BaL 4.02.12 - Rachmaninov's Symphony no. 2 in E minor [Archive]

Eine Alpensinfonie

27-01-12, 11:43

9.30 Building a Library: William Mival with a personal recommendation from recordings of Rachmaninov's Symphony No 2 in E minor

Available versions:

Ireland National Symphony Orchestra, Alexander Anissimov
Concertgebouw Orchestra, Vladimir Ashkenazy
Sydney Symphony Orchestra, Vladimir Ashkenazy
The Oregon Symphony, James DePreist
The Philadelphia Orchestra, Charles Dutoit
Budapest Festival Orchestra, Iván Fischer
Kirov Orchestra, Valery Gergiev
London Symphony Orchestra, Valery Gergiev
Royal Scottish National Orchestra, Sir Alexander Gibson
WDR Sinfonieorchester, Hans Hadulla
Real Orquesta Sinfonica de Sevilla, Pedro Halffter
Royal Philharmonic Orchestra, Vernon Handley
Royal Scottish National Orchestra, Owain Arwel Hughes
Philharmonia Orchestra, Mariss Jansons
St. Petersburg Philharmonic Orchestra, Mariss Jansons
Cincinnati Symphony Orchestra, Paavo Järvi
Mansurian Philharmonic Orchestra, Paul Kantschieder
Novosibirsk Academic Symphony Orchestra, Arnold Kats
L’Orchestre de la Suisse Romande, Paul Kletzki
Moscow State Symphony Orchestra, Pavel Kogan
Royal Concertgebouw Orchestra, Kirill Kondrashin
Cincinnati Symphony Orchestra, Jesús López-Cobos
Berliner Philharmoniker, Lorin Maazel
The Standard Symphony Orchestra (San Francisco), Pierre Monteux
BBC Philharmonic, Gianandrea Noseda
Philadelphia Orchestra, Eugene Ormandy
BBC National Orchestra of Wales, Tadaaki Otaka
Orchestra dell’Accademia Nazionale di Santa Cecilia, Antonio Pappano
Russian National Orchestra, Mikhail Pletnev
Russian State Symphony Orchestra, Valeri Polyansky
London Symphony Orchestra, André Previn
Royal Philharmonic Orchestra, Andre Previn
London Symphony Orchestra, Gennadi Rozhdestvensky
Orchestre National de Bordeaux Aquitaine, Kwamé Ryan
Philharmonia Orchestra, Kurt Sanderling
Singapore Symphony Orchestra, Lan Shui
Detroit Symphony Orchestra, Leonard Slatkin
St. Louis Symphony Orchestra, Leonard Slatkin
Moscow Radio Symphony Orchestra, Pavel Soroki
Pittsburg Symphony Orchestra, William Steinberg
SR Symphony Orchestra, Evgeni Svetlanov
Rotterdam Philharmonic, Edo de Waart
London Philharmonic Orchestra, Walter Weller
Royal Philharmonic Orchestra, Dmitry Yablonsky
Baltimore Symphony Orchestra, David Zinman

Download only
London Philharmonic Orchestra, Sir Adrian Boult
Royal Philharmonic Orchestra, Andrew Litton

[Arranged as Piano Concerto, by Alexander Warenberg.
Wolfram Schmitt-Leonardy, Janácek Philharmonic Orchestra, Theodore Kuchar]

DVD
Mariinsky Orchestra and choir, Valery Gergiev
Philadelphia Orchestra, Eugene Ormandy
Berliner Philharmoniker, Sir Simon Rattle (DVD/Blu Ray)

Eine Alpensinfonie

27-01-12, 17:02

Sorry about the confusion earlier. I'm looking forward to this one.

cloughie

27-01-12, 17:10

9.30 Building a Library: William Mival with a personal recommendation from recordings of Rachmaninov's Symphony No 2 in E minor

Available versions:

Cleveland Orchestra, Andre Previn

Don't know this one - any clues?

amateur51

27-01-12, 17:34

9.30 Building a Library: William Mival with a personal recommendation from recordings of Rachmaninov's Symphony No 2 in E minor
I don't expect to be popular but there's another performance in the William Steinberg Icon box

http://www.amazon.co.uk/William-Steinberg-ICON/dp/B005AAVFG8/ref=sr_1_1?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1327684025&sr=1-1

PJPJ

27-01-12, 17:44

Cleveland Orchestra, Andre Previn

Don't know this one - any clues?

Previn recorded the Second for RCA with the LSO before the EMI recording. Is this the one you mean, EA?

Brassbandmaestro

27-01-12, 17:51

Ah, the EMi, that the one I have, plus Andrew Litton and Vladimir Ashkenazy. The Ashkenazy is the Decca recording he made. Has the Litton been deleated?

Mr Pee

27-01-12, 18:17

The recent recording from Ivan Fischer and the Budapest Festival Orchestra is certainly well worthy of the top recommendation. :ok:

Ferretfancy

27-01-12, 22:30

I also have a Mercury recording by the Detroit So and Paray, but it's heavily cut.

gurnemanz

27-01-12, 23:13

I came very late to appreciating this work. We heard a good performance in 2010 with Ashkenazy and the Philharmonia at the Anvil, Basingstoke - our first visit to that venue with its superb acoustics.
I now have two recordings: both LSO with André Previn and Gennadi Rozhdestvensky and I would need a lot of convincing to get another one.

Petrushka

28-01-12, 00:21

I have LSO/Previn, LSO/Rozhdestvensky, Russian Nat Orch/Pletnev, Concertgebouw/Ashkenazy, St Petersburg PO/Jansons and RPO/Temirkanov on my shelves as well as the BBCPO/Downes on a BBCMM CD. There was a time, especially in my 20's and 30's when I had a bit of an obsession with this work but haven't heard it for several years now.

Cherished live performances in the 1970's/1980's came from LSO/Previn, Concertgebouw/Kondrashin (the only time I saw him) and Philharmonia/Ashkenazy.

For me, the EMI LSO/Previn wins hands down. The sheer electricity and burning passion leaps off the page and out of the speakers like no other version.

Eine Alpensinfonie

28-01-12, 03:16

Don't know this one - any clues? The "Cleveland/Previn" version appears to be an error on the Presto website which I didn't check. It's actually the RPO version. Thanks for pointing this out.

Eine Alpensinfonie

28-01-12, 03:22

I don't expect to be popular but there's another performance in the William Steinberg Icon box

http://www.amazon.co.uk/William-Steinberg-ICON/dp/B005AAVFG8/ref=sr_1_1?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1327684025&sr=1-1

Many thanks. Duly added to the growing list. :smiley:

Mr Pee

28-01-12, 09:11

For me, the EMI LSO/Previn wins hands down. The sheer electricity and burning passion leaps off the page and out of the speakers like no other version.

I agree, that's a fantastic performance, and I'm not sure that Jack Brymer's rendition of the slow movement clarinet solo has ever been bettered. :ok: But Ivan Fischer/BFO runs it pretty close I think, and in a superb modern recording as well.

This new recording of the 3rd Symphony sounds well worth a listen as well :-

http://www.theartsdesk.com/classical-music/classical-cds-weekly-handel-rachmaninov-andy-findon

Pabmusic

28-01-12, 10:04

PJPJ

28-01-12, 10:26

There is of course this, from the mid-50s (so I guess it was one of the first recordings): http://www.soundstagedirect.com/sir-adrian-boult-rachmaninoff-symphony-no-2-200-gram-vinyl-lp.shtml

The interpretation is fine, of course, but the LPO wasn't at its best, which does show. It seems to me to be complete (ie: without cuts) but I haven't followed it through with a score.

One of my favourites! I don't think it's complete - the usual cuts with a playing time of around 49 minutes?

Pabmusic

28-01-12, 10:55

One of my favourites! I don't think it's complete - the usual cuts with a playing time of around 49 minutes?

That could well be so - it was usual before (?) Previn's LSO version.

amateur51

28-01-12, 10:59

I agree, that's a fantastic performance, and I'm not sure that Jack Brymer's rendition of the slow movement clarinet solo has ever been bettered. :ok: But Ivan Fischer/BFO runs it pretty close I think, and in a superb modern recording as well.
Around the time that the Previn recording came out I sat in the choir seats at RFH for a performance given by the LSO/Previn and can report that the top of Jack Brymer's bald head went a deep rose colour as he worked his magic in the slow movement :biggrin:

Brassbandmaestro

29-01-12, 08:49

What dp people think of the Andtrew Litton recording. I do not think that was on the list that EA provided? I quite enjioy it, like the other recordings he has made of Nos1 and 3.

cloughie

29-01-12, 09:22

There is of course this, from the mid-50s (so I guess it was one of the first recordings): http://www.soundstagedirect.com/sir-adrian-boult-rachmaninoff-symphony-no-2-200-gram-vinyl-lp.shtml

The interpretation is fine, of course, but the LPO wasn't at its best, which does show. It seems to me to be complete (ie: without cuts) but I haven't followed it through with a score.

I have this as a Belart CD, now available, it appears, at some silly inflated price on Amazon - My long-term favourite, which suffers cuts less than most
50s' recordings is LenPO Sanderling on DG, deleted but a few used copies available on Amazon at reasonable prices!

Eine Alpensinfonie

29-01-12, 11:52

What dp people think of the Andtrew Litton recording. I do not think that was on the list that EA provided? I quite enjioy it, like the other recordings he has made of Nos1 and 3.

I've just added this to the list as it's available in the UK as a download.

Pabmusic

29-01-12, 12:11

I've just added this to the list as it's available in the UK as a download.

As is the Boult: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Rachmaninoff-Symphony-No-2-Minor/dp/B002MVWP7G/ref=sr_1_17?ie=UTF8&qid=1327839030&sr=8-17

Eine Alpensinfonie

29-01-12, 17:27

Duly noted and amended. :smiley:

Barbirollians

29-01-12, 22:51

LSO/Previn for me too . Though the recent Pappano comes close .

Mr Pee

29-01-12, 22:54

LSO/Previn for me too . Though the recent Pappano comes close .

Oh yes- I agree about the Pappano. I haven't listened to it for a while, but did so today and it is absolutely superb. :ok:

Roehre

30-01-12, 00:06

LSO/Previn for me too . Though the recent Pappano comes close .

Fully agree with Barbirollians and Mr.Pee (and others re Previn/LSO).
Btw, the Previn was my first Rachmaninov LP ever (even before the 2nd concerto :yikes:).

Pabmusic

30-01-12, 00:28

LSO/Previn for me too . Though the recent Pappano comes close .

Agree entirely.

Nachtigall

30-01-12, 10:13

Haven't listened to the Second Symphony for a long time but, like others here, wouldn't want to be without either the LSO/Previn or Concertgebouw/Ashkenazy. I appear also to have the Philadelphia/Ormandy and RPO/Litton recordings as well as the BBCNOW/Tadaaki Otawa but couldn't say what these were like offhand.

The recording I'm most attached to for sentimental, nostalgic reasons is the DG of Kurt Sanderling and the Leningrad Philharmonic, issued in 1956 and reissued on DG Originals, a mono only recording but still very good, a dark-hued, lush and classy performance. I remember using it as the basis for a talk to a Sixth Form music class when I was a mere teenager.

amateur51

30-01-12, 10:16

The recording I'm most attached to for sentimental, nostalgic reasons is the DG of Kurt Sanderling and the Leningrad Philharmonic, issued in 1956 and reissued on DG Originals, a mono only recording but still very good, a dark-hued, lush and classy performance. I remember using it as the basis for a talk to a Sixth Form music class when I was a mere teenager.I've only heard this perfoermance once, played on Classic Collection I think, and I fully agree Nachtigall. :ok:

It's on my list :smiley:

Nachtigall

30-01-12, 12:49

Having described it as "dark-hued, lush and classy" I thought I'd better listen to Sanderling's Leningrad recording again! It's all of these, but I'd forgotten just how vigorous, dynamic, almost aggressive it is at times. Just listen to the second movement, the Scherzo! God, the Leningrad orchestra were on top form then, as they were in Mravinsky's Tchaikovsky recordings. Unreservedly recommended!

cloughie

30-01-12, 12:58

I've only heard this perfoermance once, played on Classic Collection I think, and I fully agree Nachtigall. :ok:

It's on my list :smiley:

Am51, May I draw your attention to my post #19 re its availability.

amateur51

30-01-12, 19:57

Am51, May I draw your attention to my post #19 re its availability.Triffic cloughie:ok: Many thanks :ale::bubbly:

Barbirollians

31-01-12, 00:22

Pabmusic

31-01-12, 01:11

I noticed this on Amazon: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Rachmaninov-Symphony-Theme-Cello-Piano/dp/B004NWD3GO/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1327971966&sr=8-5

I imagine the Amazon operative who wrote the heading listens to CFM (or maybe to Breakfast) too often. Stravinsky: Symphony In Three Parts, anyone?

reinerfan

31-01-12, 07:42

Like others I enjoy the Previn EMI version and quite like the Pappano, although the latter is rather spoiled for me by the typical EMI "up front", close miked, live recording which lacks atmosphere. This procedure also ruins, for me, many of the Rattle/BPO recordings, although I suppose they are produced this way to cut out any audience noise. I am also very fond of the RCA Ormandy and the DGG Sanderling CDs and, for the "cut" versions, I prefer the Sony Ormandy and the 1968 Svetlanov.

cloughie

31-01-12, 11:04

Eine Alpensinfonie

04-02-12, 10:57

I missed this today. Presumably others can tell me of the outcome?

Keraulophone

04-02-12, 10:59

LSO / Previn

Petrushka

04-02-12, 11:06

LSO / Previn

I didn't listen to the programme but that comes as no surprise. Surely a contender for one of the truly great recordings of all time.

Eine Alpensinfonie

04-02-12, 11:53

Thanks for that. I'll catch up with podcast whe it's available.

amateur51

04-02-12, 11:59

Not an enormously illuminating BaL but quite satisfactory. I was delighted to make an acquaintance with the recording by Weller/LPO in the early 70s - I saw/heard Weller conducting it at the Royal Festival Hall in London around the mid-80s I think and it was a much better performance than I was expecting (it was very good); and hearing this morning's programme made me want to hear his recording - a part of what BaL is all about, I think :ok: :smiley:

Panjandrum

04-02-12, 12:35

I didn't listen to the programme but that comes as no surprise. Surely a contender for one of the truly great recordings of all time.

I'm not sure what echt Russians would make of the top choice. :erm:

PJPJ

04-02-12, 12:35

Those wanting Previn in the best possible sound may be interested in this new mastering for the Japanese market - SACD

Pricey.

http://www.jpc.de/jpcng/classic/detail/-/art/Sergej-Rachmaninoff-1873-1943-Symphonie-Nr-2/hnum/3006753

amateur51

04-02-12, 12:38

I'm not sure what echt Russians would make of the top choice. :erm:Was that consideration part of William Mival's brief?

Mahlerei

04-02-12, 12:42

PJPJ

Listening to Previn/LSO in the 3rd and as good as the performance is it's typical of so many EMI transfers from this period - a razored treble and a general brightness that makes for hard listening. By comparison their RCA Nielsen 1 transferred from LP :winkeye: is wonderfully warm and involving.

Barbirollians

04-02-12, 12:43

Was that consideration part of William Mival's brief?

A rather enigmatic remark panjandrum ? Could you elaborate ?

I was pleased to hear the Rozhdestvensky get a good review- I am fond of the Rachmaninov and Tchaikovsky records he made for Pickwick in the 1980s.

Panjandrum

04-02-12, 12:56

A rather enigmatic remark panjandrum ? Could you elaborate ?

I was pleased to hear the Rozhdestvensky get a good review- I am fond of the Rachmaninov and Tchaikovsky records he made for Pickwick in the 1980s.

I didn't think I was being gnomic but, well, the Previn is fine but it is all a bit too well behaved, IMHO.

Peter Katin

04-02-12, 13:05

I also have a Mercury recording by the Detroit So and Paray, but it's heavily cut.

For me, any recording that makes cuts is discounted. My introduction to the work was Sanderling's 1956 version but it didn't take much listening to realise that Sanderling's was mutilated. He said that he knew Rachmaninov, who made the cuts on his advice. Other conductors followed suit until the original version "caught on"; certain conductors declared that they had seen the marks in the manuscript, but my loudly expressed demand that they should be made available was ignored. Anyway, there are some splendid recordings in which one can hear just what Rachmaninov wrote, and that's what matters.

ferneyhoughgeliebte

04-02-12, 13:28

I'm not sure what echt Russians would make of the top choice. :erm:
Well, Previn recorded it immediately after he and the orchestra returned from a tour performing the work to ecstatic audiences in the former Soviet Union - the first time, I believe, they'd heard the complete score. Ashkenasy is/was a fan; whether he qualifies as "echt" or not?

Suffolkcoastal

04-02-12, 17:17

For me, any recording that makes cuts is discounted. My introduction to the work was Sanderling's 1956 version but it didn't take much listening to realise that Sanderling's was mutilated. He said that he knew Rachmaninov, who made the cuts on his advice. Other conductors followed suit until the original version "caught on"; certain conductors declared that they had seen the marks in the manuscript, but my loudly expressed demand that they should be made available was ignored. Anyway, there are some splendid recordings in which one can hear just what Rachmaninov wrote, and that's what matters.

I entirely agree, here is one score that should always be performed in its entirety. I've heard the cut version on a few occasions and one notices that the overall balance feels wrong. This is a big symphony that breathes in long paragraphs and the cuts have the effect of interrupting the 'breathing' and taking unwanted breaths. I only have one version, the Previn, and so perfectly satisfying is the performance that I've never felt the need to invest in another.

Roehre

04-02-12, 19:01

I entirely agree, here is one score that should always be performed in its entirety. I've heard the cut version on a few occasions and one notices that the overall balance feels wrong. This is a big symphony that breathes in long paragraphs and the cuts have the effect of interrupting the 'breathing' and taking unwanted breaths. I only have one version, the Previn, and so perfectly satisfying is the performance that I've never felt the need to invest in another.

The sleeve of the Previn/LSO LP in the German EMI pressing shows a sticker, proudly announcing (in German) this was an uncut version and as such a world premiere recording. Never seen this with the English HMV sleeves though.

Chris Newman

04-02-12, 19:23

I first heard this marvellous symphony in Sir Adrian's famous recording, sadly somewhat abbreviated, but nevertheless it made an immensely powerful impression. Then I heard Andre Previn conduct it. Wow! I now have superb recordings from Boult, Previn, Ted Downes, Pappano and Ashkenazy. I think the best uncut live version I have ever heard was a few years back with Semyon Bychkov and the BBCSO at the Proms. Any thoughts on his recording with the WDR Sinfonieorchester? I am very tempted.

Brassbandmaestro

05-02-12, 07:52

What was the chosen version?

cloughie

05-02-12, 09:27

What was the chosen version?

LSO Previn EMI

cloughie

05-02-12, 09:38

For me, any recording that makes cuts is discounted. My introduction to the work was Sanderling's 1956 version but it didn't take much listening to realise that Sanderling's was mutilated. He said that he knew Rachmaninov, who made the cuts on his advice. Other conductors followed suit until the original version "caught on"; certain conductors declared that they had seen the marks in the manuscript, but my loudly expressed demand that they should be made available was ignored. Anyway, there are some splendid recordings in which one can hear just what Rachmaninov wrote, and that's what matters.

My preference is for uncut versions, but some are more cut/uncut than others - is it my memory or are there additional repeats in Rozhdestvensky's - Movt 1 is certainly longer than most, and Sanderling's cuts are less severe than some earlier versions, and I certainly would not like to be without that 1956 version.

Mr Pee

05-02-12, 09:44

LSO Previn EMI

Somewhat predictably.....

amateur51

05-02-12, 09:56

Somewhat predictably.....William Mival gave his reasons very clearly and acknowledged that it was a very old recording but it still came out tops for him - BRAVO! :ale::ok:

Brassbandmaestro

05-02-12, 11:13

:ale:Thats great news!! :ok:

cloughie

05-02-12, 11:18

William Mival gave his reasons very clearly and acknowledged that it was a very old recording but it still came out tops for him - BRAVO! :ale::ok:

Shows how time flies - even now to me a very old recording had its origins in 78s, whereas a recording from '78 appears to some as being very old!

Ferretfancy

05-02-12, 11:24

William Mival gave his reasons very clearly and acknowledged that it was a very old recording but it still came out tops for him - BRAVO! :ale::ok:

How important is the fact that a recording is old? In my book Previn's Rachmaninov is not old, especially as it still sounds fine. Naturally if there has been an enormous change in performing style newer versions might be preferred, in Bach for example, but even here there is a case for hearing how it was once done. I would not want to be without some significant performances dating back to the late 1920s and early 1030s, Beecham's performances with the then new LPO in particular, or Bruno Walter's Wagner.
One reason why I dislike the R3 morning schedules so much is that vintage performances are largely ignored, and thus historical contrast is lost.

Caliban

05-02-12, 14:41

Surely a contender for one of the truly great recordings of all time.

The Previn has a magic all its own, I agree Petrushka. As such yes it was a predictable result in a way (though during the programme, I wondered of Mr Mival was going to end up going off piste...

The idea that it was a 'safe' choice, or one that 'echt Russians' would be unhappy with, I think is beside the point. As fhg said, a lot of 'echt Russians' heard the LSO/Previn performances and seem to have found them 'echt Rachmaninov' enough to go wild.

Not an enormously illuminating BaL but quite satisfactory. I was delighted to make an acquaintance with the recording by Weller/LPO in the early 70s - I saw/heard Weller conducting it at the Royal Festival Hall in London around the mid-80s I think and it was a much better performance than I was expecting (it was very good); and hearing this morning's programme made me want to hear his recording - a part of what BaL is all about, I think :ok: :smiley:

I'd agree with that totally ammy. I want to hear the Weller too, and also the Sanderling mentioned above... But I'm a little confused - are both those performances of cut versions (or the cut version)?

Much looking forward to going to the RFH next week to hear the LPO under Neeme Järvi play the 2nd (as well as the 2nd Piano Concerto): will be great to get a live dose of this wonderful piece :magic:

cloughie

05-02-12, 15:15

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I'd agree with that totally ammy. I want to hear the Weller too, and also the Sanderling mentioned above... But I'm a little confused - are both those performances of cut versions (or the cut version)?

Weller is complete and part of a double Australian Eloquence of all 3 syms, I had the LP years back - v good. The Sanderling has minor cuts in finale but despite that a long-term favourite by which I got to know the work. I think P Katin over-condemning.

ostuni

05-02-12, 15:26

I haven't yet had a chance to listen to this week's BaL: I hope to catch up before it expires... Did WM mention the Jansons/St Petersburg? I do like the 1st Symph in that set: haven't listened as much to his 2nd.

Yes, the Weller is complete (and the Sanderling isn't). I've got the former, and like it a lot. The American (but based in the UK) conductor Ken Woods writes a nice blog about conducting: he makes a point of not passing judgments on living conductors, but made an exception for Weller in this post (http://kennethwoods.net/blog1/2011/05/10/the-tree-that-falls-in-the-forest/).

Peter Katin

06-02-12, 17:29

I didn't think I was being gnomic but, well, the Previn is fine but it is all a bit too well behaved, IMHO.

Exactly what I thought. I somehow don't find the passion that I hoped for; the strings in particular are almost business-like. I can't remember the earlier recording, which was full of cuts which Previn told me were authentic. I think for now I will throw in my lot with Pappano's live version.

Peter Katin

06-02-12, 17:40

Weller is complete and part of a double Australian Eloquence of all 3 syms, I had the LP years back - v good. The Sanderling has minor cuts in finale but despite that a long-term favourite by which I got to know the work. I think P Katin over-condemning.

But I'm not condemning! I prefer to hear the whole work. The 3rd concerto went through this phase but it didn't do the structure any good.

Caliban

06-02-12, 17:47

A friend who is a player of the French horn and has some experience of recording orchestral ensembles commented to me this weekend that his big reservation with the Previn / LSO recording is the string-saturated recording. Occasionally in tutti passages you can hear from the sound they make that the horns are absolutely belting it out, yet, as recorded one can only just hear them against the rest of the orchestra.

I've known the recording since the mid 70s and never spotted this, although do appreciate hearing other performances as one can hear other things from the more rearward portions of the orchestra - especially since playing trombone in the piece (in an orch with said friend in fact).

Any comments, particularly from our horn playing fraternity here? Waldhorn (I think the friend in question is a mutual friend! :winkeye:)? :smiley:

PJPJ

06-02-12, 18:38

And any comments, please, about the later Sanderling recording with the Philharmonia? I was much impressed by the opening excerpt played.

Petrushka

06-02-12, 22:11

Sir Monty Golfear

29-04-12, 23:58

But I'm not condemning! I prefer to hear the whole work. The 3rd concerto went through this phase but it didn't do the structure any good.

I agree about not cutting the works . Did you ever record Rach 3 ? ....I grew up with your recordings of the 1st and 2nd concertos on Decca , I still love them.!

Barbirollians

14-05-12, 14:53

Enjoying the Kletzki at the moment - for want of a better description I like the balance that the slightly lemony Suisse Romande strings give .

ferneyhoughgeliebte

14-05-12, 15:44

Enjoying the Kletzki at the moment - for want of a better description I like the balance that the slightly lemony Suisse Romande strings give .
I don't think you do "want for a better description", Barbi - if you mean a slightly "tart" tang to the sound which perfectly balances the composer's more "sugary" harmonies, then you've expressed it perfectly. :ok: :ale:

Sir Monty Golfear

14-05-12, 17:09

I don't think you do "want for a better description", Barbi - if you mean a slightly "tart" tang to the sound which perfectly balances the composer's more "sugary" harmonies, then you've expressed it perfectly. :ok: :ale:

Would "Sawtooth" be a more apt description I wonder ?

Barbirollians

16-05-12, 00:00

Good heavens no !

What I was trying to get across is summed up well by FHGL. There is an astringency to the string sound that in no way is vinegary or sour.

cloughie

16-05-12, 08:51

Good heavens no !

What I was trying to get across is summed up well by FHGL. There is an astringency to the string sound that in no way is vinegary or sour.

I've always liked the Kletzki and I think it was probably the first 'complete' recording. I often wonder if Walter Weller's recording of the 1st with the SRO was originally scheduled for Kletzki - it took place around about the time of his death!

umslopogaas

16-05-12, 12:07

#50 Roehre

"... sleeve ... proudly announcing (in German) this was an uncut version ... Never seen this with English sleeves though."

I have the English HMV LP of this work (ASD 2889) and it states "(complete version)" front and back, with a note by Previn on how much he and the LSO love playing it. The main sleeve note, c. 1973, is by Edward Greenfield.

Eine Alpensinfonie

15-06-12, 07:35

Panjandrum

15-06-12, 07:43

According to the new listings on the BBC website, this week's BaL is a repeat.

WTF?

Alison

15-06-12, 07:47

23.-6.12 - 9.30am Building a Library
Another chance to hear William Mival with a personal recommendation from the available recordings of Rachmaninov's Second Symphony.

According to the new listings on the BBC website, this week's BaL is a repeat.

Goodness me, that's a first isn't it ? Could be a chance to catch up with missed editions I suppose . . .

Caliban

15-06-12, 10:26

Goodness me, that's a first isn't it ? Could be a chance to catch up with missed editions I suppose . . .

That's looking on the bright side.

The money's obviously run out.

Not even enough left to pay for AMcG to lavish praise for an hour on 3 or 4 CDs "in conversation with" a chum.

Last one to leave, turn out the lights.

If the meter hasn't already run out...

:sadface:

Sir Monty Golfear

15-06-12, 11:11

Perhaps Gergiev's over-rated poorly recorded version might sound better second around !

cloughie

15-06-12, 13:29

The money's obviously run out.

:sadface:

R3 obviously has splashed out too much on celebrity presenters and guests for essential classics.

Caliban

15-06-12, 13:35

R3 obviously has splashed out too much on celebrity presenters and guests for essential classics.

I was feeling ratty earlier. I wonder if that is the reason, or if someone's let them down.... :erm:

vinteuil

15-06-12, 14:11

... ah, well - perhaps someone has at last realised that we don't need to devote too much time to this sort of composer :whistle:

Sir Monty Golfear

15-06-12, 14:39

R3 obviously has splashed out too much on celebrity presenters and guests for essential classics.

Yes....maybe so......but I think David Owen Norris was well worth it!

Caliban

15-06-12, 15:30

... ah, well - perhaps someone has at last realised that we don't need to devote too much time to this sort of composer :whistle:

:grr:

:winkeye:

(I got a yellow card for "parading" my Liszt antipathy... but others can take their bêtes noires for walks on a silken leash whenever they choose :steam:)

:laugh:

Sir Monty Golfear

15-06-12, 16:08

... ah, well - perhaps someone has at last realised that we don't need to devote too much time to this sort of composer :whistle:

Nothing wrong with Rachmaninov.....no room for music snobs here!

vinteuil

15-06-12, 16:31

no room for music snobs here!

... so we are to be banned - censored - excluded???

Ah, so much for this welcoming inclusive approach :whistle:

mikealdren

15-06-12, 16:44

"23.-6.12 - 9.30am Building a Library
Another chance to hear William Mival with a personal recommendation from the available recordings of Rachmaninov's Second Symphony.
According to the new listings on the BBC website, this week's BaL is a repeat."

Does anyone else remember the classic broadcasting faux pas a few years ago when they played the tape from the previous week's BAL again. After about 20 mins they stopped it with comment to the effect that 'although the format of the programme doesn't change from week to week it shouldn't be that similar!'

Mike

Roehre

15-06-12, 16:49

... ah, well - perhaps someone has at last realised that we don't need to devote too much time to this sort of composer :whistle:

That's what i was told as I started to listen to classical music, some 40 years ago :yikes:

Sir Monty Golfear

15-06-12, 19:11

... so we are to be banned - censored - excluded???

Ah, so much for this welcoming inclusive approach :whistle:

Perhaps you can qualify your original quote .........Regarding Rachmaninov as being " this sort of composer"...if that is not exclusive I fail to understand what is.

jayne lee wilson

15-06-12, 19:17

Come on now, The Bells, Symphonic Dances, Symphony No.1, Isle of the Dead, Piano Concerto No.4, Paganini Rhapsody... Heavens he produced quite enough out-and-out masterpieces for one lifetime, might have done more if he hadn't had to scratch a living banging away at the keyboard...
... ah, well - perhaps someone has at last realised that we don't need to devote too much time to this sort of composer :whistle:

Eine Alpensinfonie

15-06-12, 20:14

That's looking on the bright side.

On the contrary, it's the first time I've arrived at work on a Friday morning when I haven't felt burnout as a result of looking up the available recordings. Now that's what I call looking on the bright side. :winkeye:

Caliban

15-06-12, 20:14

On the contrary, it's the first time I've arrived at work on a Friday morning when I haven't felt burnout as a result of looking up the available recordings. Now that's what I call looking on the bright side. :winkeye:

:ok::ok::cool:

Sir Monty Golfear

15-06-12, 20:51

Come on now, The Bells, Symphonic Dances, Symphony No.1, Isle of the Dead, Piano Concerto No.4, Paganini Rhapsody... Heavens he produced quite enough out-and-out masterpieces for one lifetime, might have done more if he hadn't had to scratch a living banging away at the keyboard...

I totally agree !.........and he wasn't half bad on the old Joanna either!!

Brassbandmaestro

15-06-12, 21:37

Here here^^:ale:

Eine Alpensinfonie

16-06-12, 08:33

... ah, well - perhaps someone has at last realised that we don't need to devote too much time to this sort of composer :whistle:
I have the 1954 HUPP version of Grove's Dictionary which elequently expresses this particular sentiment (long since dismissed).
[Before you ask, I'm trying to think of an acronym for "HUPP"]

Panjandrum

16-06-12, 08:56

Here here^^:ale:

What's here? :erm:

verismissimo

16-06-12, 10:23

In case you didn't hear (here?) William Mival was going to do Firebird but is indisposed, so they are repeating his Rachmaninov S2 BAL.

Caliban

16-06-12, 11:15

In case you didn't hear (here?) William Mival was going to do Firebird but is indisposed, so they are repeating his Rachmaninov S2 BAL.

W-here might one have been able to hear that?

(Just thought - maybe AMcG said it this am at the end of today's BAL? Haven't listened yet...)

Pity - would like to have seen how my fave (Les Siècles/Roth) measured up

ferneyhoughgeliebte

16-06-12, 11:40

(Just thought - maybe AMcG said it this am at the end of today's BAL?
:ok:

cloughie

16-06-12, 11:44

In case you didn't hear (here?) William Mival was going to do Firebird but is indisposed, so they are repeating his Rachmaninov S2 BAL.

BaL must be recorded fairly close to the date of broadcast then, thought they might have one or two in the bank but then I suppose we are close tio the end of the season.

pastoralguy

19-06-12, 18:18

According to the latest Radio Times, this Saturday's CD Review will offer 'Another chance to hear William Mival with a personal recommendation for a recommendation of Rachmaninov's Second Symhony'.

Is this more penny pinching on the part of auntie Beeb? :grr:

Parry1912

19-06-12, 18:36

How else are they to fund BBC3? :whistle:

Eine Alpensinfonie

22-06-12, 07:31

Interesting as it is to hear this programme again, the element of excitement is lost when we already know the outcome.

mikealdren

22-06-12, 09:44

I think the problem here is that the Rach 2 programme is so fresh in the memory.

I'm not sure whether I can really believe that I am saying this but 'surely here's an opportunity for CD review to do one of their studio discussions'. Alternatively, it would be fun to hear a golden oldie broadcast from the archive, something long gone that would let us all bathe in nostalgia.

Mike

Panjandrum

22-06-12, 10:37

Alternatively, it would be fun to hear a golden oldie broadcast from the archive, something long gone that would let us all bathe in nostalgia.

Mike

I think the reason for repeating a recent BAL is because if they went further back into the archives they would run the risk of talking about recordings either having been deleted from the listings or omitting newer versions which had subsequently entered the fray. Consequently,the programme was inevitably only going to be a BAL from the last 6 months. However, a lesson which they could do well to learn would be to record BALs several weeks in advance so that they are not held to ransom by unforeseen circumstances.

My own personal preference would be for the opportunity to present a greater range of selections from new or reissued recordings. At present, only a tiny percentage of records are actually featured and seem to reflect AMcG's preference for baroque music and bizarre arrangements of works better known in their original form.

ostuni

22-06-12, 11:29

It does rather seem like both a missed opportunity, and a lazy way out...

Caliban

22-06-12, 12:03

Alternatively, it would be fun to hear a golden oldie broadcast from the archive, something long gone

V good idea :ok: (though Panny's practical drawback is true).

amateur51

22-06-12, 12:09

I must admit that my original idea was a post that scolded all the moaning minnies, chiding BBC for a mishap. Oh the joy of doing someone else's job .

However I thought I'd be practical instead :smiley:

This might have been the opportunity to take a recent BaL (for the reasons that Panyan has given) and to turn it into an Innocent Ear experiment - I can't remember what the French radio equivalent of BaL is but that does strike me as an interesting extension/variation on the BaL format.

I don't mind the route that R3 has chosen, as I find radio repeats don't pall like TV repeats do - my brain (!).

rauschwerk

22-06-12, 12:19

Interesting as it is to hear this programme again, the element of excitement is lost when we already know the outcome.

To me the extraordinary thing is that it's available as a podcast along with 75 other reviews. Surely there can be very few people to whom that is unavailable?

Don Petter

22-06-12, 12:36

To me the extraordinary thing is that it's available as a podcast along with 75 other reviews. Surely there can be very few people to whom that is unavailable?

While not defending such repeats (which seem like a cheap cop-out to me), I do have several musical friends who, even if they do have computers, wouldn't even know what a podcast was.

Panjandrum

22-06-12, 12:58

While not defending such repeats (which seem like a cheap cop-out to me), I do have several musical friends who, even if they do have computers, wouldn't even know what a podcast was.

The station itself has advised me, in some correspondence we've been having, that I would be better off listening to podcasts or catching up with programmes on the iplayer than listening to the nausea-inducing garbage (dicta mea) that is Breakfast. The assumption is, therefore, that we do all know what podcasts are, and for those who don't, tough!

amateur51

22-06-12, 13:01

The station itself has advised me, in some correspondence we've been having, that I would be better off listening to podcasts or catching up with programmes on the iplayer than listening to the nausea-inducing garbage that is Breakfast. The assumption is, therefore, that we do all know what podcasts are, and for those who don't, tough!My assumption is that they know that Breakfast is much-loathed by a segment of their audience :ok:

I never listen to it now and Through The Night is a much better alternative :smiley:

amateur51

23-06-12, 10:41

Well I enjoyed re-listening to Mr Mival's exploration and found myself being persuaded to get the Weller performance because it offers an 'alternative' view, as Mival says, a brisker, riskier approach, even if the risks don't always come off completely - we shall see :ok:

Maybe the morning sunshine had something to do with it too :erm::smiley:

verismissimo

23-06-12, 13:24

I enjoyed it too. Last time around I was in no position to listen, as I was preparing for surgery in the John Radcliffe in Oxford.

amateur51

23-06-12, 13:27

I enjoyed it too. Last time around I was in no position to listen, as I was preparing for surgery in the John Radcliffe in Oxford.:yikes: all wounds healed, all biopsies successful, all prognoses positive I hope verismissimo?! :erm::smiley:

ferneyhoughgeliebte

23-06-12, 13:38

:yikes: all wounds healed, all biopsies successful, all prognoses positive I hope verismissimo?! :erm::smiley:
:ok:

Eine Alpensinfonie

23-06-12, 14:13

Well I enjoyed re-listening to Mr Mival's exploration and found myself being persuaded to get the Weller performance because it offers an 'alternative' view, as Mival says, a brisker, riskier approach, even if the risks don't always come off completely - we shall see :ok:

That's interesting. I was persuaded to go for the LSO/Rozhdestvensky by Mr Mival's review. That's the great thing about BaL. You don't have to be bound by the final recommendation, but it does help you with the choice.

amateur51

23-06-12, 15:02

That's interesting. I was persuaded to go for the LSO/Rozhdestvensky by Mr Mival's review. That's the great thing about BaL. You don't have to be bound by the final recommendation, but it does help you with the choice.I bought the Rozhdestvensky/LSO almost as soon as it came out & have been very pleased with it, along with the Ashkenazy/Concertgebouw and the Previn/LSO.

The Weller seems to offer a different more energetic risky view.

But I agree EA - that's the magic of BaL when it's done well :smiley::ok:

Brassbandmaestro

24-06-12, 08:02

I am very surprised it's Wellere's version. Sometimes though, when this happens, you may feel at times, that you have missed your conception of a work that you thought you know well!

soileduk

27-06-12, 17:33

http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/B00002DG75/mffindcd-21

Caliban

27-06-12, 17:45

http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/B00002DG75/mffindcd-21

Bloody good value! :ok:

Peter Katin

04-07-12, 11:45

I agree about not cutting the works . Did you ever record Rach 3 ? ....I grew up with your recordings of the 1st and 2nd concertos on Decca , I still love them.!

Well, I've played Rach 3 many times, but one performance was recorded, in 1970. I wouldn't be ashamed of it! But I have the only copy - it would go well with No.1 from 1958.

visualnickmos

04-07-12, 12:52

Bloody good value! :ok:

....and even better b******Y value if you get it in its original incarnation as part of the complete symphonies set. Plus great "fillers" too, I might add!

Sir Monty Golfear

15-08-12, 16:01

Well, I've played Rach 3 many times, but one performance was recorded, in 1970. I wouldn't be ashamed of it! But I have the only copy - it would go well with No.1 from 1958.

Shame it isn't available!?....dare I ask who you recorded it with?

Thropplenoggin

01-01-13, 19:38

I don't own Rachmaninov's Second, having only begun getting to know the composer through the piano music.

I have now read through this read. Obviously, Previn was the BaL winner (I'm hoping to hear that BaL in a week or so), but Ashkenazy has much nicer sound, with the Concertgebouw brass really seem to rasp thrillingly in the crescendos.

I have two questions for MBers:

1) How important do you feel the first movement repeat it is? Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Symphony_No._2_(Rachmaninoff))lists recordings as either complete or complete, first movement repeat.

2) This is a recent release and I wondered what MBers made of it:

http://i.prs.to/t_200/emi9154732.jpg

Reviews seem to be mixed - the first movement clocks in at over 23 mins. The recording also seems quite compressed and distant for a modern recording.

PJPJ

01-01-13, 20:33

.....
Reviews seem to be mixed - the first movement clocks in at over 23 mins. The recording also seems quite compressed and distant for a modern recording.

I find with many Liverpool recordings that they need to be played at quite high levels before they snap into focus. It's a fine performance, but Ashkenazy's excitement and the Concertgebouw's magnificent playing still never fails to impress.

johnb

01-01-13, 20:58

I bought the Petrenko recording just before Christmas. Whenever I listen to it I am greatly put off by the coarse string sound, especially when they play loudly in the higher reaches where, on my system, they sound very coarse indeed and make unpleasant listening. It was so unpleasant that I wondered whether there was something badly wrong with my audio system, until I put on one of the BIS Sibelius/Vanska CDs!

It is probably due to my system as much as the recording's engineering - my PMC FB1+ speakers are probably quite revealing, which can be (and often is) a curse.

Alison

01-01-13, 21:20

I found this cd something of a disappointment, somehow lacking in bloom and tension. I recognise the sound characteristics identified by John.

Not to be lightly dismissed, I look forward to another spin and the chance to reassess soon.

Barbirollians

01-01-13, 21:27

cloughie

01-01-13, 21:30

ferneyhoughgeliebte

01-01-13, 22:17

Barbirollians

01-01-13, 22:20

Bargain !

Kletzki and Pappano also worthy of a mention . Previn still my favourite from Pappano , Kletzki and Rozh.

Caliban

01-01-13, 22:24

Obviously, Previn was the BaL winner (I'm hoping to hear that BaL in a week or so)
:winkeye:

Ashkenazy has much nicer sound, with the Concertgebouw brass really seem to rasp thrillingly in the crescendos.

I'm not sure the Ashkenazy has a "much nicer" sound. I've never had a problem with the Previn, though the Ashkenazy sounds great too.

I've had both for years, and the Ashkenazy's good for the sheer visceral excitement of the scherzo and some of the climaxes. But for me that's not what Rach 2's about. Previn gets closer to the warm, surging core of the piece, I think. It's one of those 'stand out' recordings of something which has an extra quality to it that's somehow beyond argument or definition. And the floating, caressing clarinet solo by Jack Brymer in the slow movement puts it out in front on that basis alone, for me.

You simply have to have it, Thropples :ok: Simple as that.

I've no strong feelings about the first movement repeat. And I don't know that Petrenko version.

:smiley:

gurnemanz

01-01-13, 22:41

Ashkenazy was my first recording of No 2 and I found it just a bit self-indulgent and slow . Previn on the other hand was superb from start to finish and I find no problem with the sound albeit I understand that the analogue ASD had more warmth and bloom.

Otherwise I am very fond of the Rozhdestvensky/LSO which was on Pickwick back in the day .

I'm quite a recent convert to Rachmaninov. Previn was my only recording of No 2 until I acquired the good value Brilliant Classics box which contains the Rozhdestvensky/LSO. It is also on Regis (http://www.mdt.co.uk/rachmaninov-symphony-no-2-london-symphony-orchestra-rozhdestvensky-regis.html)

Thropplenoggin

02-01-13, 09:23

I'm not sure the Ashkenazy has a "much nicer" sound. I've never had a problem with the Previn, though the Ashkenazy sounds great too.

:smiley:

Side by side, the sound sounds crisper, cleaner, more present. That's not to say that Previn's performance isn't more rewarding. I hardly know the work and so am unable to comment on this. I speak merely in terms of the sonic palette. But perhaps this is also in part due to the Concertgebouw's brass section?

Anyway, you make a compelling case for Previn and I will give it my undivided attention on Qobuz soon.

Given your avatar, you might be interested in these comments (http://www.for3.org/forums/showthread.php?350-What-are-you-listening-to-now&p=242793#post242793) on a new(ish) recording of his string quartets.

Sir Monty Golfear

02-01-13, 09:49

For me the Previn version is still the benchmark. Has anyone considered the faster paced RPO version under Temikirnov?.

cloughie

02-01-13, 09:56

For me the Previn version is still the benchmark. Has anyone considered the faster paced RPO version under Temikirnov?.

Sanderling still my favourite - slight cuts but for many years the most complete - a beautiful performance.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Rachmaninov-Symphony-2-Sergey/dp/B000001GXP/ref=sr_1_1?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1357120434&sr=1-1

PJPJ

02-01-13, 12:54

Ashkenazy was my first recording of No 2 and I found it just a bit self-indulgent and slow . Previn on the other hand was superb from start to finish ........

That may, of course, be down to your perception of the recording:

Ashkenazy

1. 18:03
2. 9:36
3. 14:20
4. 13:02

Previn

1. 19:10
2. 10:10
3. 15:45
4. 14:17

Thropplenoggin

02-01-13, 12:59

That may, of course, be down to your perception of the recording:

Ashkenazy

1. 18:03
2. 9:36
3. 14:20
4. 13:02

Previn

1. 19:10
2. 10:10
3. 15:45
4. 14:17

Furthermore, there's a 3CD Decca disc with the other two symphonies, Symphonic Dances, Isle of the Dead and The Bells currently to be had for a tenner at MDT. I own none of these works, though have come to know and marvel at the 'Isle of the Dead'. Am I about to break my January purchase hiatus? :yikes:

Caliban

02-01-13, 13:01

That may, of course, be down to your perception of the recording:

Ashkenazy

1. 18:03
2. 9:36
3. 14:20
4. 13:02

Previn

1. 19:10
2. 10:10
3. 15:45
4. 14:17

Thanks, PJPJ, I was going to query Barbi's comment when I first read it but without the evidence. Ashkenazy does seem on listening to be more incisive in the fast music, and indeed less langorous in the slow... Bracing, and very much with its own merits, but... well, I've already said what I think above. :smiley:

Barbirollians

02-01-13, 13:08

That may, of course, be down to your perception of the recording:

Ashkenazy

1. 18:03
2. 9:36
3. 14:20
4. 13:02

Previn

1. 19:10
2. 10:10
3. 15:45
4. 14:17

That is very interesting PJPJ . Quite plainly it is indeed a question of perception . I have not played the Ashkenazy for years but until I bought the Previn I thought that the symphony was rather too chocolate boxy all round . The Previn is just much more characterful and exciting than I remember the Ashkenazy being.

I shall have to dig the Ashkenazy out and listen again .

PJPJ

02-01-13, 13:49

That is very interesting PJPJ . Quite plainly it is indeed a question of perception . I have not played the Ashkenazy for years but until I bought the Previn I thought that the symphony was rather too chocolate boxy all round . The Previn is just much more characterful and exciting than I remember the Ashkenazy being.

I shall have to dig the Ashkenazy out and listen again .

Slightly off topic, but referring also to johnb's post above.

A few years ago I was trying out speakers and convinced myself that for the money I couldn't do better than PMC, a view I still hold, as they suit me very well. I took along the first release of the Ashkenazy and, especially for an early digital effort, it sounded terrific, so much so I could hardly stop and put another disc on. There followed an hour and a half of various SACDs on audition, some in surround. I was interested to hear what the early Decca would sound like after all that, and it was, frankly, un-listenable. It played exactly as it had done an hour or two earlier, but in the mean time, my ears had got tuned to other and perhaps better methods of recording. In isolation and with uncontaminated ears, the Ashkenazy still sounds impressive today.

My PMC based set-up doesn't like the Petrenko recording on EMI but it sounds well enough on my less revealing system. EMI did better technically for Groves and co in the 1960s and 1970s. Fortunately, I kept the old equipment as historic recordings sound so much more comfortable on that.

Gergiev on LSO Live is also a gripping reading but not universally highly thought of by professional reviewers, due, if I remember correctly, to slight extremes of tempo. I would like very much to have the latest incarnation of Previn EMI, either the EMI Japan SACD, or the 24 bit download, either of which would not have the constriction in the sound quality of the CD releases.

Barbirollians

03-01-13, 00:36

Dug Ashkenazy out . A cassette with a bit of hiss but indeed a very good recording- much beautiful playing but the slow movement just seems a bit over milked still to my ears . Still seemed longer than listening to the Previn !!!

Sir Monty Golfear

03-01-13, 08:37

I find Gergievs LSO version has A very poor recorded balance. It is very dry and scratchy on the violins. :whistle:
SMG

PJPJ

03-01-13, 11:03

I find Gergievs LSO version has A very poor recorded balance. It is very dry and scratchy on the violins. :whistle:
SMG

It is still a surprise to me how LSO recordings sound so very different depending on the equipment used. Your description matches my experience of several highly rated Mercury recordings, and they, in turn, may sound a good deal better on other systems.

Barbirollians

03-01-13, 12:08

Such a shame that the Ormandy is in the cut version - what string playing from Philadelphia !

I have just compared the Cbow/Ashkenazy opening Largo with that of the LSO and Rozhdestvensky as I had them both on cassette. The latter albeit it is probably slower has much more life and character than the Ashkenazy which makes his recording I am sure seem slower than it is .

ferneyhoughgeliebte

03-01-13, 13:33

Such a shame that the Ormandy is in the cut version - what string playing from Philadelphia !
The CBS/SONY recording was cut, but the RCA recording from the early '70s was advertized as "complete" when it appeared on LP. This later version was the first recording of the work I bought - it didn't endear me to the work at the time.

Sir Monty Golfear

03-01-13, 17:07

It is still a surprise to me how LSO recordings sound so very different depending on the equipment used. Your description matches my experience of several highly rated Mercury recordings, and they, in turn, may sound a good deal better on other systems.
I have to agree with you PJPJ,
I find some of the Mercury recordings quite shrill sometimes , but find some of the recordings exceptionally good. I do accept that speakers make a big difference in all of this. I use very good headphones too, and find that perhaps a lot of recordings suffer with to forward a balance on the 1st and 2nd violin sections. This in turn causes compression, hardness and distorted mass violin sound without any of the sweetness but not forwardness that can be had from a live concert balance.
The speakers I use are my own design. That is what I do.
If you are interested you can find out more on http://www.knightloudspeakers.com

Cheers Ian

Barbirollians

03-01-13, 17:19

The CBS/SONY recording was cut, but the RCA recording from the early '70s was advertized as "complete" when it appeared on LP. This later version was the first recording of the work I bought - it didn't endear me to the work at the time.

I don't know that one - the CBS one is exciting but cut albeit in a version approved by the composer.

ferneyhoughgeliebte

03-01-13, 19:48

I don't know that one - the CBS one is exciting but cut albeit in a version approved by the composer.
This is it, Barbi:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Symphony-2-Rachmaninoff/dp/B000003EVK/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1357242303&sr=8-2

I also have a cassette tape with Boult conducting the "cut" version: very good (Boult's abilities over a wide range of Musics shouldn't surprise me as much as it does) - but the cuts rule it out as generally recommendable.

Barbirollians

04-01-13, 10:10

This is it, Barbi:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Symphony-2-Rachmaninoff/dp/B000003EVK/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1357242303&sr=8-2

I also have a cassette tape with Boult conducting the "cut" version: very good (Boult's abilities over a wide range of Musics shouldn't surprise me as much as it does) - but the cuts rule it out as generally recommendable.

Interesting but I think I will pass . I have enough recordings of this symphony methinks . Pletnev was rave reviewed as i recall it but last time i played it he seemed just too fast throughout . Like a ride in a very fast train through beautiful countryside .

Barbirollians

04-01-13, 11:17

PJPJ

04-01-13, 11:48

I have to agree with you PJPJ,
I find some of the Mercury recordings quite shrill sometimes , but find some of the recordings exceptionally good. I do accept that speakers make a big difference in all of this. I use very good headphones too, and find that perhaps a lot of recordings suffer with to forward a balance on the 1st and 2nd violin sections. This in turn causes compression, hardness and distorted mass violin sound without any of the sweetness but not forwardness that can be had from a live concert balance.
The speakers I use are my own design. That is what I do.
If you are interested you can find out more on http://www.knightloudspeakers.com

Cheers Ian

Thanks - interesting link. I confess I almost never use headphones as they seem to me to intensify any imperfections in both recording technique and in playing.

:oh:

PJPJ

04-01-13, 11:53

Going back to the Previn -does anyone have any view on whether it is worth getting the latest 1999 remastering in the EMI Masters series formerly a GROC ? My version is the 1993 remastering on the much lamented old HMV Classics label.

Go on, treat yourself:

http://www.cdjapan.co.jp/detailview.html?KEY=TOGE-12053

and see here:

http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/nov99/rach2prevn.htm

for another view or two.

PS No, I haven't got the Japanese SACD - what puts me off is the potential £7 (or is it more, now?) inspection fee plus the added duty which may be payable this end. The disc may end up costing £40 or more.

johnb

04-01-13, 14:09

Going back to the Petrenko - I think I was a bit unfair in what I previously wrote about the string sound. I was listening at relatively high levels in a room that is pretty lively, both of which tended to emphasise the coarseness. (My living room has rugs on wooden floors and original wooden shutters at the windows instead of curtains, as it seems a pity to hide the floor to ceiling woodwork of the window surrounds.) I brought in additional rugs as an experiment and this has tamed much of the excess liveliness and the Petrenko disc sounds much better. (Now I need to decide what to do about carpets/rugs on a more permanent basis.)

Two further points about that recording. Someone mentioned the length of the first movement (23 mins) compared to other recordings (the Previn takes ~ 18' 50" on my LP) - the main reason isn't that Petrenko is slow but that he includes the exposition repeat which is often omitted.

The other thing worth mentioning is that much of the symphony is recorded at a much lower level than what we are used to and it is only at the final climax that the level reaches the maximum. I guess that all audio engineers have to make choices about how they fit an orchestra's dynamic range into a CD and the one responsible for this recording has decided to do it slightly differently to what we have become accustomed. I'm not entirely convinced but perhaps further listening will change my mind.

Curalach

04-01-13, 14:24

PS No, I haven't got the Japanese SACD - what puts me off is the potential £7 (or is it more, now?) inspection fee plus the added duty which may be payable this end. The disc may end up costing £40 or more.

I have not found that to be a problem ordering single cds from cdjapan, selecting airmail delivery. The most recent, oddly enough, Rach 2 with the Japan Philharmonic conducted by Alexander Lazarev, good performance, arrived in time for Christmas with nothing extra to pay. This differs from my experience with Amazon.jp and HMV.jp where I have always had to pay duty and collection fee.