20-minute cut-off before Proms

[BudgieJane]

As for RW. The totally unnecessary season ticket holders priority arrangement for Prom 4 was something he appeared to be happy to proclaim some responsibility for in advance of the concert (objections were raised with him regarding this issue when he did one of his walk-abouts down the day queue, though not by me). Having decided to do away with the fountain for the season, it apparently failed to dawn on him that the area freed up would largely compensate for the area lost to the orchestras. So it's not just your grasp of simple arithmetic which seems to be lacking. When it came to it all who wanted to Prom in the Arena for The Gothic got in with some space to spare. It's just that the front rail ended up as exclusive season ticket territory, to the dismay of some of the early Day Ticket queuers, (I was happy standing on the bell of the clarinet).

That was easy to remedy, if only someone had the guts to do it. Lay some white tape to delineate some area for day-queue ticket holders only on the right of the Arena FOR THAT DAY ONLY, say two or three rows deep; allow season-ticket holders to the left and anywhere outside that box. A ten-minutes-at-most job, and people are kept happy.

PT, somehow, in previous years, it has been found possible to coordinate the entry of both Day Queue ticket purchasers and season ticket holders without the 20 minute cut-off. Communication between the staff on the respective doors should now be far simpler and immediate to achieve. I am not a season ticket holder but I have every sympathy with those who have paid up in advance and find the new restriction somewhat onerous. I wonder what it is that drives you to this role of apologist for the RAH and RW? As a service provider, the RAH management is failing in its customer care regarding season ticket holders, in my view.

I have a feeling this is to do with the fire regulations: the Arena has a maximum capacity, and if it is not filled by (in this year's case) 20 minutes before start-time then the Hall will try to fill it with day-queue people. Season-ticket holders arriving "late" screw up their calculations.

[BudgieJane]

By international standards, the whole festival is heavily subsidized; that level of government funding in the US would be unheard of. And "simple arithmetic" tells me that someone who's seen every last one of the Proms two years running (from the front row more often than not) is getting the steal of the century. Believe it or not, I felt so guilty about that I gave a thought to paying a license fee just on the principle of the thing.

I like that idea. I can just imagine the TV licensing people wondering why their computer system has crashed, because a non-resident has voluntarily paid a TV licence fee on a property where one is already in force!

I'm sure you remember my saying at the start of the season that I've been to a lot of concerts over the past year, and my total expenditure on tickets has been £210. That was for 1 season ticket, and 1 seat at "the Bartered Bride". Every other concert I went to was free, because it was a BBC concert (at Maida Vale, or the BBC singers near Hyde Park Corner, etc.). I then stated that, in my not-so-humble opinion, the licence fee is the best value in the world, considering what you get for the money.

Don't forget all those German and Swedish non-UK-resident people with season tickets for the Proms, who are getting the same good deal as you are. The best thing to do is enjoy it, and tell all the folks back home what a wonderfully welcoming bunch of people we Promenaders are.:cool2:

If I were you, I'd spend the money on more of that expensive wine you've been buying, and let me help you drink it.

[PhilipT]

PT, somehow, in previous years, it has been found possible to coordinate the entry of both Day Queue ticket purchasers and season ticket holders without the 20 minute cut-off.

Bryn, I am afraid that your comment betrays ignorance of what is going on.

The Day and Season Ticket queues have always been admitted to the Hall simultaneously (except on the rarest of occasions such as the Gothic this year, and one notorious NYO concert when the Stewards .. umm .. got it wrong). In recent years the system has been improved by (a) pre-selling tickets to the first 150 or so of the Day queue so they're not held up on entry; and (b) holding the queues in the corridor and then releasing them into the Arena simultaneously. What has not changed is the system for holding up the Day queue at some point to leave room for Season Ticket holders who have not yet arrived. If, say, the capacity of the Arena is 900 and 550 Season Tickets have been sold, then only 350 Arena Day people can be admitted initially, and at that point the Day queue will be held up. The Season Ticket holders are counted on entry, and at the cut-off time as many more people can be admitted via the Day queue as there are Season Ticket holders who have not yet entered.

The system has not changed this year, not in any way. All that has changed is that the cut-off time has been moved from 10 minutes before the scheduled start of the concert to 20 minutes before.

[Bryn]

The system has not changed this year, not in any way [except the very way with which this thread treats :doh:]. All that has changed is that the cut-off time has been moved from 10 minutes before the scheduled start of the concert to 20 minutes before.

It's that crucial 10 minutes which was the bone of contention giving rise to this thread.

[cavatina]

It's that crucial 10 minutes which was the bone of contention giving rise to this thread.

Realistically speaking, how many people are going to find ten minutes to be a dealbreaker? On the few nights the concerts are sold out? If ten minutes make the difference, make arrangements to get off work ten minutes early.

[PhilipT]

It's that crucial 10 minutes which was the bone of contention giving rise to this thread.

Yes, but my point (in response to your claim " .. coordinate the entry of both Day Queue ticket purchasers and season ticket holders without the 20 minute cut-off") was to show that there has always been a cut-off. I have already argued in an earlier post that 10 minutes wasn't always long enough. Just off the top of my head, I wonder how many Arena Day people were admitted to last year's Jamie Cullum Prom after the 10-minute cut-off. I went to the first concert that evening, and I walked past a really long (and growing) Day queue on my way home, and I'm sure many other Season Ticket people than me also decided to give it a miss. In the extreme case (no Season Ticket holders at all, which I know was not the case that evening) they'd have to sell over 1 ticket a second and then get the tail of the queue into the Arena. See it now?

[Lee McLernon]

Just to mention, even with the 20 minute rule applied on Friday (I arrived at 1841 thanks to an idiot taxi driver who drove into some road works which he should have know about), the day queue exceeded the remaining capacity of the arena but it was after 1900 by the time they had finished admitting people. I had joined the day queue by the entrance to Beit Hall but only made it as far as "Little Albert" when capacity was reached.

[amac4165]

Nice post, Mr. T.

Another point nobody seems to be considering in all this is the fact that we sainted, holier-than-thou Elite Arena Season Prommers are only paying five-pounds-or-less per concert. Exactly how much privilege and special treatment do you feel entitled to, anyway? Reality check: our experience is subsidised by the license fee, and when you think of it, we're all on the equivalent of musical welfare. If we put ourselves in perspective in the overall scheme of things, it doesn't make sense to expect RAH to bend over backwards for us for any reason.

We have paid money to purchase a ticket at a price offered - it reasonable to expect to get what we paid for ! Our places are double sold in any case when we don't turn up - season tickets seem to be a very good way of getting one for the price of two.

Most of us are licence payers too and so subsidising ourselves in any case; the expensive seats are also subsidising us too ! Start the "accounting" and costing out services you are on very thin ice ! Masses of output of the BBC is cross subsidised - how many broadcasters would incur the costs of R3 ? for a such small share of audience. My guess would be that the proms are seen as an integral part of BBC public service remit and are inextricably bound up with R3.

The most annoying thing is quite clearly the changes (missing fountain etc) are clearly cost saving messages just as the bar prices are revenue generating! But nobody seems to want to admit this - the fountain loss does not gain very much as the platform is far bigger these days but it does take effort and cost to install/remove it. Anyone putting forward that opinion probably hasn't any figures to hand or hasn't spent much time in the arena !

The length of the season queue when the doors open should surely be proportional to the number of people presenting themselves after the main queue has gone in ! All that happened in the past was a steward on the season door radioed round the numbers to the day door as they came in. This takes time and people and therefore costs !

The big change is not really the 20 mins it is that you are sent round to the day queue - regardless - and not depending on whether the queue is likely to exceed capacity !

[vinteuil]

the changes (missing fountain etc) .... - the fountain loss .... !

I never understood what the point of the fountain was - can someone enlighten me?

If it has gorn - and there is therefore more space for pipul - then that's surely a Good Thing???

[cavatina]

I never understood what the point of the fountain was - can someone enlighten me?

The point of the fountain was to 1) provide seating for disabled prommers who can't stand for an entire concert, and 2) provide fun for people who like to float silly inflatable animals in it. People complaining now are doing so largely because they see it as an affront to "tradition" or because they prefer to sit down and don't like the view from the sides.

If it has gorn - and there is therefore more space for pipul - then that's surely a Good Thing???

You'd think. But they also put an enormous Proms logo on the floor--"the branding"--which many seem to find a gross affront to tradition and everything good and holy about the Proms and further proof that RW is the spawn of Satan, etc. Personally, I thought it was a little dodgy that now people can snap photos of themselves sitting on Henry Wood's face, but maybe that's just me.