Scelsi, Cage and Cardew

[Chris Newman]

Will someone (he chooses to ignore me !) tell this sad little idiot to "go away" ?

MrGG,

I was about to suggest the same but you beat me to it.

This is the first time I can recall Simon commenting on music and it has to be negative and snide. He comes on here with a fixed ideology, pooh-poohing left, right and centre determined to wind people up. I can see why as we get older we become less tolerant of youth today. He is so childish.

[Simon]

Just ignore ignoramuses is the best advise here MrGongGong

I think you mean "advice".

But do tell me if I'm in error: just point me towards one of Cardew's glorious feats of musical crafstmanship and I'll be an instant convert.

[french frank]

Wonderful stuff indeed! Schubert watch out, cos here comes Cornelius, snapping at your heels with his irresistible melodies and glorious harmonies...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3XD3AIQj1p4

What a hoot!

Simon

I've excluded you from this board for making unhelpful and disruptive comments. If you want to comment on any aspect of contemporary music, including any subjects being discussed here, please do so on Platform 3 in future.

[Bryn]

Well let's pretend (and it can only be a pretence) that this Simple Simon genuinely desires guidance re. issues of melody, harmony and craft in Cardew's work. Since he has linked to a performance (essentially a workshop performance) of Paragraph 7 of The Great Learning, let's look at that. Harmonically the process is to gradually move from an essentially random complex cluster. Each performer chooses his or her own first pitch at which to sing the first eight breath-long renditions of the word "If". Then each listens to the other singers and picks a pitch one of the others is using in order to sing the words "the root" five times, each held for one full breath. So the performers proceed, with a consequent coalescing towards a less and less complex cluster and more or less slowly towards unison. This process is a reflection on the Confucian text set. As to melody, such would only be evident over a very extended period. In slip-shod performance, such as that given by a few of the performers at the Union Chapel, Islington in the summer of 2000, failure to observe the score might lead to melismata, but such would be the sort of erroneous performance practice to be expected of, say, a Simple Simon. The craft lies as much in the social domain as the musical. The performers are encouraged to develop their listening and intonation with respect to their fellow performers. Remember, the work is aimed at untrained and well as trained musicians. The Ezra Pound translation set reads somewhat differently to Cardew's own, given in the introduction to the score. Cardew referred to that he offered as the "content". It reads, "It cannot be, when the root is neglected, that what should spring from it will be well ordered. It never has been the case that what was of great importance has been slightly cared for, and, at the same time, that what was of slight importance, has been greatly cared for." It might be said that the quality of care given to listening to and reproducing pitches chosen from what is heard in performance of this work is what determines the quality of the emerging harmonic order.


Simples!

[Schrödinger's Cat]

Yet again Hear & Now on the iplayer is at the ludicrously low bitrate of 56Kbps. What is the point and why can't the iplayer team sort themselves out? I'll email Philip Tagney again as he got last week's prog upgraded to 320kbps before it disappeared.

[Schrödinger's Cat]

I've emailed Philip Tagney. I haven't tried complaining directly to the iplayer team - it sounds pretty complicated from what Bryn posted so is it worth it?

Edit: just complained via the iplayer site.

[Bryn]

Not so much complicated and convoluted, S's C. You have to enter so much essentially irrelevant information before you get to alert them to the actual problem. Perhaps they should consider introducing a system where frequent users could short cut to the crux of the issue. Anyway, if you want last night's H&N at 320kbps AAC-LC, a PM to me should do the job in the short term.

[John Skelton]

Thank you, Bryn. That's very interesting and very beautifully described. I didn't have the opportunity to listen to last night's Hear & Now, so hope the iPlayer situation is improved.

[Roehre]

Thank you, Bryn. That's very interesting and very beautifully described.

wholeheartedly seconded , it is a simple as that

[MrGongGong]

Great stuff indeed