View Full Version : So what is your favourite cathedral?
Bullock in D
30-05-11, 20:42
Just a bit of late bank holiday fun....
I am very fond of Chichester because it is so intimate and various....but Ely does it for me, especially on a cold Fenland winter's night at evensong......
Just a bit of late bank holiday fun....
I am very fond of Chichester because it is so intimate and various....but Ely does it for me, especially on a cold Fenland winter's night at evensong......
Obviously Winchester because it's where I go and then Liverpool Anglican because I have friends there but, of all the other English and Welsh ones (I've been to all except St David's, Brecon and Leicester), Durham is my favourite. I love its position, the association with St Cuthbert and Bede, and although the Choir was on hols when I visited, the sound was lovely. The Norman architecture appeals to me and I adore the Frosterly marble pillars. So there! Liz
For me, it has to be Durham, because of the architecture and, sounds silly, those wonderful chevrons although I must admit it may not be the most spiritual Cathedrals because the architecture over powers everything.. I also have a great fondness for Worcester, which is a bit of a shambles. The last time I went to Chichester I thought it smelt awfully damp.
Durham followed by Lincoln as far as Cathedrals go. If you broaden the category a bit, Beverly Minster is one of my favourite buildings.
Durham ahead by a couple of lengths so far then!? :smiley:
prokkyshosty
30-05-11, 23:00
Wells, due to the creepy but wonderful Owl of God. :)
Wells, due to the creepy but wonderful Owl of God. :)
Wells, better outside than inside I think.
And does anyone know that awful Epstein monstrosity suspended in Llandaff? St. Davids is lovely I think.
Magnificat
30-05-11, 23:40
Architecturally, Lincoln is easily the most impressive building in this country.
King's College Chapel is, without doubt, one of finest ecclesiastical buildings in Europe.
VCC
Durham. Not just the cathedral but the whole fantastic setting. I lived on The Bailey right next to it as a student for a couple of years in the late sixties. Choral Evensong was daily taken for granted and I used its cloisters and nave as a shortcut to Palace Green.
Wells, better outside than inside I think.
And does anyone know that awful Epstein monstrosity suspended in Llandaff? St. Davids is lovely I think.
Apart from the lovely staircase... Llandaff's setting in the hollow is lovely though, especially when the roses are out!
Panjandrum
31-05-11, 07:51
Chartres is the daddy of them all.
50/50 between Worcester with the position in my [almost] favourite county and memories of the music I have heard there and Canterbury.
I haven't been to either of them for some years but used to attend CE at Canterbury fairly often and the history of the place is overwhelming. I wonder whether they still keep bits of Reculver down in the Crypt.
And I used to know a lot more about the architecture and windows than I do now as memory is going fast.:sadface:
antongould
31-05-11, 09:11
50/50 between Worcester with the position in my [almost] favourite county and memories of the music I have heard there and Canterbury.
I haven't been to either of them for some years but used to attend CE at Canterbury fairly often and the history of the place is overwhelming. I wonder whether they still keep bits of Reculver down in the Crypt.
And I used to know a lot more about the architecture and windows than I do now as memory is going fast.:sadface:
But have you ever been to Durham?
It is quite wonderful and right amidst the coalfields!
Not sure if anyone knows Gloucester, the Cloisters there are wonderful, as is the stained glass.
Salymap
Yes, Canterbury. The sense of the time when things were not quite so … organised and established? is immediate. I used to enjoy walking around and just breathing the air in the dark corners but not since they started charging for entrance (£9.00 now!) some 15 years ago. The town itself is going downhill fast since they built a monstrous shopping centre. Very sad.
Morning Doversoul, in some ways I'm glad that I can't get to Canterbury then. I didn't realise Cathedrals now charged people for looking round.
The history of the place is palpable and I'm glad I knew the area long ago.
doversoul, if you Gift Aid your entry fee to Canterbury that gives you free admission for a further 12 months. It is a major tourist attraction and costs a fortune to maintain but £9 seems a bit steep. Most Cathedrals charge now, usually around £4-£5. I think Durham is still free.
moeranbiogman
31-05-11, 11:33
Rochester. A peaceful island amid the Medway hubbub...
Anna
Thank you for the information on Gift Aid. I’ll certainly look into it. As you say, the cost of maintenance must be huge and I don’t object to paying to go inside the actual building. But what upset me when they started charging was the fact that you couldn’t even walk into the ground without paying. It has (had) a homely little garden at the back.
Serial_Apologist
31-05-11, 12:10
I once had the chance to sing in the choir at Guildford Cathedral, soon after its completion in the early 1960s. It is built in a neo-Gothic style - architecturally a sort of equivalent of the relationship between Herbert Howells's music and that of William Byrd. For singing Tallis Responses the echo is in my albeit limited experience unequalled, except maybe in the Taj Mahal!
Durham seems a popular choice on here, but I have to say I find all that macho Norman gigantism there pretty cold and daunting. Canterbury Cathedral too seems somehow overwhelming; one has to make several ascents from the West Wing entry point (only used for ceremonial occasions I believe) to the high alter and area behind, and not all the length of the interior is visible up the chancelry. St Andrews has been mentioned quickly in passing, and I strongly recommend a visit if you are in that part of... sheep land. The surrealism of being in the smallest city in the country is striking; but the building is in fact quite small for a cathedral - possibly smaller than one of the larger Perpendicular churches in Suffolk like Long Melford or Lavenham. The stone from which it is built makes for a lovely pink glow inside, especially enhanced by the sun shining through: I can't recall if there is any stained glass there.
For stained glass I don't think anything quite surpasses Notre Dame - not that I have ever visited any other of France's cathedrals - my parents swore (sic) by Rheims - but the modern windows in Canterbury are pretty fantastic. I just love the effect of light pouring through coloured panes. I can stand staring at traffic lights forever!!!
Its funny how different buildings carry their own special 'vibe'. I was not surprised, on asking the guide, to be informed that Ightham (sp?) Moat in Kent is haunted. There are stories of headless monks etc connected with Wells, but I doubt these, as I have always found the place somehow warm and enfolding in a strange but nice way. One could almost be led to believe in God, while in there...
S-A
doversoul, I just got the info from the Cathedral website. "UK tax payers may ‘Gift Aid’ their entrance fee which means that we can claim back 25% income tax. Your Gift Aid till ticket will then allow you free entry for 12 months. If you are not a UK tax payer, you can still enjoy 12 months free entry. Ask staff at the entrance gate for an ‘Annual Ticket’ form"
I assume this may also apply to other Cathedrals and worth checking out if anyone likes to pop in on a regular basis to their local one, as I used to when I worked round the corner from Hereford Cathedral.
In UK, Durham for me too.
In Europe - Burgos and a distant second Poitiers.
Elsewhere: the amazing Oscar Niemayr cathedral in Brasilia and the cathedral in Rio de Janeiro
Panjandrum
31-05-11, 12:31
Orvieto (http://www.travel-tidbits.com/tidbits/005930.shtml) takes some beating with its liquorice all-sort stone facing.
Serial_Apologist
31-05-11, 12:34
Keep all them guides you buy when you visit these wonderful places. Then you can go back at your leisure without spending any money or adding to you carbon footprint. I have a drawer full! :smiley:
Chris Newman
31-05-11, 12:37
For its amazing stained glass I would go for Chartres. For the clarity of light Nantes and Salisbury (the former lost its windows in the dreadful fire, I think in the 1970s) and I am biased with Salisbury as it is a five minute walk away, visible from all directions, appears to still be standing in the fields from the west and I can see the tip of the spire from a bedroom window.
Serial_Apologist
31-05-11, 12:51
For its amazing stained glass I would go for Chartres. For the clarity of light Nantes and Salisbury (the former lost its windows in the dreadful fire, I think in the 1970s) and I am biased with Salisbury as it is a five minute walk away, visible from all directions, appears to still be standing in the fields from the west and I can see the tip of the spire from a bedroom window.
You lucky fellow, you! :winkeye:
In Europe - Burgos and a distant second Poitiers.
I think in Poitiers it is rather the church of Notre-Dame-la Grande, with its marvellous romanesque front - or possibly the church of Saint-Hilaire-le-Grand - rather than the rather ordinary cathedral Saint-Pierre - which merits attention...
But in France I wd give preference to Chartres - Albi - Amiens - Laon - Reims - Strasbourg - Beauvais...
Eine Alpensinfonie
31-05-11, 14:56
St Asaph. Such a great venue to perform in.
Beauvais
is Beauvais as breathtaking as one might imagine?
is Beauvais as breathtaking as one might imagine?
I like Beauvais a lot. It is of course just a fragment - most of it fell down - so what is left is a tiny bit, which make it seem all the more impossibly tall...
To my earlier list I shd have also of course added Bourges - Rouen - Notre-Dame-de-Paris...
Can't really understand why Chris: Newman is so taken by Nantes - a very ordinary building, in an otherwise lovely town....
I too love both Ely and Chichester, also have a soft spot for (don't laugh) Coventry - more for what it represents than for what it looks/feels like. Southwell and Gloucester are both lovely, but in the end the one that warms my heart the most would have to be Ripon.
In UK, Durham for me too.
In Europe - Burgos and a distant second Poitiers.
In Europe: Durham :winkeye:, Reims, Albi, Pisa, Siena, Bamberg, Regensburg, Roskilde
Don Basilio
31-05-11, 17:02
Canterbury, off and away: the nave, crypt and choir are all quite different in style, and the interior seems to have lots of hidden nooks and levels. The plan, with rising ambulatory around the shrine-space is unique.
Exeter and York both have rather motherly charm.
On paper, Chartres ought to be best ever, but both times I have been there I have felt overwhelmingly depressed, for what may be personal reasons rather anything to do with the building.
My nomination for Best French Cathedral would be Amiens.
http://media-3.web.britannica.com/eb-media/35/20135-004-53E30E76.jpg
I must get to Llandaff some time. The Epstein divides opinion...
Albi is one of the strangest ecclesiastical buildings I have ever been in. And all that brick and darkness...........
Has to be Worcester for the architecture, the history and the fine choir - and because it's the nearest.
I was amused to read on the back cover of Trio Mediaeval's Worcester Ladymass CD that 'Worcester Cathedral (is) in the Malvern region of western England'. Pleased to see they've got the relative importance of our neighbouring towns/cities right. :biggrin:
Albi is one of the strangest ecclesiastical buildings I have ever been in. And all that brick and darkness...........
How true. Never been quite sure if I like it or just find it fascinating for its strangeness...
Canterbury, off and away: the nave, crypt and choir are all quite different in style, and the interior seems to have lots of hidden nooks and levels. The plan, with rising ambulatory around the shrine-space is unique.
Exeter and York both have rather motherly charm.
On paper, Chartres ought to be best ever, but both times I have been there I have felt overwhelmingly depressed, for what may be personal reasons rather anything to do with the building.
My nomination for Best French Cathedral would be Amiens.
http://media-3.web.britannica.com/eb-media/35/20135-004-53E30E76.jpg
I must get to Llandaff some time. The Epstein divides opinion...
I too think Amiens is wonderful. It was almost empty when I went on a Winter day and I enjoyed it immensely. It deserves a fine organ too though. In Spain, I also adore Seville and could sit and gaze at the high altar for hours...
I agree with many posters that there are some wonderful European Cathedrals, but they seem to lack heart - it is (and I suspect that here at least we will all be in agreement) the loss of the daily round of the Opus Dei, that throbbing heartbeat of musical prayer, that we alone have managed to save in these islands. Day by day choristers and lay-clerks, DoM's and organists striving to produce the best not for the 'audience' not for the clergy, not even for themselves, but for God. Without this these wonderful heaps of stone are at best architectural museums, at worst tourist attractions. Thank-you to all of them.
Serial_Apologist
31-05-11, 18:36
Well I'm no believer, but I admire these buildings for more than their being architectural museums or tourist attractions. The beauty, the sheer devotion to workmanship as an end in itself, not to mention the wisdom that went into their construction, often without the kind of mathematical or structural knowhow that leads to some modern monstrosities today, are surely also to be wondered at.
Many years ago I made my one and only visit to Cologne Cathedral. Inside, in the central apse, a Mercedes Benz was mounted on a revolving platform, illuminated by laser beams from on high (sic). It was on offer free if one entered a competition whose proceeds would be towards the building's upkeep. I couldn't help wondering what Jesus would have made of it all.
S-A
I agree with many posters that there are some wonderful European Cathedrals, but they seem to lack heart - it is (and I suspect that here at least we will all be in agreement) the loss of the daily round of the Opus Dei, that throbbing heartbeat of musical prayer, that we alone have managed to save in these islands. Day by day choristers and lay-clerks, DoM's and organists striving to produce the best not for the 'audience' not for the clergy, not even for themselves, but for God. Without this these wonderful heaps of stone are at best architectural museums, at worst tourist attractions. Thank-you to all of them.
Many thanks indeed! We owe them all a great deal. God bless all. Liz
I agree with many posters that there are some wonderful European Cathedrals, but they seem to lack heart - it is (and I suspect that here at least we will all be in agreement) the loss of the daily round of the Opus Dei, that throbbing heartbeat of musical prayer, that we alone have managed to save in these islands. Day by day choristers and lay-clerks, DoM's and organists striving to produce the best not for the 'audience' not for the clergy, not even for themselves, but for God. Without this these wonderful heaps of stone are at best architectural museums, at worst tourist attractions. Thank-you to all of them.
Absolutely right! What is more, English cathedrals and their choirs prosper in symbiosis: the masonry lives through the music, and the choirs are at their best inside the purpose-built stonework.
I've never yet entered an English cathedral that didn't talk to me in some way: St Paul's had the least to say. Any 'favourites' I might have are simply through personal associations - Lichfield, Winchester, Worcester, Durham, Lincoln, Canterbury. And the Baptistry window at Coventry is a worthy contribution to the tradition from the 20th century.
So many of the continental cathedrals that I've visited seemed cold and cheerless - only at Laon did I feel on holy ground, though Freiburg impressed me for no specific reason. For ten years throughout the 1980s, I took groups of kids to visit Chartres - I, like a previous poster, always found it dingy and depressing, and attributed the sensation to all those machine-gunners lurking in the shadows, poised to mow one down if one took an unauthorised photograph!
Sadly, I felt nothing in St Paul's and similarly inside Derby and Birmingham. I found SP cold and almost 'calculating' in its approach to visitors yet, just across the River, felt a great warmth of welcome at Southwark. Hmmm!
Lizzie, I knew someone who worked near Southwark Cathedral and somehow or other he arranged for me to be sent a newsletter/magazine called 'Over the Bridge' from there. A very friendly place I feel.
Lizzie, I knew someone who worked near Southwark Cathedral and somehow or other he arranged for me to be sent a newsletter/magazine called 'Over the Bridge' from there. A very friendly place I feel.
Absolutely Saly. Found everyone delightful there. Must go back again... Hope you're well. Love. Liz
Pretty much the last one I visited but I especially like Ely, Norwich and Worcester, largely because I've visited them the most. Oh yes, Truro too for its lovely music.
Over the airwaves there seems to me to be two clear frontrunners for being the most
... shall we say .. spiritual .. where the worship seems genuine and sincere.
Salisbury and St Albans.
Y Mab Afradlon
05-06-11, 10:24
I'm suprised no mention for York Minster ... sang there for a week and people were faultless. The big place is fascinating. I feel the Abbey needs a mention as well as St George's Windsor. Sadly the work of the German Army allowed sections of the Barmy Army to influence Llandaff. I remember the look on Prince Charles face as he sat underneath it on March 1st 1991. In addition Exeter and Hereford are worthy of a mention.
Lizzie, I knew someone who worked near Southwark Cathedral and somehow or other he arranged for me to be sent a newsletter/magazine called 'Over the Bridge' from there. A very friendly place I feel.
I was there a couple of weeks ago salymap, listening to a recital of Chopin Préludes given by a friends and his piano class colleagues.
The area is in complete turmoil (Crossrail?) and there is a huge new glass building, The Shard, going up right next door to Guy's Hospital and set to dwarf Guy's Tower.
http://www.londonbridgequarter.com/
My favourite cathedral? - I'm quite partial to this http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x7ow64_cathedral-city-cheddar-advert_shortfilms :smiley:
Southwell Minster and Worcester both very fine. For modern buildings I do like Liverpool's Metropolitan, particularly for its art work and stained glass - very effective.
Richard Tarleton
15-06-11, 17:25
I attended a mass in Santiago de Compostela cathedral (while there on an OU Spanish summer school) in which that amazing censer was deployed - filled with incense and ignited, it was hauled up by four monks and swung between the north and south transepts, almost decapitating those in its path and spitting sparks. I was wedged against a pillar close to the flight path. I saw the censer again a few days later, in its home in the library - it's about 6 ft high.
The music during the mass was dismal :sadface:
The worst Spanish (European?) cathedral has to be Cordoba, disfiguring the Mezquita as it does. A gross act of vandalism.
I attended a mass in Santiago de Compostela cathedral (while there on an OU Spanish summer school) in which that amazing censer was deployed - filled with incense and ignited, it was hauled up by four monks and swung between the north and south transepts, almost decapitating those in its path and spitting sparks. I was wedged against a pillar close to the flight path. I saw the censer again a few days later, in its home in the library - it's about 6 ft high.
The music during the mass was dismal :sadface:
The worst Spanish (European?) cathedral has to be Cordoba, disfiguring the Mezquita as it does. A gross act of vandalism.
Utterly agree about Cordoba. There's a Youtube video of that censer being used like a vast wrecking ball! Worth a look!
I attended a mass in Santiago de Compostela cathedral (while there on an OU Spanish summer school) in which that amazing censer was deployed - filled with incense and ignited, it was hauled up by four monks and swung between the north and south transepts, almost decapitating those in its path and spitting sparks. I was wedged against a pillar close to the flight path. I saw the censer again a few days later, in its home in the library - it's about 6 ft high.
The music during the mass was dismal :sadface:
The worst Spanish (European?) cathedral has to be Cordoba, disfiguring the Mezquita as it does. A gross act of vandalism.
Utterly agree about Cordoba. There's a Youtube video of that censer being used like a vast wrecking ball! Worth a look!
Utterly agree about Cordoba. There's a Youtube video of that censer being used like a vast wrecking ball! Worth a look!
Have you a link to that Lizzie, I cannot find it on YouTube. Thanks.
Derry's most famous cathedral is St.Columb's Cathedral.
http://veryderry.com/db/location.php?pano=13
(When you're there, you might like to take a look, in 'Locations', at the views of another historic edifice, Grianan.)
For the interior of the Cathedral:
http://www.virtualvisit-northernireland.com/gallery.aspx?dataid=55515&title=Houses%20and%20Heritage
While I'm at it, here is a view of St.Aengus' Church, in the shadow of Grianan'
http://www.geograph.ie/photo/1030541
Have you a link to that Lizzie, I cannot find it on YouTube. Thanks.
Oh dear! Don't think I have it now but will try when back from Belfast..
Richard Tarleton
16-06-11, 08:38
I seem to remember it also makes a guest appearance in Ridley Scott's Christopher Columbus film
Oh dear! Don't think I have it now but will try when back from Belfast..
Lizzie, I've found the clips now, what am amazing sight. Probably wouldn't be allowed here on the grounds of Health & Safety!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HBgNrreh8L8
Richard Tarleton
16-06-11, 18:24
(When you're there, you might like to take a look, in 'Locations', at the views of another historic edifice, Grianan.)
I climbed up the outside of that as a lad, circa 1960. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grianan_of_Aileach
I climbed up the outside of that as a lad, circa 1960. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grianan_of_Aileach
Many's the time I walked it from Derry, Richard, up by Sherriff's Mountain and back by Bridgend. (pheew)
I now drive there.
As it happens, I particularly remember being up there in July 1960 - was that you I saw hanging on for dear life?
The view from the parapet is amazing. I once found my house along the Foyle through binoculars.
Thanks for having a look. I'm sort of proud to share the things I like about my part of the country.
Lateralthinking1
16-06-11, 19:43
I like St Davids and York Minster. My favourite church is probably the Sagrada Familia.
Chris Newman
16-06-11, 21:42
Lizzie, I've found the clips now, what am amazing sight. Probably wouldn't be allowed here on the grounds of Health & Safety!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HBgNrreh8L8
Yes, indeed. The lady from H & S tapped a swinger on the shoulder and whispered in his ear. Not a male chauvinist comment: it is definitely a lady. :smiley:
gainasbass
09-07-11, 15:45
This is a late contribution to the thread, for which I apologise (owing to my status as a new member). In the UK, my choices are shaped by my being a northener, in places where I have lived, sung and worshipped. Accordingly my favourite has to be York Minster, followed by Lincoln, Ripon and Durham Cathedrals. In Normandy the Cathedrals of Bayeaux and Rouen are breathtaking.
Btw, I couldn't agree more that the beauty of our Anglican Cathedrals is enhanced by the daily round of the sung offices (especially remembering the halcyon days when, in addition to CE, the likes of York, Lincoln and St Paul's sang Matins on Tuesdays and Thursdays and Sung Eucharist on major Feast and Saints' Days!
Eine Alpensinfonie
17-08-11, 12:44
Duomo di Firenze (Florence Cathedral) is magnificent on the outside, but seems unbearably gloomy on the inside. I much prefer some of the smaller churches in the city.
Don Basilio
17-08-11, 17:08
Btw, I couldn't agree more that the beauty of our Anglican Cathedrals is enhanced by the daily round of the sung offices (especially remembering the halcyon days when, in addition to CE, the likes of York, Lincoln and St Paul's sang Matins on Tuesdays and Thursdays and Sung Eucharist on major Feast and Saints' Days!
But there is the daily weekday round: they just don't sing it all. (A Sung Eucharist is fairly standard now on festivals, in place of Evensong - was it previously the custom to have both the eucharist and evensong sung on the same day?)
In this country, Truro or Gloucester.
Abroad, Notre Dame de Paris - especially when the tourists aren't in. Rehearsing in there out of hours is extremely moving and very fun.
Also Our Lady of the Angels in LA. Looks like a car park from outside, but very very nice inside, deceptively spacious, as one might say.
Don Basilio
18-08-11, 12:41
Oo. Truro. I must go there one day. I'm a great fan of J L Pearson.
Cathedrals "after hours" are wonderful, aren't they? The easiest way to experience them is attending an early morning weekday service.
Keraulophone
18-08-11, 21:34
was it previously the custom to have both the eucharist and evensong sung on the same day? Until about ten years ago, Truro used to sing the Eucharist (full choir) at 7.15 am, with Solemn Choral Evensong later in the day. The pre-breakfast services were eventually abandoned, as the choir began to outnumber the congregation by an increasing margin, with an evening Eucharist sung instead. (The cooked breakfasts were often more memorable than the services.) There seem to be quite a few Cornish saints requiring our eucharistic attention, even though they may never have existed!
gainasbass
19-08-11, 00:25
But there is the daily weekday round: they just don't sing it all. (A Sung Eucharist is fairly standard now on festivals, in place of Evensong - was it previously the custom to have both the eucharist and evensong sung on the same day?)
An emphatic "yes".
gainasbass
19-08-11, 00:31
Keraulophone, very interesting. It would seem that the Cornish saints do require some following up!
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