Vivaldi

[Despina dello Stagno]

I have posted a link to Chedeville's arrangement of the Seasons (the Op. 8 of the masses) on the Lost Sounds threat, but it has turned my thoughts to Vivaldi's popularity, most particularly in France.

At the time of his death he seems to have been held in regard almost as high as he is now. Another French example from the era when his following was as strong as the concept of copyright was weak is the Corrette Psalm 148 Laudate Dominum. (there are three youtube clips)

Is this sort of thing correctly a contrafact, where no words existed previously?

[doversoul1]

A related article by Paul Dyer of the Australian Brandenburg Orchestra.

http://www.limelightmagazine.com.au/Article/268588,vivaldi-refreshed-just-in-time-for-spring.aspx

[Despina dello Stagno]

Thanks for that interesting steer, doversoul.

I have just looked in the BUCEM catalogue to guage how popular he might have been in England at the time. There are a few imprints by Walsh (e.g. Ops 3 & 5), but it appears that, on the evidence of academic and country house libraries, to all intents and purposes he was not part of the wave of Italian gusto's to hit this country, and the Seasons were unknown here until the last century.

Is that correct?

[doversoul1]

According to Christopher Hogwood, Vivaldi’s music was known in England but, being of Venetian school, ‘less admired than Corelli’s music' which was from Rome (?).
(Handel (2007), p160).

Wasn’t the Four Seasons supposed to have been discovered in 1950 in New York?

[Richard Barrett]

Vivaldi

There's been a bit of Vivaldi-related talk on the baroque/early music listening thread so I wondered whether there'd be enthusiasm for a thread about his music. I guess that for many people the name still conjures up anachronistically romantic performances of the Quattro Stagioni and not much else, apart maybe from Stravinsky's comment that he composed the same concerto several hundred times. (Stravinsky of course could not have known more than a handful of said concertos.)

I think that a major change in the way his music was performed and appreciated came with Harnoncourt's recording of the Seasons, released in 1977. For the first time the enormous variety of colour and expression latent in the music was brought out, with the help of Baroque instruments and a no-holds-barred attitude to how they might be played and how they might sound. (One example: the slow movement of the "Spring" concerto, where the "barking" of the viola part sounds in the famous ASMiF recording like a smoothly integrated part of the violin's dreamy accompaniment, whereas with Harnoncourt it sounds like, well, a dog barking, as suggested in the score.) This I think led directly to new generations of performers exploring the rest of the Vivaldi repertoire with this kind of approach, like Giardino Armonico, Ensemble Matheus, Pomo d'Oro, Concerto Italiano and the rest, finally bringing out IMO what is most distinctive in Vivaldi.

Not so well known is the fact that his second most prolific concerto soloist is the bassoon, with 39 concertos. Something about this instrument (and/or a particular player he worked with) brought out the best in Vivaldi, and many of these pieces are on a very high level of accomplishment (and virtuosity) indeed. Something that's particularly interesting and radical about Vivaldi's instrumental music is what might be called a modular construction, where recurrences of material are often truncated or extended in ways that almost suggest tape-editing, and ingenious textures which sometimes involve richly interlocking figures while elsewhere (especially in slow movements) seeming to result from taking a "normal" texture and removing most of it.

And then there are all the operas and church music, and the various instrumental pieces which don't involve solo/tutti interactions. I can get into a state where Vivaldi is all I want to hear for some time. Of course he was apt to reuse ideas in different contexts, maybe giving the same melody a different accompaniment or chopping something off the end of it, but this can also give the impression of one enormous kaleidoscopic work where sometimes different "pieces" relate more closely than different "movements" in the same piece, which is another interesting and radical idea.

[vinteuil]

.

Not so well known is the fact that his second most prolific concerto soloist is the bassoon, with 39 concertos. Something about this instrument (and/or a particular player he worked with) brought out the best in Vivaldi, and many of these pieces are on a very high level of accomplishment (and virtuosity) indeed.

... so glad to hear this. Yes, I find the bassoon concertos particularly rewarding. The series with Sergio Azzolini on naive is compelling -

http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B013JCGE5U

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

It is a terrific time for Vivaldi's Music - when Stravinsky made his comment, not only were there very few works available to him, but they were all performed in a genteel way, guaranteed to make it all sound very "samey". I found his work terribly uninteresting until the 1980s - first with the Polish Chamber Orchestra's performances and recording of the Four Seasons, which started to incorporate varieties of bowing and performing techniques later taken up by Nigel Kennedy in his (rightly) popular recording and performances.

In comparison to the astonishing recordings from around the start of this century, however, with their gleeful vigour and attack, and the astonishing array of instrumental colours - it really does seem as if Vivaldi's "moment" has truly, wonderfully arrived.

And the Chamber Music, too ... the Trio Sonatas and the "Manchester" Violin Sonatas: tremendous stuff!

[Beef Oven!]

Good idea for a thread.

Vivaldi has only clicked into focus for me in the last 6 months! Up until this point, I was a victim of the 'anachronistic, saccharine music' view. Material written for and by men in powdered wigs and tights! Any schoolboy walking down the corridor with a Vivaldi LP should be duffed-up! In fact when my Il Giardino Armonico 11 CD box set arrived in 2014, I groaned at the amount of Vivaldi on it.

Now I can't get enough of his music and what RB says about 'Vivaldi is all I want to hear for some time' really resonates with me.

I'm staggered by how much power, energy and light and shade Vivaldi gets from such small forces. The harmonics seem endless.

This may be irrelevant for most people, but I also like the fact that I don't need to schedule a whole morning to hear a couple of good concertos!


Edit: It's relevant to say that I've always loved Le Quattro Stagioni and the rest of Op.8 along with L'astro Armonico.

[MickyD]

The Vivaldi recording which really stunned me was the 'Gloria' from the Academy of Ancient Music and the Choir of Christ Church Oxford under Simon Preston issued around the late 70s. That coupled with Emma Kirkby's performance of "Nulla in mundo pax sincera" made for an LP which really changed my perceptions of the composer. It probably sounds a bit English and polite now to some ears, but I think it still holds its own. Now all this and more can be had on a twofer for under £2 on Amazon!

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Vivaldi-Gloria-Nulla-mundo-sincera/dp/B0000042HT/ref=sr_1_1?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1461349293&sr=1-1&keywords=nulla+in+mundo+pax+sincera

[richardfinegold]

I usually enjoy most Vivaldi recordings, whether they are of vocal music, Violin Concertos, Bassoon, Flute, Cello, Lute, Mandolin, or Viola D'Amore Concertos. Did I miss anything?
I have been particularly taken with Rachel Podger's series on Channel Classics--La Stravaganza and other VCs--great performances and stunning life like recordings. His Vocal Music tends to treat the Soloist like a Violin, but that's ok.
Unlike the OP, I am not so enamored of the HIPP movement here. Many of the HIPP Vivaldi recordings that I have heard (not all certainly, and I don't mean to tar with a broad brush) emphasize speed for the sake of speed, don't allow the music to breathe, and make me want to reach for a bottle of Prozac as an antidote. At the other end of the spectra, I don't thrill to the thought of Karajan and ASM in 4 Seasons, but I would prefer a sensibly played and paced modern instruments recording to a methamphetamine laden HIPP one.

[MickyD]

I think that a major change in the way his music was performed and appreciated came with Harnoncourt's recording of the Seasons, released in 1977. For the first time the enormous variety of colour and expression latent in the music was brought out, with the help of Baroque instruments and a no-holds-barred attitude to how they might be played and how they might sound. (One example: the slow movement of the "Spring" concerto, where the "barking" of the viola part sounds in the famous ASMiF recording like a smoothly integrated part of the violin's dreamy accompaniment, whereas with Harnoncourt it sounds like, well, a dog barking, as suggested in the score.) This I think led directly to new generations of performers exploring the rest of the Vivaldi repertoire with this kind of approach, like Giardino Armonico, Ensemble Matheus, Pomo d'Oro, Concerto Italiano and the rest, finally bringing out IMO what is most distinctive in Vivaldi.

I can remember a very hostile reaction to that old Harnoncourt recording - I heard the slow movement from 'Winter' recently and am astonished even now at how daringly fast he took it.

[Richard Barrett]

I can remember a very hostile reaction to that old Harnoncourt recording

Indeed - but how influential it's been!

RF's comment and yours reminded me of a contemporary account from the German merchant Uffenbach, who heard Vivaldi play in 1715 and described his playing thus: "Towards the end [of an opera performance] Vivaldi played a solo accompaniment - splendid - to which he appended a cadenza which really frightened me, for such playing has never been nor can be: he brought his fingers up to only a straw's distance from the bridge, leaving no room for the bow - and that on all four strings with imitations and incredible speed. With all this he astounded everyone, but I cannot say it pleased me, for it was not so pleasant to listen to as it was skilfully executed." (my emphasis)

[Richard Barrett]

sensibly played and paced

... begs all kinds of questions, doesn't it? also: save us from "sensibly"-played music!

I'm now listening by the way to the second disc of oboe concertos in the Naive series, played by the amazing Alfredo Bernardini. An hour of oboe concertos wouldn't normally be my idea of late night fun, but I haven't often heard the baroque oboe played as well as this.

[richardfinegold]

Indeed - but how influential it's been!

RF's comment and yours reminded me of a contemporary account from the German merchant Uffenbach, who heard Vivaldi play in 1715 and described his playing thus: "Towards the end [of an opera performance] Vivaldi played a solo accompaniment - splendid - to which he appended a cadenza which really frightened me, for such playing has never been nor can be: he brought his fingers up to only a straw's distance from the bridge, leaving no room for the bow - and that on all four strings with imitations and incredible speed. With all this he astounded everyone, but I cannot say it pleased me, for it was not so pleasant to listen to as it was skilfully executed." (my emphasis)

And are we to assume that the teenaged girls that played most of his Compositions had the same technical facility? And if they did, I wouldn't care anyway. Let the music breathe a little.

[MickyD]

Thanks for the Uffenbach quote, Richard - I hadn't seen that one before, fascinating.