View Full Version : Michael Gielen's Mahler
Somewhat to my surprise the current BBC Music Mag recommends the Gielen recording of Mahler 5 above all others calling it 'a balanced powerful recording [which] sets the seal on a magnificent 5th from a definitive cycle'.
I claim to know a thing or two about Mahler cycles but have to confess that I've never heard a note of Gielen's though I do recall broadcasts with the BBC SO many moons ago. 'Definitive cycle' seems a very bold claim to make with the likes of Bernstein, Abbado and Haitink among others readily available.
Has anyone got this 5th or indeed the whole cycle? Am I missing something?
Many years ago I heard the 6th when it was broadcast on CD Masters and was very impressed by it.
Gielen's Mahler might be more popular, or at least gain wider circulation, if the set wasn't so prohibitively expensive.
Gielen's Mahler might be more popular, or at least gain wider circulation, if the set wasn't so prohibitively expensive.
Yes, I noticed this as well. £130+ on Amazon whereas you can get Bertini for around £30.
Just had a look on Amazon- some excellent reviews there as well. And the Invisible Hand has informed me that the set is available for 79.07 from Play.com, which works out at 6 pounds per CD. Not so expensive really.
It's not a set that's really registered on my radar so far, but I think it warrants further investigation, especially at Play.com's price.
Gielen's is an excellent set, well played and well recorded. Like Bertini he gives us Mahler without over-interpreting. Along with Bertini it would be my top recommendation for anyone starting out in Mahler.
The set (Symphonies 1-9) has been at various prices in recent years. I got mine 3 years ago for 35 Euros, delivered, from fnac in France.
The 10th symphony and Das Lied are available separately.
Just had a look on Amazon- some excellent reviews there as well. And the Invisible Hand has informed me that the set is available for 79.07 from Play.com, which works out at 6 pounds per CD. Not so expensive really.
It's not a set that's really registered on my radar so far, but I think it warrants further investigation, especially at Play.com's price.
That seller is moviemars in the USA so I guess that you may have to pay some fees to HMR&C?
Caveat emptor!
Gielen's is an excellent set, well played and well recorded. Like Bertini he gives us Mahler without over-interpreting. Along with Bertini it would be my top recommendation for anyone starting out in Mahler.
The set (Symphonies 1-9) has been at various prices in recent years. .
Yes, I wdn't be without Gielen. I picked the set up pretty cheaply not all that long ago - probably from one of the amazons - certainly for less than £40...
It has a metalllic intensity which can be tiring - but if you're in the right mood, it really delivers.
If I was starting out and looking for a set - then Gielen - Bertini - Tennstedt - Zinman - Kubelik wd certainly be in my top ten...
I have sampled this series and like what I have heard. John is right, the cost has always been prohibitive
and even £85-90 is more than I want to pay for a Mahler cycle. It's Gielens ear for orchestral timbre and texture
for which I chiefly remember the set. To my way of thinking they are excellent 'morning' performances
whereas of an evening I'd prefer the sheer inspiration of (eg) a Tennstedt.
I have sampled this series and like what I have heard. John is right, the cost has always been prohibitive
and even £85-90 is more than I want to pay for a Mahler cycle. It's Gielens ear for orchestral timbre and texture
for which I chiefly remember the set. To my way of thinking they are excellent 'morning' performances
whereas of an evening I'd prefer the sheer inspiration of (eg) a Tennstedt.
A Gielen admirer, here. The ear for orchestral timbre and texture probably fits with how I hear Mahler (I never got on with Tennstedt - sorry!), but I wouldn't say Gielen lacks intensity. The final movement of his recording of the 10th still shocks me, though I've heard it more than a dozen times. I also don't think he neglects the 'archival' material in Mahler to present a 'modernist' version (sorry again for the ''s) - that would be far too simple a description. There are other recordings I'd want of particular symphonies (won't go into those :)) and I agree Bertini's is a fascinating set ... but none of Gielen's recordings would be far from my first choice.
I have his Das Lied von der Erde, but haven't listened to it yet.
Just had a look on Amazon- some excellent reviews there as well. And the Invisible Hand has informed me that the set is available for 79.07 from Play.com, which works out at 6 pounds per CD. Not so expensive really.
Not a conductor I'm familiar with at all and still pricey compared to Bertini or either of the Bernstein sets.
Not a conductor I'm familiar with at all
He's one of the most important conductors of the past 50 years - certainly in terms of the work he's done in Germany performing contemporary music. He was also an important opera conductor at Frankfurt, in one of the most innovative houses in Europe. A great, great musician (also an interesting composer).
He's one of the most important conductors of the past 50 years - certainly in terms of the work he's done in Germany performing contemporary music.
Some of the individual issues of the Mahler Symphonies have interesting couplings, e.g. the Berg Seven Early Songs.
PS Thinking back to the old CD Masters days - I remember Rob or Jonathan playing a *very* nice Gielen recording of Brahms 2.
I agree absolutely, arcades. Gielen is a quite outstanding conductor, and his Mahler is, to my ears, sans pareil. I got the boxed set a few years ago via Amazon (following Rob Cowan's recommendation). I paid a sensible price (less than £40 IIRC) but it arrived without the programme booklet. The suppliers were entirely unhelpful regarding resolving the omission, but Hänssler Classics sent me the booklet straight away when I referred the problem to them. I got his recording of a Cooke performing version of the sketches for Mahler's 10th on its release. Gielen is one of the very few conductors of note to have the guts and integrity to change his mind re. Cooke's work on the 10th. He originally eschewed it, but then recanted and delivered one of the finest performances of the edition. I have yet to hear his Das Lied von der Erde, but will resolve that situation a.s.a.p.
There's an earlier recording of the 8th on Sony. That's worth getting too.
[Amazon tell me I bought the set in June 2005, but that seems to be too long ago for them to be able to confirm what I paid.]
Agree absolutely with Bryn's assessment. I don't have all the discs in the cycle but those I do have are mighty impressive; very cogent, well-structured readings. That Sony 8 is good too.
Slightly OT, his Gurre-lieder is probably the best in the catalogue, IMO.
If anyone would like to sample Gielen's Mahler his Symphonies 3, 8 and Das Lied are available on Spotify.
Thanks for that, John. I have not previously been tempted by Spotify, but the opportunity to hear Gielen's Das Leid von der Erde (which I have on order in CD format), 6 Pieces (Webern), etc. is too good to miss.
Bryn,
Make sure the you switch off volume normalization (Edit/Preferences "Set the same volume level for all tracks")
Oh, and if you are tempted by the 320 kbps bit rate of the Premium subscription - only a small minority of albums are encoded at 320 kbps, despite the impression (verging on fraudulent) that Spotify likes to give. (Most users will be unable to tell whether an album is encoded at 320kbps and we all know that our perceptions are influenced by what we expect to hear.)
Having said that - Spotify is a very handy resource for sampling composers/works/recordings.
Some of the individual issues of the Mahler Symphonies have interesting couplings, e.g. the Berg Seven Early Songs.
PS Thinking back to the old CD Masters days - I remember Rob or Jonathan playing a *very* nice Gielen recording of Brahms 2.
I have the individual issues, and the couplings are certainly interesting :) (the Berg Seven Early Songs aren't there ... they would work well, though)
1 has Ives' Central Park in the Dark and The Unanswered Question; 2 has Kurtág's Stele and Schönberg's Kol Nidre; 3 has extracts from Schubert's Rosamunde music intermixed with Webern's op. 6 orchestral pieces; 4 has Schreker's Prelude to a Drama; 6 has Berg's 3 Pieces for orchestra; 8 has Schönberg's Die Jakobsleiter; and 9 has Boulez's Rituel: In Memoriam Bruno Maderna and Notations I - IV and VII.
The Brahms symphonies on Hänssler are excellent. There's also a Beethoven symphony set for EMI Electrola which is very worth knowing, if copies are available. Attentive to Beethoven's metronome marks. I can't think of any other recent conductor who has been so deeply and consistently involved in the performance of contemporary music who has conducted the 'mainstream' as well as Gielen. Contemporary music being central to his work - rather than something he also does (in that sense the Mahler couplings are themselves mainstream, of course).
There's also a Beethoven symphonies survey from Gielen (recorded between 1997 and 2000) on three Euroarts DVDs. The audio option are LPCM (48/16) 2 channel stereo, 5.1 DTS and 5.1 Dolby Digital. He's not quite as attentive to Beethoven's tempi as, say, Norrington (with the Stuttgarters), but far, far more so than that Tielemann fellow.
arcades,
Apologies - I must have been thinking about the Three Pieces for Orchestra and got muddled up.
Yes, I noticed this as well. £130+ on Amazon whereas you can get Bertini for around £30.I bought Bertini's set recently for around £22 from Amazom. I think currently it's £21.99.
mathias broucek
04-07-11, 08:35
"Gielen's is an excellent set, well played and well recorded. Like Bertini he gives us Mahler without over-interpreting."
Quite agree. I managed to get the whole set for 12.99 as a 320kb download from Tesco(!) Wouldn't pay more than about £25-£30 for any Mahler cycle given the bargains about
He's an interesting conductor - there's some good recent Schubert and a rather fine Bruckner 8 (like the Mahler with an unusual filler). The orchestra is pretty good if not as good as (say) the Bavarian radio orchestra.
"Gielen's is an excellent set, well played and well recorded. Like Bertini he gives us Mahler without over-interpreting."
Quite agree. I managed to get the whole set for 12.99 as a 320kb download from Tesco(!) Wouldn't pay more than about £25-£30 for any Mahler cycle given the bargains about
You seem to have been lucky there then. Currently Tesco prices seem much higher than that, with some individual symphonies themselves being quite pricey.
Just ordered the Sony Mahler 8 for under £4 from Amazon market place. Will sample the other Gielen symphonies on Spotify and/or Napster.
Also found the last movement of Brahms 3 on Napster. Starts well, then slows down fractionally. I like parts of this symphony white hot - but hardly anyone plays it that way!
This gets close at times though. There is a balance to be struck between reflectiveness and forward movement.
Some conductors emphasise the reflective nature of this work too much IMO.
The SWR orchestra is pushed hard at times, but copes. Gielen does seem to be a conductor worth hearing.
I recall Rob Cowan playing all the Mahler symphonies on CD Masters a few years ago and commenting that Gielen's cycle was the one to have. I duly bought it at around 35 Euro from a Fnac store in Paris. One of the best buys I have ever made.
mathias broucek
05-07-11, 09:24
"I like parts of this symphony white hot"
Dave - try to sample Celi's SWR Stuttgart Brahms (DG) which is very exciting. His Munich versions are also wonderful but more for texture than heat!
He's an interesting conductor - there's some good recent Schubert and a rather fine Bruckner 8 (like the Mahler with an unusual filler). The orchestra is pretty good if not as good as (say) the Bavarian radio orchestra.
The only Schubert I know of are the Rosamunde pieces and the 'Great' C Major from the late 90s/early 2000s. Very exciting performance of the symphony (not unlike Norrington's Stuttgart recording, which is even more exciting). There's a recent CD of Schumann 2 and 3.
He's much more than an interesting conductor if his work with contemporary (generally Central European) music is included in the picture. Wikipedia gives some sort of an idea, though a very partial one http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Gielen.
[edit: from a brief Google I see he conducted the UK premiere of Nono's Il canto sospeso with the BBCSO in 1970 (Festival Hall). The likelihood of something like that happening today is vanishingly small, I suspect]
I have yet to hear his Das Lied von der Erde, but will resolve that situation a.s.a.p.
I'm very interested in what people's opinions are on this recording.
I have heard this recording online and liked a lot of it. I was puzzled though by this "recent release" with Siegfried Jerusalem. It seems that his parts were recorded in 1992 and the rest with Cornelia Kallisch in 2002. Well it flows all beautifully for me, I like the whole interpretation, Jeresalem's voice is darker/heavier than most but works well I think, but I'm not sure whether Kallisch quite carries it off. The best of her singing is gorgeous - a liquid golden voice - but there are parts which are a little strained. Going back to Haitink/Baker (I won't go back further) and relistening I hear Baker at other places straining a bit too, but she carries off the climaxes well. I'm wondering now if I'm carrying an ideal of this work around in my head, gleaned from many performances, which I will never hear!
"I like parts of this symphony white hot"
Dave - try to sample Celi's SWR Stuttgart Brahms (DG) which is very exciting. His Munich versions are also wonderful but more for texture than heat!Interesting. I have the Munich set (EMI) - didn't realise there's another by him. I only once tried to get into one of his concerts, in Bucharest, and failed. I think I should have been more assertive and waived loads of dollars around, maybe!
FrankieP23
17-07-11, 00:53
Personally I really enjoyed Gielen's 5th :)
However, I find myself comparing every M5 recording I hear to Barshai's 1999 recording, which is just stunning. I find it far more exciting and fresh than any other I've heard, Gielen's included.
If you haven't heard it, I would very very highly recommend it: it's only about £4.85 - definitely the best value CD I've ever bought. I listen to it frequently and never tire of it: the first and second movements in particular are astonishing :)
Sadly he didn't record many of the others - 9 is again brilliant, with the Moscow Radio Symphony Orch (my favourite alongside Abbado's), and he did his own completion of the 10th which is available too. (I prefer the Cooke completion, I think it's more subtle).
I hope Barshai's Mahler becomes more known - he is so underappreciated!
FrankieP23
17-07-11, 01:22
I've just read my last post in context and realised it doesn't make much sense... Sorry- I thought for some reason that we were still discussing Gielens M5, as I hadn't noticed all the posts! I'm new to this, sorry!
I've just read my last post in context and realised it doesn't make much sense... Sorry- I thought for some reason that we were still discussing Gielens M5, as I hadn't noticed all the posts! I'm new to this, sorry!
Welcome to these boards, Frankie :ale:
These things happen, and please don't worry about this, that's how threads develop.
Re Barshai: that Brilliant 2CD set with 5 and 10 is a bargain indeed.
Barshai's 10 IMO leans to much on "early/middle" Mahler (the 5th e.g.) in stead of taking 9 and LvdE into account (too many doublings of the winds, e.g.).
Nevertheless it is an achievement, and it sounds really like Mahler (though not the "late" one).
That the work was recorded immediately after 9/11 is an incredible coincidence too.
perfect wagnerite
17-07-11, 09:20
I agree with all the praise for Gielen's Mahler here - and eMusic members can download the individual symphonies relatively cheaply (although you have to put up with eMusic's less than generous bitrates)
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