Saturday Classics

[french frank]

Starting today, 3pm-5pm

"A personal view of classical music from a range of presenters launches with Gareth Malone, star of BBC 2's BAFTA Award Winning 'The Choir'. In the first of four programmes, Gareth explores the many aspects of a subject close to his heart - 'musical youth'. Featuring two hours of great music including Mozart, Schubert, Verdi, Chopin and Elgar."

No playlist yet. Gareth Malone will be presenting the first four programmes in this new series. Other (musical) celebrities to follow.

The main issue for many of us will be, not whether it is 'high-quality' and 'distinctive' but what knowledge level it assumes. It may be yet another two hours aimed at the 'potential' new audience (I wonder where else it's being trailed?); it may be a good 'work-out' with some interesting music and comment.

[Caliban]

Starting today, 3pm-5pm

"A personal view of classical music from a range of presenters launches with Gareth Malone, star of BBC 2's BAFTA Award Winning 'The Choir'. In the first of four programmes, Gareth explores the many aspects of a subject close to his heart - 'musical youth'. Featuring two hours of great music including Mozart, Schubert, Verdi, Chopin and Elgar."

No playlist yet. Gareth Malone will be presenting the first four programmes in this new series. Other (musical) celebrities to follow.

The main issue for many of us will be, not whether it is 'high-quality' and 'distinctive' but what knowledge level it assumes. It may be yet another two hours aimed at the 'potential' new audience (I wonder where else it's being trailed?); it may be a good 'work-out' with some interesting music and comment.

It seems at first sight like yet another unsatisfying portion of "Private Passions - lite" spread thin with a patronising garnish

http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-basic/bash.gif (http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys.php)

[mercia]

my Radio Times says we'll get Chopin's Raindrop Prelude, Mendelssohn's 1st Piano Concerto and Elgar's Dream Children today

[french frank]

It seems at first sight like yet another unsatisfying portion of "Private Passions - lite" spread thin with a patronising garnish I do have a lot of time for Gareth Malone and think he's done some good work on educating the musically uneducated on television.

The main point is whether he's been drafted in to do the same on Radio 3 (four weeks on Radio 3 so much cheaper than four weeks on BBC Two). It'll be about tone and depth (or lack of). I haven't prejudged on this one.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

I haven't prejudged on this one.I'm afraid I have, but I very much hope I'm wrong.

[Caliban]

I do have a lot of time for Gareth Malone and think he's done some good work on educating the musically uneducated on television.

The main point is whether he's been drafted in to do the same on Radio 3 (four weeks on Radio 3 so much cheaper than four weeks on BBC Two). It'll be about tone and depth (or lack of). I haven't prejudged on this one.

I heard about 10 minutes and was pleasantly surprised, he seemed to be doing rather well, unobtrusively delivering a themed programme. I wonder if he is being groomed for full time 'presenting' at a later stage...

[Chris Newman]

I do have a lot of time for Gareth Malone and think he's done some good work on educating the musically uneducated on television.

The main point is whether he's been drafted in to do the same on Radio 3 (four weeks on Radio 3 so much cheaper than four weeks on BBC Two). It'll be about tone and depth (or lack of). I haven't prejudged on this one.

I thought his work with schools especially at Glyndebourne was excellent and I love watching his programme on sea shanties when it gets revived (I have a fondness for CH's clog dancing series too). I would be worried about Gareth becoming a "full-time" presenter as it would be a waste of his obvious musical talents. Imagine how much more musical in outlook Britain might be today if in the 1960s the BBC had seen fit to let Russell Burgess free on the TV and Radio waves in the way that Gareth appears these days. Instead it was Eric Robinson on BBCTV whilst Andre Previn on ITV was still a bit formal.

[mercia]

crikey, did we just go straight from Delius into Stravinsky without a pause?
oh, it was a quiz, silly me

[Anna]

crikey, did we just go straight from Delius into Stravinsky without a pause?
oh, it was a quiz, silly me
Indeed we did mercia, it was part of the Guess what it is Competition (but don't phone in, it's just for fun)

Now, I like Gareth Malone a lot, I've seen all his tv programmes about his work with young people and have been impressed but I'm afraid this programme doesn't do anything for me. Ok, it's themed on youth but who is it aimed at, because although it's fairly pleasant to listen to on a rainy afternoon all the music is so familiar, I haven't learnt anything about how/why they composed so young, what the reactions were and now he said that here's a game he plays when he's teaching youth groups (7 year olds he added later) - listen and see if you can tell when this piece is going to end. If he had added the word children onto the end of his sentence I wouldn't have been surprised.

Having said that, I'd rather listen to this programme than to Breakfast.

[french frank]

Proof of the pudding ...

My concern is that people are chosen firstly for being good 'communicators' and, especially for young people, that matters. But I don't see a lot in Gareth's CV - no more than for Aled Jones - that he has a wide knowledge of the repertoire. I would suggest that for Radio 3 programming the emphasis should be on being able to tell a somewhat more knowledgeable audience things that they don't already know. Fun and games aren't necessary.

[Andrew Slater]

It's clearly another CFM-like programme, designed to bring in new listeners rather than to persuade existing listeners to listen longer. Those listener hours are going to suffer!

[Frances_iom]

It's clearly another CFM-like programme, designed to bring in new listeners rather than to persuade existing listeners to listen longer. Those listener hours are going to suffer!
the theming seemed somewhat weak, however my immediate reaction was that it was a somewhat extended children's hour program aimed at say 7 to 9 year olds - his voice and delivery were fine but can't see it being a regular listen for me.

[Norfolk Born]

the theming seemed somewhat weak, however my immediate reaction was that it was a somewhat extended children's hour program aimed at say 7 to 9 year olds - his voice and delivery were fine but can't see it being a regular listen for me.
Same here.

[Chris Newman]

It rather reminds me of a mixture of the late lamented David Munrow's children's programme laced with the one that only ran for a very short time on R3 with Ant and Dec, who bless 'em, tried their best but were treading water and script reading which is not their forte. Overall, not patronising but rather dated.

[french frank]

Well, it does come over to me as being 'entry level' stuff, in terms of the music and comment. I think R3 would claim this is being 'distinctive' from CFM, and 'high-quality' in having grrrreat music. And up to a point, I suppose it is. But it's all pretty soporific.

I just don't think there's a proper critical basis to two hours of 'My Favourites Pieces' whoever the presenter is, and with Simon Russell Beale, John Wilson and Alison Balsom up ahead I don't look forward to the next few weeks with much enthusiasm.

[Anna]

I stuck with it for the full 2 hours and I'm glad to see that it was not just me thinking it rather a superior childrens' programme. I felt it was aimed at 12-14 year olds but if you're that age you are hanging out with your mates and not indoors listening to R3. The plus point was that he did not ask for tweets, emails or texts.

[decantor]

In advance, I was in two minds about this programme. On the one hand, it was a potential improvement on the previous musical fare at 3.00pm on a Saturday; on the other, I have no great faith in G.Malone. I do admire that he once persuaded some boys to sing despite themselves, but on the whole he comes across more as a diffident, bumbling student than a competent, enthusiastic advocate for music. I found his TV programme with the Beeb Singers an embarrassment (and they looked as though they shared my view).

I stuck it out for two hours, but I doubt I'll do so again. I thought the presentation was matter-of-fact and uninformative (even for entry level). The 'innocent ear' quiz was absurd: any serious music-lover would recognise the piece as well as the composer, but a neophyte would not stand a chance. And we'd had a much more meaningful performance of the Young Person's Guide less than a week earlier at the Proms. I'm afraid in my book this was just another playlist prog - and a rather flat one at that. Whatever one may think of Anthony Hopkins, he did at least help inform my youth; and was David Munrow really absolutely unique? David Owen Norris may be a bit of a mad-cap prof, but he would at least enliven this sort of set-up with his infectious enthusiasm and delight in detail.

Oh dear. I think I grump to excess.

[mercia]

Simon Russell Beale, John Wilson and Alison Balsom

SRB ought to be quite adult and informative (at least on choral matters?), likewise Ms B (on trumpet matters), don't think I know JW

is all R3 output required to be "entry level"? or just certain bits of it

[zola]

SRB ought to be quite adult and informative (at least on choral matters?), likewise Ms B (on trumpet matters), don't think I know JW


JW is the conductor who arrives each year now at the Proms with his Hollywood / Broadway schtick. ( though his "music that changed me" article in BBC Music lists Elgar, Vaughan Williams, Mozart, Ireland and Frank Sinatra ) Ms Balsom claims to currently be struggling to work out what to leave out of her programmes but knows that she must include Messiah. Hopes for anything challenging in this slot are rapidly diminishing.

[french frank]

Hopes for anything challenging in this slot are rapidly diminishing.I haven't found a commissioning brief for the programme, so it's probably produced in-house. Contributors will be told where to pitch it.

There won't be much point in 'specialists' being presenters if they aren't supposed to talk about their specialism. They are all just music lovers talking about their favourite pieces - an extended Desert Island Discs or Private Passions - and it will be hit or miss whether they have mainstream or eclectic tastes in classical music.

Perhaps I'm wrong, but I never think professional musicians necessarily have the widest knowledge of the repertoire, though the older they get, no doubt, the wider the knowledge :smiley:. But even a wide knowledge doesn't guarantee an interesting taste. The unimaginatively named Listeners' Choice was interesting because it encouraged listeners to suggest more out-of-the-way pieces, and played them. Even that tailed off when the programme was apparently being downgraded before being transformed into '3 for All' ('don't be afraid to be obvious').

[Brassbandmaestro]

The one decent thing Radio 3 had on this week(unless I missed anyothers?). was Puccini's Il Trittico! I forgot all about it!!:steam:

[Suffolkcoastal]

Perhaps I'm wrong, but I never think professional musicians necessarily have the widest knowledge of the repertoire, though the older they get, no doubt, the wider the knowledge :smiley:

Your quite right in your observations ff. I remember the Christmas Quizzes on R3 and the classical music knowledge of the professional musicians was poor to say the least, my knowledge in my late teens was considerably better.

[Anna]

I thought I'd give Gareth another whirl this weekend. Nowhere on the R3 schedule can I find that this is a programme for children but although the whole of Peter and The Wolf may be entertaining for 10 year olds I'm afraid it isn't what I want to hear, nor do I wish to be spoken down to, or asked silly questions, so although I lasted for an hour and a half eventually I had to press the Off button.

[MickyD]

I wonder if anyone else remembers an excellent Saturday afternoon series on Radio 3 back in the early 80s called "Man of Action"? There was no presenter, but two (or maybe three) hours given to a not necessarily well known, but successful person in his or her field - a head of industry or charity etc. They talked us through their lives and their achievements, punctuating that with sizeable works of music that had meant much to them in their lives. The fact that there was no presenter made it so much better - I fear we will never have that luxury again.

[Norfolk Born]

I thought it was more mid-70s(?) I remember two programmes each introduced by an Edward - Greenfield and Heath.

[Norfolk Born]

I've found a couple of dates: Isaiah Berlin in 1974 (repeated in 1976) and Jeremy Brett (1976).

[pilamenon]

I thought I'd give Gareth another whirl this weekend. Nowhere on the R3 schedule can I find that this is a programme for children but although the whole of Peter and The Wolf may be entertaining for 10 year olds I'm afraid it isn't what I want to hear, nor do I wish to be spoken down to, or asked silly questions, so although I lasted for an hour and a half eventually I had to press the Off button.

Driving home, I tried, too, and gave up after about 45 minutes of Peter & the Wolf, and well known bits of Mozart and Handel. It was really poor stuff. To have lost both World Routes and Jazz Library on a Saturday afternoon to this inconsequential easy listening strand is an absolute disgrace. :grr:

[french frank]

Oh, dear. It does sound as if his name is being used to signal, 'Nothing to be afraid of here'. And cheaper on Radio 3 than on television where more people would benefit.

[Roslynmuse]

I thought it was more mid-70s(?) I remember two programmes each introduced by an Edward - Greenfield and Heath.

I was only thinking of this programme a few days ago. I was only 11 in 1976 but I listened to it most weeks. I don't think I was a particularly odd child either! I just would have resented being patronised even then.

[Alyn_Shipton]

Driving home, I tried, too, and gave up after about 45 minutes of Peter & the Wolf, and well known bits of Mozart and Handel. It was really poor stuff. To have lost both World Routes and Jazz Library on a Saturday afternoon to this inconsequential easy listening strand is an absolute disgrace. :grr:

Do remember to write to Radio 3 to make this point directly...or you can write to Jazz Library c/o the programme's web page and we'll pass it on.

[Caliban]

Driving home, I tried, too, and gave up after about 45 minutes of Peter & the Wolf, and well known bits of Mozart and Handel. It was really poor stuff. To have lost both World Routes and Jazz Library on a Saturday afternoon to this inconsequential easy listening strand is an absolute disgrace. :grr:

I second that, pilamenon

:grr:

[MickyD]

I was only thinking of this programme a few days ago. I was only 11 in 1976 but I listened to it most weeks. I don't think I was a particularly odd child either! I just would have resented being patronised even then.

I definitely listened to it in the 1980s and I am pretty certain that there was no presenter, just the person in question talking about their lives and the music which was important to them.

[Andrew Slater]

According to The Envy of the World by Humphrey Carpenter, Man of Action was introduced in 1975 as a cost-cutting measure. According to my RTs for 1977 and 1978 it ran from 2:15 to 3:35.

According to The Envy of the World, the programme which I remember replaced it, Play it Again, where a guest re-played music selections from the previous week's broadcasts, began on 29th September 1979. (I have a Radio Times for 18-24/10/80 which shows PiA running from 2pm to 5pm.)

[french frank]

According to The Envy of the World by Humphrey Carpenter, Man of Action was introduced in 1975 as a cost-cutting measure. Was this because it was also on Radio 4?

(Btw, today is the 65th anniversary of the start of the Third Programme)

[Andrew Slater]

The book says that it Man (Woman) of Action was shared with Radio 4; I don't remember that happening, so perhaps it was short-lived. It certainly wasn't happening by 1977: the programme immediately after it, Music of the Masters, was shared. This continued into 1978. I seem to remember the latter at one time being mid-week: perhaps that was when MoA was shared.

A programme earlier in the day, in 1977, introduced by John Amis, from 12.2 to 12.55, was also shared. By 1978 this had been dropped.

(I would have thought that both Man (Woman) of Action and Play it Again were cost-cutting measures.)

I've just found a programme from 11.45 to 13.00 on a Saturday in 1980 called I know What I Like, where '...speakers from many walks of life, musical and non-musical, are invited to introduce some of their favourite music'. I wonder if this is the programme which MickyD remembers?

[Andrew Slater]

(Btw, today is the 65th anniversary of the start of the Third Programme)

Where's the bunting?!

[Roslynmuse]

The 12.2 John Amis programme shared between R3 and R4 was also, at different times, introduced by Robin Ray, James Galway and Jack Brymer.

The Play It Again programme would start on R3 alone and R4 would join it an hour or an hour and a half later. There was also a regular Tuesday evening concert broadcast on both stations; this changed to a Thursday evening sometime in the late 70s. R4 also broadcast a regular Sunday concert, 8 - 9pm, Music to Remember, and Richard Baker had his These You Have Loved (later Baker's Dozen) on Sat evening, repeated 9am one weekday morning (?Thursday). All in all, R4 was putting out a fair bit of serious music at this point in time, and R2 wasn't far behind with Melodies for You, Your 100 Best Tunes, a regular summer light music festival every June, as well as more middle-of-the-road programmes like Semprini Serenade and Friday Night is Music Night (frighteningly, the only survivor).

R3's new role seems to be to cover all these things.

[MickyD]

The book says that it Man (Woman) of Action was shared with Radio 4; I don't remember that happening, so perhaps it was short-lived. It certainly wasn't happening by 1977: the programme immediately after it, Music of the Masters, was shared. This continued into 1978. I seem to remember the latter at one time being mid-week: perhaps that was when MoA was shared.

A programme earlier in the day, in 1977, introduced by John Amis, from 12.2 to 12.55, was also shared. By 1978 this had been dropped.

(I would have thought that both Man (Woman) of Action and Play it Again were cost-cutting measures.)

I've just found a programme from 11.45 to 13.00 on a Saturday in 1980 called I know What I Like, where '...speakers from many walks of life, musical and non-musical, are invited to introduce some of their favourite music'. I wonder if this is the programme which MickyD remembers?


Andrew, I think I have got my dates wrong; the programme was certainly called Man of Action, and as is so often the case with memory, I didn't go back far enough! Thanks for the research - I certainly don't remember "I Know What I Like", but there, you have the proof with Radio Times!

[french frank]

R4 was putting out a fair bit of serious music at this point in time, and R2 wasn't far behind with Melodies for You, Your 100 Best Tunes, a regular summer light music festival every June, as well as more middle-of-the-road programmes like Semprini Serenade and Friday Night is Music Night (frighteningly, the only survivor).It looks as if the funds are being stuffed into R4 to make it the BBC's great 'public service' station while R3 is reduced to being a niche station which will struggle to exist.
R3's new role seems to be to cover all these things.Yes, all the things that used to be considered mass audience programming.

[teamsaint]

The problem with things like R3 is that its much harder to make people take notice of the government and establishment media agendas if they are listening to , and thinking about some Beethoven, or Stravinsky, than if they are listening the the same endlessly regurgitated news agendas ( the importance of the city/politicians?europe/Obama/terrorists/whatever.)

So I would expect the trend that FF has identified to continue.

[Anna]

Did you know that Gareth, at the age of 11, filed into Assembly to Habanera from Carmen? And, at the age of 7 it was the Overture! Gosh!! He has a new book out "Music for the People" The blurb says Have you ever been carried away by a piece of classical music? The sad song of a single violin might make us cry, but the idea of finding out more about classical music can often be intimidating.

Just about sums up this programme I'm afraid, hold Gareth's hand and do not be afraid, there's nothing nasty here, just easy listening for beginners and children. Edit: Now it's Hansel and Gretel, can you hear the fairies!!

[french frank]

Well, we have Simon Russell Beale, John Wilson and Alison Balsom up ahead. What will they all bring to the programme which they have 'authored' (BBC speak)? SRB is celeb with some musical credentials ( a chorister 40 years ago and discovered to have a 'fine tenor voice' when he played Ariel at the RSC). John Wilson is the Hooray for Hollywood and MGM musicals man. Alison Balsom is the Nicola Benedetti of the trumpet (shorthand: not intended as an insult to either of them as fine young musicians; but both beloved of the media).

I'll be interested to see how all three sustain two hours of musical choices.

[zola]

Simon Russell Beale's tenure is a tie in with the Symphony tv programmes he is presenting and the splurge of related symphonic programming on R3. So I guess we will get er....symphonies. But given the format of this programme, presumably only single movements so as not to tax the attention span and risk people switching off when they haven't heard a presenter or a trail for over 20 minutes.

[ardcarp]

Couldn't Radio 2 find new slots (eg ones that used to be filled by Your 100 Best Tunes or The Organist Entertains) for this sort of stuff?

[Anna]

I've had Saturday Classics with Alison Balsom on. She's better than Gareth Malone was. It's still a few bits of this and a few bits of that but she's not patronising. Not something to deliberately switch on I'm afraid.

[Richard Tarleton]

I've had Saturday Classics with Alison Balsom on. She's better than Gareth Malone was. It's still a few bits of this and a few bits of that but she's not patronising. Not something to deliberately switch on I'm afraid.

Not having heard her speak before I was surprised by her voice - quite Sloaney. The cadenza from Bach B'berg 5 a bit like an electric guitarist ripping it up at a rock concert, apparently. Really?

[Dame Fanny Moody]

God, isn't this slow? I'm sure people will still be listening to it in 100 years time - it takes that to get to the end!

[Chris Newman]

Hello, Dame Fanny.

How nice to see you around again!! Where have you been hiding? Somewhere nice and sunny I hope. Welcome back.

bws Chris (I was formerlymodestchristoff on the old boards).

[Dame Fanny Moody]

Dear Chris,

Thank you so much - delighted to be back in the land of the undead.

[Dame Fanny Moody]

P.S. But it was slow, wasn't it, or was it just my blood pressure?