Grumble Thread

[edashtav]

In our neck of the woods - E Suffolk - new warehouses of stupendous size are springing up everywhere presumably in anticipation of free-port status for the area. It would seem sensible to require their vast roofs to be covered by photovoltaic panels but they aren't, so I hope and Truss that some of the solar farms will be encouraged to migrate skywards.

It’s not that simple! Where photovoltaic cells have been added to existing vast roofs over warehouses they have caused a great upsurge in devastating whole warehouse fires. The reasons for these fires remains a matter of debate but they seem to be linked to the cells producing D.C. current which has different properties aand safery needs from the A.C. Current used within the warehouse and the efficiency of existing thermal insulation under the photovoltaic cells. If there has been faulty installation, an initial small fire can suddenly ‘let rip’ and without immediate, successful fire-fighting, a small incident can spread quickly leading to a devastating fire.

There is need for caution whilst research evidence can be turned into more robust and effective building standards and rules.
There may be roofs aplenty screaming out for the addition of photovoltaic cells but insurers and wise heads may shout, “Steady as we go!”

[gradus]

Let's hope that the problems can be overcome, there are acres of roof space waiting for their chance to produce electricity. We need farm land for food.

[oddoneout]

It’s not that simple! Where photovoltaic cells have been added to existing vast roofs over warehouses they have caused a great upsurge in devastating whole warehouse fires. The reasons for these fires remains a matter of debate but they seem to be linked to the cells producing D.C. current which has different properties aand safery needs from the A.C. Current used within the warehouse and the efficiency of existing thermal insulation under the photovoltaic cells. If there has been faulty installation, an initial small fire can suddenly ‘let rip’ and without immediate, successful fire-fighting, a small incident can spread quickly leading to a devastating fire.

There is need for caution whilst research evidence can be turned into more robust and effective building standards and rules.
There may be roofs aplenty screaming out for the addition of photovoltaic cells but insurers and wise heads may shout, “Steady as we go!”

From the fire fighting angle the difficulty(whether domestic or commercial) is that the panels continue to generate current DC until isolated, but the isolation switch is more often than not in the roof void - which for obvious reasons is less than ideal...
Effective -which means that they are not just drawn up and put into the legislation but also enforced - construction standards would deal with most of the issues. Having the isolation switch where it can be used, having a roof constructed of suitable materials, and - the weak link in much of this - having adequately qualified, experienced and supervised companies doing the work, are essential - but not in the government's view I would assume. The Freeport set-up seems to me to virtually guarantee that things will be done badly/dangerously as they are a regulation free zone. They also potentially cover enormous swathes of land that are supposedly protected. https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...sside-plymouth

[edashtav]

There’s a further tranche of issues around roof areas getting too hot: the performance of photovoltaic cells falls away as their temperature increases. The difference is sufficient to encourage remedial measure such as spraying the cells with recycled ‘gray’ rainwater. Such measures, of course, use power and reduce overall efficiency of the bank of cells.

[oddoneout]

There’s a further tranche of issues around roof areas getting too hot: the performance of photovoltaic cells falls away as their temperature increases. The difference is sufficient to encourage remedial measure such as spraying the cells with recycled ‘gray’ rainwater. Such measures, of course, use power and reduce overall efficiency of the bank of cells.

If the water cools the panels then why would it decrease efficiency?

[edashtav]

If the water cools the panels then why would it decrease efficiency?

Well-spotted decrease efficiency n to misinterpretation.
Perhaps this addiition may help:
decrease efficiency as the energy to deliver the water will use up some of the power produced by the cells.

[oddoneout]

Well-spotted decrease efficiency n to misinterpretation.
Perhaps this addiition may help:
decrease efficiency as the energy to deliver the water will use up some of the power produced by the cells.

I wondered if you were referring to the decrease from the light absorption being affected by the film of water.
It's the net result that matters though isn't it. If the improved efficiency from lower temperatures is greater than the energy used to cool then that's a positive. It's the same with airsource heat pumps - the pumps use energy but the output in terms of heat is greater than the input.

[oddoneout]

Why no publicity for BBC Young Musician 2022?
Quite by accident I noticed it a few minutes ago in the BBC4 listings. They can drive us to distraction with adverts for the beep beep Carol Competition but not this? Mind you whether the broadcast will be worth watching in terms of presentation I don't know - the first few minutes haven't been promising.
Music and musicians are still (just about) one of this country's few continuing successes so why not make the most of it while it lasts? This is the kind of BBC yoof attention that I think many(most) of us can support.

[gurnemanz]

Why no publicity for BBC Young Musician 2022?
Quite by accident I noticed it a few minutes ago in the BBC4 listings. They can drive us to distraction with adverts for the beep beep Carol Competition but not this? Mind you whether the broadcast will be worth watching in terms of presentation I don't know - the first few minutes haven't been promising.
Music and musicians are still (just about) one of this country's few continuing successes so why not make the most of it while it lasts? This is the kind of BBC yoof attention that I think many(most) of us can support.

They're not overdoing the exposure - one hour between five artists in a non-peak slot on a non-mainstream channel.
I also spotted it by chance. It's not mentioned as a highlight in the Observer's TV guide.

[Nick Armstrong]

Why no publicity for BBC Young Musician 2022? They can drive us to distraction with adverts for the beep beep Carol Competition but not this?

Quite

The same thought struck me when I noticed a few days ago that coverage is starting - and set it to record. I’m assuming it will be necessary to fast forward through fatuous ‘presentation’…

(Meant to start a thread here to alert the interested, but never got round to it )

[oddoneout]

Quite

The same thought struck me when I noticed a few days ago that coverage is starting - and set it to record. I’m assuming it will be necessary to fast forward through fatuous ‘presentation’…

(Meant to start a thread here to alert the interested, but never got round to it )

The fast fwd button will see plenty of action, and if some forumites think the morning schedules are bad for snippets of music then you ain't heard nuthin ...

[Pulcinella]

Home insurance renewal quote from Direct Line yesterday:
Last year £265.44
Next year £312.48

I feel a phone call coming on.
Despite cuts in policing I'm not aware of more burglaries etc, so can this increase be attributed mostly to increased costs if a repair is needed?
Another 'Benefit of Brexit'?

[RichardB]

[oddoneout]

Home insurance renewal quote from Direct Line yesterday:
Last year £265.44
Next year £312.48

I feel a phone call coming on.
Despite cuts in policing I'm not aware of more burglaries etc, so can this increase be attributed mostly to increased costs if a repair is needed?
Another 'Benefit of Brexit'?

No, it's the reward for loyalty...
Stay with the same company and they'll try it on with the renewals. Although yes, they might try the increased labour/materials etc costs line when challenged, but the underlying trend has been there for years, across a range of services.

[Petrushka]

No, it's the reward for loyalty...
Stay with the same company and they'll try it on with the renewals. Although yes, they might try the increased labour/materials etc costs line when challenged, but the underlying trend has been there for years, across a range of services.

I'm with Saga and have had a renewal difference almost identical to Pulcinella. Saga claim that the quote of £275.91 is the same that would be offered to a new customer and I thought that this was now legally mandatory. I did think of phoning Saga for an explanation for the high difference between last year and this but it's due this week and what with everything else haven't got round to it. The whole insurance market is a massive con anyway with insurance being a bigger gamble than the 2.30 at Kempton Park.

I'll probably just pay up.