. As others seem to have defied the rules and admitted their list is not in strict order of preference, same goes for me. This is just the order in which they popped into my head:

Messiaen Turangalila symphony
Schubert 9
Sibelius 5 (or any other)
Mahler 2 (and others)
Bruckner 8
Haydn any from the nineties or hundreds
Stravinsky symphony in three movements
Hindemith Harmonie die Welt
Ives 4
Shostakovich 10 (and others)

Sigh, no room for Beethoven, Mozart, Schumann, Brahms, Tchaikovsky. I'm not sorry to freeze out the last two, but the first three caused some pangs of disquiet.

Several on the list are works that I got to know at the start of my listening career, back in the late nineteen sixties, often from deleted mono LPs (cheap for a poor student) or purchases I couldnt afford, but couldnt resist either: Karajan's DG Sibelius 5, Ozawa's Turangalila on RCA, Ormandy's Shostakovich 10 on CBS ... we ought really to have a separate thread for this. Mahler 2 from Solti on Decca! Ah ...

Ferretfancy

11-03-11, 11:34

There seems to be a question here. should we list symphonies that are indisputably great as the criterion, or should we try to choose the ones that in some way or other break new ground?
As an example, Sibelius 6 has a quality that I find in no other, perhaps not in structure, but in feeling. On the other hand, the later Dvorak symphonies, great as they are, are relatively conventional. It might narrow the choice if we chose works which shifted the symphonic viewpoint by a change of form or content.

Caliban

11-03-11, 11:44

antongould

11-03-11, 12:22

I don't think it's that complicated is it? It's just about listing one's favourite symphonies! :smiley:

The criteria to judge that will vary from person to person.
I agree completely just your own personal favourites, alright, at that point in time, but how you choose is down to you!

Caliban

11-03-11, 13:03

1 Johann Baptist Vanhal: Symphony in C major 'Sinfonia comista'
2 Leopold Kozeluch: Symphony in Bb major 'l'irresoluto'
3 Anton Eberl: Symphony in d minor op 34
4 Charles-Valentin Alkan: Symphony for solo piano, op 39
5 JS Bach: Sinfonia 15, BWV 801
6 JC Bach: Symphony for Double Orchestra in Eb major, op 18 no 1
7 WF Bach: Symphony in D major, Fk 64
8 Hector Berlioz: Roméo et Juliette, Symphonie dramatique, op17
9 César Franck, Symphony in d minor
10 François-Joseph Gossec: Symphonie à grand orchestre 'la Chasse'

Mon cher Monsieur Vinteuil

Well I Nevers…!!! :winkeye:

Your list is a particularly fertile field for symphonic discoveries. I have only ever heard (or even heard of.. :yikes:) Nos. 8 & 9!

Having said that, the Franck is a bit of a bête noire of mine. I'm afraid to say I find it a mixture of boring and annoying (and that includes having played it - perhaps playing trombone 1 didn't give the best perspective on the piece).

Do Messrs Vanhal, Eberl, Kozeluch and Gossec really deliver in the symphonic stakes?? I am very tempted to find out (I suspect the major key ones will appeal to me more than Eberl in … d minor…)

However, most interesting!!

Suffolkcoastal

11-03-11, 13:18

Actually L Kozeluch and Vanhal aren't bad at all. The Kozeluch G minor symphony was a real find for me several years ago and Vanhal is highly inventive.

Bryn

11-03-11, 13:27

Stravinsky - The Rite of Spring (well Bernstein held it to be a symphony).
Mahler - Das Lied von der Erde
Renault - Sinfonia com um F1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IwKG99ubIMs)
Martin (Tony)? - Tenement Symphony (http:/http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2xEOCCaXOoc/)

cont. p. 94.

salymap

11-03-11, 13:59

This would be different tomorrow, but........

Haydn 90
Mozart 39
Dvorak 8
Mahler 4
Sibelius 7
Berlioz SF
Tchaikovsky 4
Schubert 5
Elgar 2
RVW 6

french frank

11-03-11, 14:07

I don't, on the whole, do symphonies (all dat noise!) though I'm pleased to see Suffolkcoastal goes for Sibelius 4 - I thought I was the only person in the world to enjoy that one of Sib's above all ...

Some symphonies which have entered my collection for unexplained (or forgotten) reasons:

Korngold, Symphony op 40
Magnard, Symphonies 1-4
Gade, Symphonies 3 & 5
Voříšek, Symphony in D major (makropulos has this one too)
Svendsen, Symphonies 1 & 2
Nielsen, Symphonies 4 & 5
Scriabin, Symphonies 2 & 3
H. Brian, Symphony 3

Roehre

11-03-11, 14:25

In alphabetical order (and a list valid only today :-) ):

Beethoven 3
Brahms 3
Hartmann 2
Haubenstock Ramati "K"
Kelterborn 4
Keuris S.in D
Schnebel "X"
Shostakovich 15
Sibelius 4
Webern op.21

Basil

11-03-11, 14:51

Based on those I've listened to recently, in no particular order.

Shostakovich 11
Mendelssohn 5
Brahms 1
Mahler 2
Sibelius 2
Sibelius 7
Bizet Symphony in C
Bruckner 9
Dvorak 5
Glass Low Symphony

Caliban

11-03-11, 14:55

Haubenstock Ramati "K"
Kelterborn 4
Keuris S.in D
Schnebel "X"

:yikes:

Shostakovich 15

:ok:

Brassbandmaestro

11-03-11, 17:55

Good heavens, how do you choose a top ten list of symphoniers?
Well here are mine(in no particulkar order)

John Pickard: Gaia Symphony
Rachmaninov: Symphony No.2
Bruckner: Symphony No.,7
Shostakovich: Symphony No.5
Mahlerr: Symphony No.6
Robert Simpson: No.9
Vaughan Williams: No.5
Bax: No.7
Sibelius: No.5
Beethoven: No.9

Brassbandmaestro

11-03-11, 18:03

What a good idea this! Here goes!

(in no partricular order)

John Pickard: Gaia Symphony
Beethoven: No.9
Rachmaninov: No.2
Sibelius: No.7
Bax: No.3
VW No.5
Mahler No.6
Shostakovich: No.5
Robert Simpson: No.9
Bantock: Pagan Symphony

EdgeleyRob

11-03-11, 19:32

Vaughan Williams 5 and 9 (on any given day I could quite easily choose all 9 plus 1 other as my 10)
Elgar 1 and 2
Mahler 9
Brahms 1
Shostakovich 10
Bruckner 8
Mozart Prague
Beethoven 3

johnb

11-03-11, 20:22

What a good idea this! Here goes!

(in no partricular order)

John Pickard: Gaia Symphony
...........

I went of two day courses, on Messiaen and Shostakovich, given by John Pickard at Bristol University (where he is now a Professor). He is an inspirational lecturer!

amateur51

11-03-11, 20:26

french frank

11-03-11, 21:16

I wasn't playing 'Top Ten Symphonies': I was playing 'Symphonies I've Got In My Collection'. Sorry, off-topic :winkeye:

BeethovensQuill

11-03-11, 22:12

For me at the moment its

Mahler 9
Mahler 5
Brahms 4
Beethoven 3, 6 and 9
Bruckner 8
Szymanowski 3
RVW 3
Vasks Symphony for strings

Threni

11-03-11, 22:18

I don't have a top 10 but these are afew favourite:

Beethoven 9
Schnittke 1
Moeran 4
Nielsen 2
Shostakovich 7, 8, 10, 11 (!!!)
Tchaikovsky all!
Berlioz Symphonie Fantastique

Eine Alpensinfonie

11-03-11, 22:24

Can we do a top 100 instead :smiley:
Yes, why not! :smiley:
Bantock: Hebridean
Beethoven: 3, 6, 7 & 9
Berlioz: Fantastic; Funeral & Harold in Italy
Brahms: 3 & 4
Britten: Spring Symphony
Bruckner: 4, 5, 7 & 8
Dvorak: 3, 6, 7, 8 & 9
Elgar: 1, 2 & 3
Gunning: Yorkshire Glory
Haydn: 44, 49, 83, 88, 92, 94, 96, 97, 102, 103 & 104
Hovhaness: 2. 11 & 50
Hely-Hutchison: Carol Symphony
Lilburn: 3
Lloyd, G: 8
Mahler: 1, 2, 3, 4, 6 & 9
Mendelssohn, 2, 4 & 5
Mozart: 9, 25, 29, 34, 36, 38, 39, 40 & 41
Nielsen: 1, 4 & 5
Part: 3
Prokofiev: 1, 3, 5
Parry: 3 & 5
Rachmaninov: 2 & 3
Rubbra: 5
Schubert: 4, 8 & 9
Schumann: 4
Shostakovitch 5, 7, 10 & 15
Sibelius: 1, 2, 3, 5 & 6
Strauss: Eine Alpensinfonie
Stravinsky: Symphony of Psalms
Sullivan: Irish
Tchaikovsky: 1, 2, 4, 5 & 6
Vaughan Williams: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 & 7
Walton: 1

barber olly

11-03-11, 22:31

Vaughan Williams 5 and 9 (on any given day I could quite easily choose all 9 plus 1 other as my 10)

You could always cheat and add Job!

antongould

11-03-11, 22:37

At the risk of upsetting people by sounding like SMP and RC - "the chart" as we go into the weekend in alphabetical order

Beethoven 3
Beethoven 9
Brahms 1
Brahms 3
Bruckner 8
Elgar 1
Elgar 2
Mahler 2
Sibelius 5
Vaughan Williams 5

But it could, possibly, all change - thanks again for the fascinating responses.

barber olly

11-03-11, 23:07

Why does someone feel the need to analyse the unanalysable?

1 Statistically unsound
2 Spoils the fun
3 Does this include those who had more than 10
4 I suspect many of those who contributed have strong feelings for 50 plus symphonies (maybe even 50 symphonists) and compromised to produce 10 for the list.
5 Many could have given their best 10 Mozart (39, 38, 41, 36, 34, 33, 35, 40, 29, 25)
or Haydn (102,101,104,92,98,88,96,103,100,94)
6 Surely some cannot be serious - Beethoven 9 - that weird finale!!!

antongould

11-03-11, 23:22

Because there are sad people in this sad world

It only includes 10 per person which most people adhered to.

I understand all you say but I am a boring Accountant with spec's!

Obviously, yours can be the only serious and sustainable view of Beethoven 9!

Chris Newman

11-03-11, 23:34

Sorry, my affections change too much. I could not find a favourite hundred. This sort of statistic is not my cup of tea.

Brassbandmaestro

12-03-11, 06:58

I went of two day courses, on Messiaen and Shostakovich, given by John Pickard at Bristol University (where he is now a Professor). He is an inspirational lecturer!

I should think that was quite inspirational.I do rather like his music. I have also for brass band, Eden. Equally another great work. I think its high time we had more from this composer.

Alison

12-03-11, 10:34

I've decided to have ten different composers and my current favourite from each

Haydn 104
Mozart 40
Beethoven 5
Bruckner 8
Mahler 9
Tchaikovsky 6
Elgar 2
Vaughan Williams 5
Brian 1
Glazunov 4

LeMartinPecheur

12-03-11, 10:46

Silly game, but why not?:smiley: Just as long as I don't find I'm retricted to these 10 in the next place:erm:

Haydn 88
Beethoven 7
Bruckner 5
Mahler 6
Elgar 1
VW 2
Brian 6
Sibelius 2
Nielsen 5
Shostakovich 14 (I do so-o-o-o like a nice cheery finale:laugh:)

Hmmm, not a 9th symph to be seen?:yikes:

amateur51

12-03-11, 10:51

What next? :yikes:

Bags me first go at "What's Your Favourite Sandwich?" :laugh:

Really it couldn't be much dafter, could it?

Could it? :whistle:

pilamenon

12-03-11, 10:54

Beethoven 6, 7 and 8
Haydn 100
Mahler 1
Mendelssohn 4
Prokofiev 1 and 5
Shostakovich 7
Vaughan Williams 6

LeMartinPecheur

12-03-11, 11:01

Pilamenon: Mendelssohn 4. That's an original and brave choice!

[Probably wouldn't have been in, say, 1880 which must say something about musical tastes...:whistle:]

Alison

12-03-11, 11:41

Flaming good symphony, the Italian.
I feel an immediate spin coming on.

Sinopli, Haitink or Abbado to choose from.

Suffolkcoastal

12-03-11, 12:12

If I must then Eine Alpensinfonie :smiley: here's my 100 at the moment.

Arnold 5 & 7
Barber 1 & 2
Bax 2, 3 & 6
Beethoven 3, 7, 8, 9
Bernstein 1
Borodin 2
Brahms 1
Bruckner 5, 7 & 9
Copland 2 & 3
Corigliano 1
Diamond 2,3 & 4
Dvorak 6, 7 & 9
Elgar 1 & 2 & Elgar/Payne 3
Glazunov 1 & 7
Hanson 2 & 4
R Harris 3, 5, 6, 7, 9 & 11
F J Haydn 88 & 102
Hindemith Mathis der Maler
Holmboe 8 & 11
Holst Choral Symphony
Honegger 3
Hovhaness 50
Kalliwoda 3
Kozeluch 3
Koppel 4
L Kozeluch Symphony in G minor
Lilburn 2
Martinu 1 & 3
Mendelssohn 3
Mennin 5 & 9
Miaskovsky 17 & 22
Moeran Symphony in G minor
Nielsen 5
Parry 3 & 4
Piston 2, 4 & 6
Popov 1
Prokofiev 5 & 6
Rachmaninov 2
Rubbra 6 & 8
Schubert 9
W Schuman 3, 5 & 9
Schumann 2
Shostakovich 4, 8 & 15
Sibelius 3, 4 & 6
R Simpson 4 & 9
Stanford 4
Stravinsky Symphony in 3 movements
Tchaikovsky 2, 3 & 6
Tippett 2
Tubin 4 & 7
Vaughan Williams 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 & 9
Walton 1

That took some thought, but there is a 'core' of about 80 that will probably always be there. With about 1,750 symphonies in my collection I suppose you could say I'm something of a symphony freak. The symphony, its development, the different solutions each composer brings to symphonic form and how they apply their own style and individuality to the form is totally fascinating!

EdgeleyRob

12-03-11, 14:15

What next? :yikes:

Bags me first go at "What's Your Favourite Sandwich?" :laugh:

Really it couldn't be much dafter, could it?

Could it? :whistle:

Corned beef and branston pickle

antongould

12-03-11, 14:19

[Suffolkcoastal
The symphony, its development, the different solutions each composer brings to symphonic form and how they apply their own style and individuality to the form is totally fascinating![/QUOTE]

Well my thanks at least to you and Eine Alpensinphonie for taking the time and trouble to make your centuries. The main reason I started the thread was not to find the top of the pops but to open new vistas. Your original 10 has already brought me Mr. Harris who I find a real, to me previously hidden, master.

salymap

12-03-11, 14:28

I suppose the 10 favourite overtures doesn't carry the same weight but I'm very fond of them. One of each composer and something new if possible. Any takers ?

antongould

12-03-11, 14:37

You'll get into trouble from some but I'm game I will away and ponder!

antongould

12-03-11, 15:07

Overtures sadly nothing new and terribly predictable

Beethoven Leonore
Elgar Cockaigne
Glinka Ruslan and Ludmilla
Mendelssohn Hebrides
Rossini Thieving Magpie
Schumann Manfred
Suppe Light Cavalry
Tchaikovsky 1812
Von Reznicek Donna Diana
Wagner Rienzi

salymap

12-03-11, 15:39

Arnold Beckus the Dandipratt
Balakirev Overture on 3 Russian Themes
Berlioz King Lear
Dvorak In Nature's Realm
Elgar Froissart
Ireland London Overture
Mendelssohn Fair Melusine
Mozart Magic Flute
Sullivan Patience
Wagner Das Liebesverbot

antongould

12-03-11, 15:40

As they say "like two peas in a pod"!

salymap

12-03-11, 16:18

Err do you think you/we should have started a new thread? No-one will know it's now OVERTURES.]

antongould

12-03-11, 16:23

Yes I think you should then we can both re-post if we can work out how!

Suffolkcoastal

12-03-11, 17:23

I'm glad to have introduced Harris to you Anton. Harris is a special interest of mine and I have a large proportion of his output in recordings including over 25 works that have never been commercially recorded. I just realised that I left Rautavaara's 3rd & 5th symphonies out of my 100, I knew it would be a difficult task! I agree that looking at what other mb's listen to and enjoy can highlight composers that one has never heard of before and/or never got round to trying and can inspire one to try them out. I'm currently in the process, over a few weeks, of downloading from itune the symphonies of the Swiss composer Hans Huber and yesterday was listening to the two symphonies of Ludvig Norman, the first (1858) of which seemed to occasionally foreshadow Elgar, though I think the influence of Schumann is the connecting factor here.

Top 10 overtures will need some thought. Top 10 concertos anyone?

Dave2002

12-03-11, 20:02

Concertos!

Mozart piano 24
Beethoven violin
Brahms violin
Mendelssohn violin
Sibelius violin
Bartok violin no 2
Prokofiev piano 1
Tippett piano
Elgar cello
Dvorak cello

Probably need to copy to another thread.

As with the others, tomorrow the numbers at least might change.

Dave2002

12-03-11, 20:04

PS: Since couldn't scroll down with my iPad, could sneak in Nielsen with his flute concerto, or Rodrigo, also with a flute concerto - but that would have to wait for tomorrow.

Dave2002

12-03-11, 20:09

Petrushka

12-03-11, 22:55

Why don't we get these as often in concert programmes as we once did? They are all superb openers.

Wagner: Die Meistersinger
Strauss: Die Fledermaus
Mendelssohn: A Midsummer Night's Dream
Herold: Zampa
Suppe: Light Cavalry
Rossini: William Tell
Glinka: Ruslan and Ludmilla
Berlioz: The Corsair
Shostakovich: Festive Overture
Borodin: Prince Igor

Eine Alpensinfonie

13-03-11, 00:54

PPS: Would Mozart's Sinfonia Concertante count? Also Brahms double and Beethoven triple, and Bach double violin concerto, and I guess Harold in Italy too!
What about Lalo Symphonie Espagnole - where would that go? :erm: Well I counted Harold in Italy as a symphony in my 100 list, but by all means categorise it as a concerto, for that is what it is.

Op. XXXIX

13-03-11, 07:55

Top 10 concertos anyone?
Okay, I'll bite:

Mozart 25
Beethoven 5
Brahms 2
Liszt 1
Rachmaninov 2
Prokofiev 3
Busoni
Elgar violin
Sibelius violin
Prokofiev violin 1

subject to change in 30 minutes or less... :smiley:

Eine Alpensinfonie

13-03-11, 11:07

But wouldn't it be better to start a new thread for concertos? :erm:

Mr Pee

13-03-11, 11:27

But wouldn't it be better to start a new thread for concertos? :erm:

:ok:

Top Ten Symphonies:- (although I'll certainly come up with a different list in ten minutes time :erm:):-

1.Elgar 1.
2.Elgar 2.
3. Rachmaninov 2.
4. Bruckner 9.
5. Beethoven 7.
6. VW London Symphony.
7.Mahler 9.
8. Mahler 4.
9. Bruckner 8.
10.Walton 1.

pilamenon

13-03-11, 12:36

:ok:

Top Ten Symphonies:- (although I'll certainly come up with a different list in ten minutes time :erm:):-

1.Elgar 1.
2.Elgar 2.
3. Rachmaninov 2.
4. Bruckner 9.
5. Beethoven 7.
6. VW London Symphony.
7.Mahler 9.
8. Mahler 4.
9. Bruckner 8.
10.Walton 1.

Good list, Mr Pee. :ok:

Beethoven 7 seems to be a very popular choice. It's probably my personal favourite, although this morning I was rather disappointed in a recording I had been looking forward to - VPO/Carlos Kleiber - as I was with their much vaunted Beethoven 5 included in the DG box set.

Listen to Haitink's recent live version of No 7 with the LSO for a glorious rendition of this most life-affirming of music.

umslopogaas

13-03-11, 13:55

antongould

13-03-11, 13:57

Feel free to do 100 we have precedents!

Eine Alpensinfonie

13-03-11, 13:58

Feel free to do 100 we have precedents!

:blush:

Caliban

13-03-11, 14:15

Post 36 french frank

You commented that you thought you were the only person who would put Sibelius symphony 4 on the list (subsequently there have been others). I thought about it, I love that work, but in the end we were only allowed ten and I veered towards symphony 5 instead. The reason is that it was one of the first proper, grown-up pieces of music I ever bought: I bought the mono DG LP conducted by Karajan in a mono deletion sale (only had one speaker at the time, so mono deletions were good news, they were very cheap for a poor student). Must have been 1967, I think. Later I replaced it with the stereo, which I still have. Later I got the Karajan version of no. 4 and its a wonderful work: with the chance of a longer list, I'd definitely include it. And 6 and 7 and for that matter, all of them!

Same here umslop (where does your moniker come from, by the way?!).

A cassette of Karajan's Sibelius 5 (plus one of Abbado's Dresden performance of Brahms 3) accompanied me through my first term at University (and thereafter), having bought them in a sale in a little music shop near the college during an early exploratory walk. Sibelius 5 remains a carrier of potent memories & important emotions. Nos 4, 6 & 7 would be easy entrants in my 'long list' - but 5 has a special place.

Mahlerei

13-03-11, 15:58

Dang, this is tough. Today's list only:

Aho: 'Luosto' Symphony
Beethoven: 9th Symphony
Berlioz: Symphonie fantastique
Bruckner: 8th Symphony
Casella: 2nd Symphony
Dvorak:'New World' Symphony
Ives: 3rd Symphony
Mahler: 2nd Symphony
Messiaen: Turangalila Symphony
Shostakovich: 8th Symphony

umslopogaas

13-03-11, 16:53

Caliban post 82

I think I posted about this before, some months ago, and of course it has nothing to do with this thread, but I'm delighted to be given an excuse to repeat it. Umslopogaas is the real hero of Allan Quatermain, Rider Haggard's sequel to King Solomon's Mines. Finding themselves bored with the life of English squires which they bought into with the proceeds of the pocketfuls of diamonds they brought back courtesy of King Solomon and Gagool, the intrepid trio of Quatermain, Curtis and Good decide to return to the African wild. They meet up with Quartermain's old ally, the fearsome Zulu warrior and virtuoso on the battle axe, Umslopogaas. And off they go into the interior, shooting anything on two legs or four that hasnt already been beheaded by Umslopogaas. I think Rider Haggard was a bit needled by suggestions of a gay subtext to King Solomon's Mines (he does warn us at the outset that there are no women in it, which is not strictly true, there is Gagool and also the beautiful Foulata, who makes a brief appearance before getting knifed). Anyway, by way of compensation, this time we get not one beautiful queen at the head of an undiscovered tribe, but two. One good, one not so good. Trouble inevitably ensues. I happened to be rereading it on the night I decided to sign on to these boards, so decided to name myself Umslopogaas, which is really a case of false pretences, I am neither fierce nor much cop with an axe, though I do split logs for the stove with one.

These are not novels to be taken seriously, but they are rattling good yarns!

Caliban

13-03-11, 17:11

Ah! Umslop, I think I remember reading your previous post now. Odd coincidence, I was friends at school with two of Rider Haggard's great grandsons (or -nephews, can't remember). Anyway they bore the family name and resemblance, and the friendships prompted me to read their ancestor's books. As you say, good and rattling!! Though I didn't remember the character from Allan Q obviously...

PS Funnily enough, did you know that "Allan" is a family name in the real-life Quartermaine [that's how they spell it] family today (as I happen to know as a result of another odd coincidence...)

umslopogaas

13-03-11, 18:22

Caliban Post 87

Very interesting, I guess its possible Rider Haggard knew an Allan Quatermaine of his generation, and lifted the name for his book, judiciously altering the spelling slightly?

I've got my grandfather's hardback Longmans editions of King Solomon's Mines and Allan Quatermain, complete with numerous illustrations. They are inscribed as Christmas presents, he was about twelve years old at the time, 1888, they had only just been published. By the time they came to me the bindings were in poor shape, but I've had them rebound and they should be good for another hundred years. I'm rather proud of them. I've also got matching editions of She, Cleopatra and also Ayesha: The Return Of She (though that is Ward Lock, not Longmans). She and Ayesha really are the most delirious nonsense, but they're great fun.

Help, someone say something more about favourite symphonies, or french frank is going to scold me for veering off topic.

antongould

13-03-11, 18:48

umslopogaas
Fear not I feel the thread has more than fulfilled it's original purpose and probably run it's course. It has produced at least 2 healthy offspring and a number of nice asides like yours which I find very interesting.
Given that 10 is far too few and that you fall into the "how could I forget" trap I would be tempted sometime in the future to play it again just to see how much people's favourites change from day to day and if there is indeed a core 4/5? that will never change.

Serial_Apologist

13-03-11, 19:46

Beethoven - 5
Brahms - either 3 or 4
Mahler - 10
Sibelius - 4
Zemlinsky - Lyric Symphony
Schoenberg - Chamber Symphony No 1
Eisler - German Symphony
Vaughan Williams - 1 or 8
Koechlin - 2
Honegger - 4
Henze - 7

Nachtigall

13-03-11, 20:40

Impossible, but…

Tchaikovsky 6 (with an option on Manfred)
Bruckner 8 (with options on 7 & 9)
Mahler 9 (with options on 2, 5, 6, 7, 8 & 10)
Dvorák 9
Elgar 1
Vaughan Williams 3 (with options on 1, 2, 5 & 7)
Rachmaninov 2 (with an option on 3)
Sibelius 6 (agree with Ferretfancy on this)
Shostakovich 8 (with options on 5, 10 & 11)
Walton 1

No room, alas, for Silvestrov's Fifth Symphony.

umslopogaas

13-03-11, 20:47

Caliban post 84 and antongould posts 82 and 89

Caliban, just had another distant memory of mono deletion sales. I used to travel to and from my undergraduate years via Waterloo Station in the late 1960s. There was a dealer in second-hand records who would put a cardboard box of mono deletions outside his shop (stall, more like it, I think, or maybe it was WH Smith, the details have faded) in the faint hope that some impoverished music lover would succumb. I often did. Since, if I recall correctly, my sound system consisted of an old 1930s valve radio that had belonged to my recently deceased Gran, which I used as a speaker (the speaker system was actually rather good ... for a 1930s radio, the sound was certainly of a rich, VINTAGE quality), coupled to a second-hand deck and amp of which at the moment I have forgotten the details: Rogers? Thorens? I will remember - the fact that there was only one channel wasnt a problem. I cant read a note of music and cant play anything except a record deck, in fact I think I might be tone deaf, so it is surprising that all my life I have had a deep love of classical music and recordings. I cant explain it, I just love the sound.

And antongould posts 82 and 89

A list of 100 favourites? Yipes, that sounds a challenge, but on a bit more thought, not really. Mozart and Haydn would get you there unaided, though it would be a bit of an ordeal to deal with their teenage numbers. And there are a few others. I read somewhere that one of the big symphonists complained that it just went on getting more difficult and complicated, every time one of the big guys wrote something, you had to write something even bigger. 'Pah, Bruckner's eighth, what's that old rubbish? Strauss, little stroll in the hills? Gustav will see them off, wait till you hear THIS' Cue for Symphony of a Thousand. No wonder Stravinsky got kind of austere.

But, antongould, 'a core 4/5 that never change' I think that is likely to be true. It would be interesting (OH, stop saying that!) to see what sifted out of the responses. I'll go away and have a think about that core. Dangerous stuff, given what news is coming out of Japan at the moment, maybe 'cores' arent where you'd really like to be just now. Unless you were a pip. Pip-pip.

Tevot

14-03-11, 12:51

Very much agree with Nachtigall - post 91 above.

But off the top of my head:

Sibelius 5
Nielsen 5
Beethoven 6
Prokofiev 6
Shostakovich 13
Ives 4
Mahler 10
Bruckner 8
Vaughan Williams 5
Elgar 3

tom_960

14-03-11, 14:30

Top 10, different composers, probably in order of preference:

Brahms 4
Bruckner 8
Schubert 8
Beethoven 3
Mahler 4
Mozart 39
Vaughan Williams 1
Sibelius 7
Prokofiev 5
Elgar 1

remdataram

14-03-11, 19:26

Mahler 2,3,4,6,9
Beethoven 3,7
Sibelius 2
Schubert 9
Tchaikovsky 5

Stanfordian

15-03-11, 09:22

This is my list of the my top ten if I had to grab my favourite music from the house. But its not in any order:

Mahler 6 & 9;
Shostakovich 5;
Bruckner 5;
Beethoven 7;
Mozart 40;
Vaughan Williams 4, 5 & 6;
Elgar 1;
Schubert 8;

String Concertos:
Walton violin concerto;
Britten violin concerto;
Shostakovich violin concertos 1 & 2;
Shostakovich cello concertos 1 & 2;
Beethoven violin concerto;
Brahms violin concerto;
Prokofiev violin concertos 1 & 2

Piano Concertos:
Prokofiev piano concerto 3;
Beethoven piano concerto 1-5;
Grieg piano concerto;
Schumann piano concerto;
Chopin piano concerto 1 & 2;

Tapiola

16-03-11, 10:17

Think I'll award myself another 10:

Beethoven 8
Shostakovich 14
Myaskovsky 21
Berlioz - Sinfonie funebre et triomphale
Stravinsky - Symphony in C
Tchaikovsky 6
Schnittke 8
Brahms 4
Silvestrov 5
Norgard 2

Panjandrum

16-03-11, 10:36

LeMartinPecheur

16-03-11, 13:15

Having resisted the temptation until now to contribute to this thread I am, however, gobsmacked at the following omissions:

Berio Sinfonia
Britten "Cello"
Haydn Symphony 98, 101
Honegger 3 "Liturgique"
Ives "New England Holidays"
Liszt Eine Faust-Symphonie
Lutoslawski Symphony No 3
Mozart Sinfonia-Concertante
Prokofiev Symphony-Concerto
Schumann 3 "Rheinische"

:doh: panjandrum: could it be that three of your absentees are neither symphonies nor concertos (Britten, Mozart, Prokofiev) and that the Berio is merely a sinfonia and therefore by definition not a symphony?:winkeye::biggrin:

Suffolkcoastal

16-03-11, 22:14

The Honegger was in my top 100 list, Though admittedly not in my top 10 it is still among my favourite symphonies.

Panjandrum

18-03-11, 13:56

panjandrum: could it be that three of your absentees are neither symphonies nor concertos (Britten, Mozart, Prokofiev) and that the Berio is merely a sinfonia and therefore by definition not a symphony?:winkeye::biggrin:

Sinfonia [It.]. Symphony (Grove; Oxford Dictionary of Music). Not sure, therefore, what you mean by "merely a sinfonia" since this is the Italian translation of symphony. Anyone who knows this work knows it is not a "merely" piece!

As for the Britten, Mozart and Prokofiev, well if the Turangalila and Mahler 8 can make the list I think these three compositions certainly meet the criteria of symphony (hybrid or otherwise) whatever they are. Actually, your comment LMP (good natured ribbing though I'm sure it was) reminds me of Ives saying he was "tired of hearing the lily boys [i.e. conservative music critics] say, 'This is a symphony?—Mercy!—Where is the first theme of 12 measures in C major?'

Vive la différence!

Eine Alpensinfonie

18-03-11, 14:15

Sinfonia [It.]. Symphony (Grove; Oxford Dictionary of Music). Not sure, therefore, what you mean by "merely a sinfonia" since this is the Italian translation of symphony. Yes...but...
In Italy, a symphony has always been a small-scale thing. Can anyone think of an Italian symphony (apart from the one by that 19th century German)?

Panjandrum

18-03-11, 15:36

Yes...but...
In Italy, a symphony has always been a small-scale thing. Can anyone think of an Italian symphony (apart from the one by that 19th century German)?

Well, there's Respighi's "Sinfonia Drammatica" of 1914. Once again, I would argue that sinfonia is a literal translation of symphony as it would be ridiculous to compose a "Dramatic Little symphony". Not one of his chef d'oeuvres but a symphony, nonetheless. However, generally speaking I would agree that the Italians have stayed away from the more "germanic" tradition of symphony and sonata form compositions.

However, I don't think this thread ever defined what characteristics a symphony must have to be so-called: the requirement was to list ten favourite "symphonies". Therefore, if the composer described their piece as a symphony, or its linguistic equivalent, then that surely meets the loose criteria to which we were working. I think some of us are still trapped in a rather austro-germanic way of looking at this. :winkeye:

Suffolkcoastal

18-03-11, 15:47

Italian composers were certainly important in the early story of the symphony notably G B Sammartini. Admittedly since then Italy hasn't made much of an impact on the history of the symphony with only Respighi's Sinfonia Drammatica, the two symphonies of Martucci (of which I'm quite fond) and Malipiero with his 11 numbered and 4 unnumbered symphonies which are highly attractive at times though often fairly small scale, among the more notable contributions.

scottycelt

18-03-11, 17:56

Bruckner 1-9
Turangalila

(Not necessarily in that order) :winkeye:..

But then again I may plump for any of the Shostakovich symphonies, Beethoven 5, Schubert 9, and, God help me, Mahler 9 and 10. Gliere 3 is another great favourite of mine... and then there is Tchaikovksy and Sibelius and ... oh never mind!

AjAjAjH

18-03-11, 20:55

Just picked up on this thread here's my 10:-

Bruckner 8 (top by 100 miles)
Mahler 9
Dvorak 9
Beethoven 7
Brahms 2
Shostakovich 8
Tchaikovsky 5
Sibelius 2
Elgar 2
Suk 'Asrael'

Apart from the Bruckner these are in no particular order and limiting myself to 10 different composers. Like others it could change rapidly particularly after hearing Berlioz 'Harold in Italy' live for the first time last night.

Mahlerei

18-03-11, 23:40

There are three fine symphonies from Alfredo Casella :)

LeMartinPecheur

19-03-11, 12:19

Yes...but...
In Italy, a symphony has always been a small-scale thing. Can anyone think of an Italian symphony (apart from the one by that 19th century German)? Thanks EA for the support: while my post was indeed mainly an attempt at "good natured ribbing" I did feel that in a fuzzy but nonetheless real way, 'sinfonia' isn't an exact translation of "symphony", let alone "Sinfonie", whatever the etymologcal tie-up.

Roehre

25-03-11, 21:52

Can anyone think of an Italian symphony (apart from the one by that 19th century German)?

d'Indy's Italian symphony? :smiley: (pre-dating his Symphonie cévénole [his un-offical no.1, "sur une mélodie montagnard"] op.25)

mercia

25-03-11, 22:03

Malipiero's Sinfonias?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Te39zjAyIOQ

Suffolkcoastal

25-03-11, 23:58

Malipiero's Sinfonias?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Te39zjAyIOQ

I've already mentioned them #104

Dave2002

26-03-11, 00:40

Martucci may have been influential once, and wrote a few symphonies.

Suffolkcoastal

27-03-11, 12:25

Martucci composed two symphonies, as I mentioned earlier on this thread, I like them both and they certainly worth more than the occasional revival.

aeolium

27-03-11, 12:31

What about Muzio Clementi -he wrote some good symphonies? And although wiki describes him as an 'English' composer, he's no more English than Handel or Mendelssohn.

Suffolkcoastal

27-03-11, 13:58

True, there are the earlier shorter symphonies Clementi wrote in the 1780's and the 4 larger symphonies in the period 1810-1830, plus the D major Symphony of Cherubini though he was resident in France. I always think it was a great pity that Cherubini only composed this one symphony as it is a very fine work.

Roehre

27-03-11, 16:07

What about Muzio Clementi -he wrote some good symphonies? And although wiki describes him as an 'English' composer, he's no more English than Handel or Mendelssohn.

But contrary to both Handel and Mendelssohn he did compose a "Great national" symphony (the officially numbered 3 in G-major) essentially based on God save the King (appearing in one way or another in all its four movements)

3rd Viennese School

01-04-11, 10:55

Prokofiev Symphony Concerto is actually a concerto! Listen and you will see.
(Or should that be hear?)

Aint done my list yet.

3VS

antongould

09-04-11, 09:11

It would seem the ballot box is as good as closed and thanks to all the 38 who cast their votes.
Sorry to upset some and I understand that not all chose the same way and that all views are transitory etc. but at those 38 moments in time the top 10 symphonic composers were seen to be

Mahler
Beethoven
Bruckner
Vaughan Williams
Shostakovich
Elgar
Sibelius
Brahms
Mozart
Tchaikovsky

and top 10 symphonies

Bruckner 8
Elgar 1
Mahler 2
Vaughan Williams 5
Beethoven 7
Beethoven 3
Elgar 2
Mahler 9
Beethoven 9
Schubert 9

Thanks to all for the interest shown.