HIP but not HIPP...our Nige at the Proms [Archive]

aka Calum Da Jazbo

09-09-11, 23:36

Serial_Apologist

09-09-11, 23:41

i find kennedy's renunciation of anything that marks the establishment in appearance and speech admirable if somewhat unappealing ... however he is an artist and deserves the respect and courtesy that requires such things to be put aside ... this was a deeply serious and brilliant performance, playing of deep concentration and sensitivity with bravura where needed ... an incredible combination of 'flow' and control ... for me one of the best proms this year

Hmmm. I seem to be on my jack with this one, having found the "jazz" pieces glib beyond belief; and I'm still not sure about 18th century baroque pieces being played with gushings of rubato, maing them sound as if composed by Mendelssohn. :erm:

ardcarp

09-09-11, 23:58

and I'm still not sure about 18th century baroque pieces being played with gushings of rubato,

There's plenty of performers/performances around that you will approve of, SA. Given the playing style espoused by NK (and the majority of solo violinists, in fact) I thought the Partita was tasteful and not overburdened wth false expressive devices. I thought the speed relationships between 'movements' were nicely judged. And gushing? Surely not.

aka Calum Da Jazbo

10-09-11, 00:13

well for the avoidance of doubt i was referring to the partita in d min and the prelude ....

the 'jazz' was ordinary but highly accomplished and fun ... i liked the bass player ...

Ariosto

10-09-11, 08:11

The bass player was wonderful, and NK's playing ws a lot of fun. He appreciates other real musicians as well, and his sense of humour is better than a lot of so called "comedians."

There is no British player (or non-British for that matter) that could stand there and give such a committed and musicianly performance of the Unnacompanied Bach. Even if I very occassionally would have played the odd bar differently myself, I respect his point of view.

Kennedy can play any British violinist in the last 40+ years into the ground, and the other's (including some dire foreigners) are only comparitively at about ASBRSM grade III level.

I've just got a secondhand copy of his CD made in 1990 of the Brahms concerto with Tendstedt, and I'm really knocked out by it. Two really outstanding musicians collaborating and Brahms is the winner. Great performance.

And I totally agree with Nigel's criticism of HIP and also of conductors. His is a voice in the wilderness.

Al R Gando

10-09-11, 08:14

however he is an artist and deserves the respect and courtesy that requires such things to be put aside

Respect and courtesy which he does not extend to others, regrettably.

Instead he confines himself to personal attacks on his colleagues, suggesting that they're incapable of playing baroque music, and implying that this repertoire should be reserved for himself alone. Unwilling to be bothered with any of the research or first-hand source material of the period, he dismisses it all with his ever-burgeoning hubris.

I wonder how orchestral players who work with him feel about being told that they're no-hopers? It's all very unattractive indeed, and I suspect this curmudgeonly misanthropy (writing-off entire nations-full of violinists with a wave of his hand) bodes ill for his future.

I will stick with Rachel Podger, Andrew Manze, OAE, Mullova, Biondi, Giardino Armonico, Mutter, Kremer, Cafe Zimmermann, Red Priest, Joshua Bell, the greatly-missed Monica Huggett, and others whose performances enthrall and inspire me. I can't listen to Kennedy any longer - his bilious attacks on his fellow musicians have tainted his performances for me. His monstrous ego is too large for my cd-player these days. Music is about something a lot bigger than one man's overweening ambition.

waldhorn

10-09-11, 08:17

:ok:
:ok:
:ok:

Ariosto

10-09-11, 08:23

Respect and courtesy which he does not extend to others, regrettably.

Instead he confines himself to personal attacks on his colleagues, suggesting that they're incapable of playing baroque music, and implying that this repertoire should be reserved for himself alone. Unwilling to be bothered with any of the research or first-hand source material of the period, he dismisses it all with his ever-burgeoning hubris.

I wonder how orchestral players who work with him feel about being told that they're no-hopers? It's all very unattractive indeed, and I suspect this curmudgeonly misanthropy (writing-off entire nations-full of violinists with a wave of his hand) bodes ill for his future.

I will stick with Rachel Podger, Andrew Manze, OAE, Mullova, Biondi, Giardino Armonico, Mutter, Kremer, Cafe Zimmermann, Red Priest, Joshua Bell, the greatly-missed Monica Huggett, and others whose performances enthrall and inspire me. I can't listen to Kennedy any longer - his bilious attacks on his fellow musicians have tainted his performances for me. His monstrous ego is too large for my cd-player these days. Music is about something a lot bigger than one man's overweening ambition.
WHAT AN ABSOLUTE LOAD OF OLD CODSWALLOP!!

I've recently spoken with orchestral players who have and are working with him and I never hear any of the BS that you are attributing them with.

And quite a lot of those fiddlers you mention I would pay to avoid. (Not quite all).

He follows in the great Menuhin tradition. And he has spent years studying the Bach, and he can at least play the notes and in tune which is more than the likes of Manze can, who sounds like a year one beginner.

Al R Gando

10-09-11, 08:30

WHAT AN ABSOLUTE LOAD OF OLD CODSWALLOP!!

Well, that was a deeply-considered and nuanced response, wasn't it?

Eine Alpensinfonie

10-09-11, 08:35

There are two conflicting issues here:
1. Nigel Kennedy's great musicicanship
2. The massive chip on his shoulder.

As for HIP/HIPP - N.K. trying to be "hip" is incredibly embarrassing; but at least one musician is prepared to stand and challenge the fashionable tidal wave of HIPP guesswork.

Al R Gando

10-09-11, 08:36

Ariosto

10-09-11, 08:37

I'm pleased you agree. You obviously understand what I'm saying.

PS Are you a string player? An orchestral msusician? Do you play the D minor Partita?

Ariosto

10-09-11, 08:45

For those who (like Ariosto, apparently) didn't read it, Kennedy's broadside against the entire musical world, and other broken-down no-hopers who can't find third position, can be read here (http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2011/aug/13/nigel-kennedy-violinists-bach) in The Guardian.I most certainly DID read it (here you are making assumptions yet again) and I posted that I agreed with it.

"Kennedy, who is acknowledged as one of the world's leading violin virtuosos, is somewhat unusual among musicians in his willingness to speak frankly. In 2008, he dismissed star conductors as egocentrics more interested in money and prestige than developing a musical relationship with an orchestra. He even questioned whether conducting was an art, asking: "Why would you want to stand there waving a stick when you could be playing an instrument?"

I agree totally.

"Kennedy is also withering when it comes to violinists from the influential New York school of Ivan Galamian, whom he accused of sacrificing soul in favour of technical virtuosity. "What they lacked was rhythmic ingenuity, dynamic sophistication and architectural awareness," he said, adding up to a pervasive "self-satisfied smugness of sound".

Well, he should know, he studied there and shared a room with a past friend of mine, and he's not the only one by far who has things to say about I G and D De Lay.

But what do you know about such things, Mr Gando, I ask?

Eine Alpensinfonie

10-09-11, 08:52

By all means discuss Mr Kennedy's views, playing style, etc., but please try not to beat each other up in the process.

:winkeye:

:hug: ???

Ariosto

10-09-11, 08:56

By all means discuss Mr Kennedy's views, playing style, etc., but please try not to beat each other up in the process.

:winkeye:

:hug: ???If you think that's beating each other up should should be here on a Saturday night after the pubs shut. It took ten of 'em to hold me down the other nite.

Al R Gando

10-09-11, 09:08

PS Are you a string player? An orchestral msusician? Do you play the D minor Partita?

None of which has any bearing at all on this discussion. You need to mind your manners, Ariosto.

It took ten of 'em to hold me down the other nite.

Ah, that sounds more like the usual way you "discuss" the nuances of playing Bach's unaccompanied partitas. :doh:

Richard Tarleton

10-09-11, 09:09

He is no less critical of contemporary Russian interpreters, arguing that the sense of reflective inwardness appropriate to Bach is lost in performances more appropriate to a musical showman such as Paganini.

I wonder to whom he was referring here? I sat in the second row centre in the Barbican for a performance of the D Minor Partita by Vengerov - he gave two recitals of Bach, Beethoven and Brahms on successive nights in 2004. A performance of great profundity and inner (and outer) stillness which went to the heart of the piece. Showmanship entirely absent, except where it belonged, in his encores.

Only 3 sets on my shelves - Milstein, Josef Suk and Mullova's 2009 version. I often play the Mullova. I'm a plucker and own the music for the Segovia transcription for guitar and occasionally try to pick my way through the easier bits as a form of relaxation (no hope of ever playing it).

I can't get past Nige's persona I'm afraid, I can't watch him and it gets worse when he speaks.

Ariosto

10-09-11, 09:50

I wonder to whom he was referring here? I sat in the second row centre in the Barbican for a performance of the D Minor Partita by Vengerov - he gave two recitals of Bach, Beethoven and Brahms on successive nights in 2004. A performance of great profundity and inner (and outer) stillness which went to the heart of the piece. Showmanship entirely absent, except where it belonged, in his encores.

Only 3 sets on my shelves - Milstein, Josef Suk and Mullova's 2009 version. I often play the Mullova. I'm a plucker and own the music for the Segovia transcription for guitar and occasionally try to pick my way through the easier bits as a form of relaxation (no hope of ever playing it).

I can't get past Nige's persona I'm afraid, I can't watch him and it gets worse when he speaks.

Then I think that as you say, you have the problem. But of course, we can speak as we find.

Of the three Bach recordings you mention, I'm not sure if I've heard Mullover, or rather I probably have but can't remember it. I admire Suk greatly but have never heard his Bach.

But Milstein has always, along with Menuhin, been in my opinion, the Bach performances one measures all other Bach interpretations against.

I have mixed feelings about Venegerov. I have to admire his playing in many ways and his huge personality. I have heard him play Bach badly, but maybe that was a one off.

I'm going to ignore Mr Gando's comments as they appear not to be worthy of an answer, and he does seem to be hung up on "nuances."

Al R Gando

10-09-11, 10:04

I'm going to ignore Mr Gando's comments as they appear not to be worthy of an answer, and he does seem to be hung up on "nuances."

Well, thank goodness for that! The musical opinions of "CODSWALLOP"-shouters aren't worth fourpence anyhow. 'Ooo needs dem bloody nuances, anyhow, eh? Took ten of 'em to 'old me dahn! :doh:

Mr Pee

10-09-11, 10:11

Give me Vengerov over Kennedy any day. There's no comparison! I've always found Kennedy's tone rather thin and unpleasant. I never understood the hype that built up around him, or agreed with the rave reviews for his Elgar concerto disc. But then - :yikes:controversy alert:yikes:-I've never really liked Menuhin's style either, so I suppose that's my taste. But at least Menuhin didn't adopt a faux-Cockney persona and act like a clown.

I'm not sure if I've heard Mullover

I certainly haven't. I've heard MullOVA....

Ariosto

10-09-11, 10:22

Give me Vengerov over Kennedy any day. There's no comparison! I've always found Kennedy's tone rather thin and unpleasant. I never understood the hype that built up around him, or agreed with the rave reviews for his Elgar concerto disc. But then - :yikes:controversy alert:yikes:-I've never really liked Menuhin's style either, so I suppose that's my taste. But at least Menuhin didn't adopt a faux-Cockney persona and act like a clown.

I certainly haven't. I've heard MullOVA....

Sorry about me spelling mr pee - I ALWAYS get Mullova mixed up with PULLOVER. Maybe it's her wooly sound ...

Last point ever, Mr Gando, I would just like to thank you for reporting me, keep up the splendid work.

Al R Gando

10-09-11, 10:24

I certainly haven't. I've heard MullOVA....

She obviously ain't played dahn 'is pub.

Richard Tarleton

10-09-11, 10:28

Of the three Bach recordings you mention, I'm not sure if I've heard Mullover, or rather I probably have but can't remember it. I admire Suk greatly but have never heard his Bach.

But Milstein has always, along with Menuhin, been in my opinion, the Bach performances one measures all other Bach interpretations against.

I think Mullova has recorded the sonatas and partitas twice - this is the second of her two versions, recorded (so the sleeve tells me) on her 1750 Guadagnini with gut strings and baroque bow. I don't know if the Suk version ever made its way onto CD, I have it on LPs.

If Nige's persona was genuine it would be easier, but it's so palpably assumed, along with the carefully distressed clothing. I'm with Mr Pee on this one. There's clearly a mismatch between his playing and his persona. Fortunately there are plenty of alternatives!

Serial_Apologist

10-09-11, 10:51

Richard Tarleton

10-09-11, 10:56

And as one who was el(ectro)cuted for placement as the main treble soloist in the school choir aged 11 there ain't nuffink wrong wiv 'is hacksent neever!

The trouble is, it's not his - he's undergone a process which was the reverse of the one you went through at 11, S_A

Al R Gando

10-09-11, 10:58

Last point ever, Mr Gando, I would just like to thank you for reporting me, keep up the splendid work.

You're most welcome! And now I must scuttle, because I have a Dress Rehearsal this afternoon, then we're hoping to make it to a concert my friend's conducting tonight. Do give my best regards to all your mates at your pub. :ale::ale::ale: Lan' Of 'Ope An' Gloree, eh? :magic: I'm sure you'll be leading the sing-along in the bar! :laugh:

Al R Gando

10-09-11, 11:05

I think Mullova has recorded the sonatas and partitas twice - this is the second of her two versions, recorded (so the sleeve tells me) on her 1750 Guadagnini with gut strings and baroque bow.

The Mullova recording rarely gets shelved-back into the cd-racks at my house, and is usually lurking around the cd-player :) Although the gut strings do certainly make a different sound, it's the bow which shapes the phrasing and articulation that determine this insightful and engaging performance.

Here's
http://youtu.be/2oYQ3pAJKVM showing how bowing (with a baroque bow) informs the phrasing. (YouTube). No punk haircut. No outrageous clothes. No gobby self-promotion. Just the music :star: She's greatly missed.

Ariosto

10-09-11, 11:07

I think Mullova has recorded the sonatas and partitas twice - this is the second of her two versions, recorded (so the sleeve tells me) on her 1750 Guadagnini with gut strings and baroque bow. I don't know if the Suk version ever made its way onto CD, I have it on LPs.

If Nige's persona was genuine it would be easier, but it's so palpably assumed, along with the carefully distressed clothing. I'm with Mr Pee on this one. There's clearly a mismatch between his playing and his persona. Fortunately there are plenty of alternatives!
The Mullova second recording sounds interesting and (my joking apart) I will try and hear it. I particularly like Guadanini's and would be interested to hear the effect of gut strings. The one I tried was with a modern set up. I'm not so sure about the baroque bow, but I do realise it makes it easier with some chords. Does she play at A440 pitch or lower? That may also be a decider for me, or maybe not.

With Nige perhaps we should all ignore his persona? If I measure the playing against just about everyone else he comes out as at least equal to the best and better by a long way than most. Of course he doesn't look as good as those pretty girls, and I WOULD kick him out of bed, but at least he can play them into the ground. And to be honest, I was surprised at his very pure reading of the Bach. This and other reasons makes me suspicious of the scholarship of some of the other spouters, and one in particular, on these boards.

I'm told by a real authority on these matters that my enthusiasm in his support is strong. :winkeye: It may sound over the top but in fact when we have such a talented British musician of world class stature then perhaps, just maybe, we should give him lots of support an encouragement. After all, it doesn't happen that often that we have a Nige to sing about.

Richard Tarleton

10-09-11, 11:12

Does she play at A440 pitch or lower? That may also be a decider for me, or maybe not.

Again I refer to the sleeve note which tells us she plays at A=415.

Serial_Apologist

10-09-11, 11:31

Here's [...] showing how bowing (with a baroque bow) informs the phrasing. (YouTube). No punk haircut. No outrageous clothes. No gobby self-promotion. Just the music :star: She's greatly missed.

Absolutely beautiful, Al R Gando, and many thanks for posting that clip. While she was only playing short illustrative passages, I didn't note any of the rubato I heard in Nigel Kennedy's performance of the Bach.

Ariosto

10-09-11, 11:31

Hmmm. I seem to be on my jack with this one, having found the "jazz" pieces glib beyond belief; and I'm still not sure about 18th century baroque pieces being played with gushings of rubato, maing them sound as if composed by Mendelssohn. :erm:

I'm really amazed that you say that! His was a fairly straight reading, and there was certainly no "gushings of rubato." There are many performers of these works around who take far more liberties, and that has been going on for more than 70 years. I know the D minor well as I play it myself, and I know the possibilities. It was mostly in pretty strict time, with slight allowances made for the odd "nuance" as someone with excellent academic qualifications on these boards has described it...:whistle:

EDIT: I'm off to try a Guadanini with gut strings now so you will all be pleased to hear I won't be able to answer any more queries ... until much later, that is.:winkeye:

Serial_Apologist

10-09-11, 11:37

I'm really amazed that you say that! His was a fairly straight reading, and there was certainly no "gushings of rubato." There are many performers of these works around who take far more liberties, and that has been going on for more than 70 years. I know the D minor well as I play it myself, and I know the possibilities. It was mostly in pretty strict time, with slight allowances made for the odd "nuance" as someone with excellent academic qualifications on these boards has described it...:whistle:

EDIT: I'm off to try a Guadanini with gut strings now so you will all be pleased to hear I won't be able to answer any more queries ... until much later, that is.:winkeye:

:ok:

Have fun! See you later, Ariosto :smiley:

Ariosto

10-09-11, 12:00

The Mullova recording rarely gets shelved-back into the cd-racks at my house, and is usually lurking around the cd-player :) Although the gut strings do certainly make a different sound, it's the bow which shapes the phrasing and articulation that determine this insightful and engaging performance.

Here's
http://youtu.be/2oYQ3pAJKVM showing how bowing (with a baroque bow) informs the phrasing. (YouTube). No punk haircut. No outrageous clothes. No gobby self-promotion. Just the music :star: She's greatly missed.

If you like the rasping sound and the bulges on every note, then that's fine. I just prefer other ways of doing things.

Caliban

10-09-11, 12:50

I can't get past Nige's persona I'm afraid, I can't watch him and it gets worse when he speaks.

You and me both. I switched on the BBC4 concert for approximately 4 seconds - don't want it in the house thanks. Definitely, as they say, a face for radio. I have two or three of his recordings, and usually manage to blot out the recollection of what a [*supply preferred noun*] he is. Then again I haven't listened to any of them for a while...

Has he dropped the retch-inducing, pretentious surname-only branding? Radio Times etc seems to bill him in conventional first name - surname fashion

EdgeleyRob

10-09-11, 13:09

I can't get past Nige's persona I'm afraid, I can't watch him

Watching on television I found that a few seconds into the partita I wasn't even aware of him.I was completely transfixed by the music.I am no expert, just a music lover, but I thought the chaconne was stunning.

Richard Tarleton

10-09-11, 13:16

Watching on television I found that a few seconds into the partita I wasn't even aware of him.I was completely transfixed by the music.I am no expert, just a music lover, but I thought the chaconne was stunning.

He's a bit like Grayson Perry, the persona is part of the deal. He's so in-your-face with it that he makes it impossible for - some of us at any rate - to ignore it.

Ariosto

10-09-11, 14:22

Watching on television I found that a few seconds into the partita I wasn't even aware of him.I was completely transfixed by the music.I am no expert, just a music lover, but I thought the chaconne was stunning.

Nice to find some real music lovers with excellent taste, and a fair degree of expertise, EdgeleyRob, there aren't many of us left.

Too many prefer Grade V beginners with rasping sounds and horrible bulges!! Makes you wonder what future there is for classical music when all these precious people who love HIP kick the hip replacement bucket.

Mr Pee

10-09-11, 14:25

He's a bit like Grayson Perry, the persona is part of the deal. He's so in-your-face with it that he makes it impossible for - some of us at any rate - to ignore it.

When the personality- or image- gets in the way of the music, then the music inevitably suffers. That is the problem with NK.

MrGongGong

10-09-11, 14:35

When the personality- or image- gets in the way of the music, then the music inevitably suffers. That is the problem with NK.
surely its "all about the music" and nothing else ?
or does that just apply to orchestras from dodgy regimes ?

Eine Alpensinfonie

10-09-11, 14:38

surely its "all about the music" and nothing else ?
or does that just apply to orchestras from dodgy regimes ?

Well if the Pittsburg SO or the Israel PO had turned up dressed in bin-liners, that would have been OK? :erm:

Ariosto

10-09-11, 14:43

When the personality- or image- gets in the way of the music, then the music inevitably suffers. That is the problem with NK.I'm afraid I have to disagree Mr Pee - but I know as a man you can take that on the chin!

I think there is a problem here, because NK played all the Bach standing rock solid, eyes closed most of the time, and almost faultlessly from memory, and delivered a very very sincere version which is probably unique to him.

It was only later that he did the showman act, and even then I found it entertaining.

If you and other people on here cannot divorce the person from the music, then there is something wrong with you. I would say rightly or wrongly, that you have a prejudice against him because he is an affront to you perception of how people should behave in the classical world. You prefer old fashioned (often false) humility and dress code, and you close your ears to the reality of what you are hearing. It's easy then to find reasons why you don't think much of his playing.

Maybe you should perform all the Bach partitas on the clarinet at the RAH and have a presentation which fits in with the establishment's expectations. The rest of us can then enjoy and benefit from Nige's performances and wallow in our own ignorance.

tony yyy

10-09-11, 14:45

Only 3 sets on my shelves - Milstein, Josef Suk and Mullova's 2009 version. I often play the Mullova. I'm a plucker and own the music for the Segovia transcription for guitar and occasionally try to pick my way through the easier bits as a form of relaxation (no hope of ever playing it).I heard Mullova play the D minor Partita in Bristol some years ago. She'd just starting using gut strings but not a baroque bow. I thought it was a wonderful performance. It's interesting that you mention a guitar transcription - one of the best performances of the Chaconne I've heard was given by John Williams.

I also enjoyed watching Nigel Kennedy's performance on TV and wasn't particularly bothered by his 'persona'.

french frank

10-09-11, 15:09

Too many prefer Grade V beginners with rasping sounds and horrible bulges!! Makes you wonder what future there is for classical music when all these precious people who love HIP kick the hip replacement bucket.I think it's a matter of differing tastes rather than superior/inferior discernment :smiley:

As I neither have a television nor read the papers I am shielded from such excesses which would - I'm sure - outrage me, should my delicate eau de rose sensibility ever encounter them. I have just Grumiaux and John Holloway playing the Bach sonatas and partitas. Holloway suits me fine: I seek no other.

By the way, perhaps we should have a separate discussion as to whether professional musicians necessarily have a more profound understanding, a deeper appreciation, of the music than a mere listener who plays no instrument ... :smiley:.

Ariosto

10-09-11, 15:43

Professional musicians never have a profound understanding about anything. That's why we have conductors. We are merely navvies moving one pice of **** to another place, and then putting it back again under superior instructions from our betters. We know our place and never question anything the great public out there says or thinks. We are but humble servants.

vinteuil

10-09-11, 16:14

By the way, perhaps we should have a separate discussion as to whether professional musicians necessarily have a more profound understanding, a deeper appreciation, of the music than a mere listener who plays no instrument ... :smiley:.

... in another field - litrachur - I think it is the case that authors are often the worst judges of their work - it often takes others, critics, and often people many generations later, to find out all sorts of things in a text that the poor originator wotted not of....

ardcarp

11-09-11, 12:11

I had no idea my original (and innocent) post would draw such heavy irony:

Professional musicians never have a profound understanding about anything. That's why we have conductors. We are merely navvies moving one pice of **** to another place, and then putting it back again under superior instructions from our betters. We know our place and never question anything the great public out there says or thinks. We are but humble servants

I suppose NK's desire to shock (his appearance, his mode of speech, his cross-over cred and his views in the Guardian article) is, for some difficult to reconcile with his genius.

Neither did I intend to start another HIPP/non-HIPP slanging match. BOTH ways of playing Baroque music are just great for me, and let's just accept that one man's meat, etc, etc.

May I just make a comment in support of conductors? Yes, some are no doubt over-paid egotists. But shall we just examine the Last Night of the Proms? Edward Gardiner [hope I've spelled him correctly] held together vast forces (including audience) in a piece by PMD, Bartok's MM, a concerto and much else besides, probably with very limited rehearsal time. He did a great job, and for me ticked all the boxes including that of making his intentions very clear. If anyone thinks that the evening could have passed off successfully without a conductor is living in cloud-cuckoo land!

Just a wicked thought. How would the Last Night have passed off with NK in charge of proceedings?
Bare peng I reckon, man.

MrGongGong

11-09-11, 12:17

I don't think he has a "desire to shock" at all
some of the Bufton Tufton brigade somehow don't like the idea of someone who appears a little different
I'm not a great fan of the whole violin virtuoso thing but several musicians I know who have worked with him (in Classical orchestras) hold him in really high esteem.

Caliban

11-09-11, 12:42

some of the Bufton Tufton brigade somehow don't like the idea of someone who appears a little different

Personally I don't like the idea (still less, the reality) of someone who looks, speaks and behaves like a complete tosser.

johnb

11-09-11, 12:54

Some years ago there was a Radio 3 programme on NK, looking at his going into his development as a musician. He came out as a much more sympathetic figure than I was expecting. He was very unhappy indeed at the Juilliard, perhaps partly because he was very young (in his mid teens) when he went. It looks as though he retreated into the jazz scene as an escape.

Like many others, I find his 'grunge' persona very off-putting but I respect Ariosto's judgement and it's about time I tried to lay my prejudices aside.

Anna

11-09-11, 13:03

Caliban

11-09-11, 13:05

Caliban, that's a rather harsh statement about the Bufton Tufton brigade! :laugh:

Boom boom !! :bubbly: :winkeye:

french frank

11-09-11, 13:14

but several musicians I know who have worked with him (in Classical orchestras) hold him in really high esteem.You mean, as a musician? I don't think there's a great deal of controversy about that, is there? But do the musicians you know also follow his Oxfam example and shoot off their mouths about every musical topic on which they happen to hold a strong opinion?

There are two schools of thought on HIPP, of which his is only one. I don't think he should be admired because of his view: he can afford to upset people.

MrGongGong

11-09-11, 13:15

Personally I don't like the idea (still less, the reality) of someone who looks, speaks and behaves like a complete tosser.

i rest my case your honour

http://img.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2008/03_01/promsDM0403_468x320.jpg

aka Calum Da Jazbo

11-09-11, 13:24

I think there is a problem here, because NK played all the Bach standing rock solid, eyes closed most of the time, and almost faultlessly from memory, and delivered a very very sincere version which is probably unique to him.

It was only later that he did the showman act, and even then I found it entertaining.

well said ariosto!

:ok::ok::ok::ok::ok: