CE Choir of Gonville and Caius College, Cambridge 14th Dec 2011

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    #16
    Those texts from the all-night Vigil are perfectly appropriate for Advent.

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      #17
      Originally posted by Gabriel Jackson View Post
      Those texts from the all-night Vigil are perfectly appropriate for Advent.
      Appropriate is not the relevant criterion. They are used for the Vigil of Sundays throughout the year, and are so not specific to Advent (which is how I read the blurb for the programme).

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        #18
        Originally posted by DracoM View Post
        Because, as Russian Orthodox clergy once opined, this is religious music and thus applause breaks the concentration.

        Actually I have many times felt listening to 'religious' music that it is so well done that someone ought to applaud, BUT oddly, the fact that I am cheering inside and no-one else is intensifies the sense of involvement. And a good number of those pieces last night were so short that it seemed a bit inappropriate.
        OK. I see the point, but as a concert isn't a service one arguably hears the music in a different way and it is serving a different purpose. Someone close to me kept applauding very prematurely last night, though.

        Originally posted by DracoM View Post
        GJ, it does seem that every time the BBC Singers come on R3, you seem to think they are wonderful. Or am I missing something?
        The BBC Singers broadcast frequently with no comment from me. But, yes, I do think they are wonderful. Is that so very odd?

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          #19
          Originally posted by DracoM View Post
          There should not have been any applause IMO.
          And the audience standing?

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            #20
            Perhaps it was the awfulness of the day up here, or my mood or something, but I found this a puzzling service, despite the fact that it followed along traditional lines in all respects.

            Part concert, part PR promo for the Woodard Schools, part lusty hymn singing, all sandwiched round the [ for me ] rather nondescript RVW canticles, a very decent and thoroughly workmanlike singing of a Bach motet, and some of the oddest response presentation I have heard for some time.

            The Webber responses and psalm settings were almost wilfully difficult and even weird to my ears over some clever but discreet organ. Nevertheless, a real challenge to any choir. And yes, we did from time to time get wobbly sops - no Latvian / Estonian austerity here. The sops were prominent, but in fact the basses were for me the pick of the bunch

            Might have been a tricky acoustic for the engineers - high ceiling, virtually one long stone barn, ranks of pews facing each other west to east.




            BTW, the BBC's billing of this CE was not helpful, since it was only clear from the CA announcement from Louise Fryer and not from the actual schedule that the Worksop College Choir would be participating. On the last day of their term too, apparently after their mates had already set off for home........but I noted the Tim Uglow connection

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              #21
              I agree about the oddity of the Webber settings.

              A different sound from usual CE with 70+ singers.

              I think this is the first time that I have ever heard an organ accompaniment in the Collects.

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                #22
                Interested in the lack of response to the actual broadcast as opposed to issues round it? Timing? Bill of fare on offer? Too busy?

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                  #23
                  I thought the choir did well and should be congratulated - the anthem was particularly well performed, in my view.

                  But it was indeed a shame about the female vibrato, which generally spoils church music, as opposed of course to certain operatic roles where it's a given. Horses for courses, and these weren't.

                  The least said about the gimmicks of the "Responses" the better, from a musical and devotional point of view. However, that anyone whould have the crass brass face to programme their own works for a broadcast that they are directing is beyond me. I was brought up to consider such self-promotion to be in bad taste and not really the done thing.

                  Well done - technically -for the voluntary - though I can't imagine why anyone would bother with what must be one of RVW's least appealing works.

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                    #24
                    Hi Simon,

                    Good to hear from you again.

                    May I agree with you wholeheartedly about:

                    the anthem was particularly well performed, in my view.
                    But it was indeed a shame about the female vibrato,
                    though I can't imagine why anyone would bother with what must be one of RVW's least appealing works.
                    ...but disagree slightly about:

                    However, that anyone whould have the crass brass face to programme their own works for a broadcast that they are directing is beyond me. I was brought up to consider such self-promotion to be in bad taste and not really the done thing.
                    It is not unknown for DOMs to slide one of their own pieces into CE, and let's face it, why not? Maybe the responses were not to everyone's liking, but they had a certain originality. And let us not forget in earlier times, it was a DUTY of cathedral and Chapels Royal post-holders (from before Byrd to SS Wesley and beyond) to write music.

                    Given the experimentation currently going on with DoM appointments (i.e. not all dyed in the wool organists) why not try appointing a composer or two? It would certainly liven up the good old Anglican music scene.

                    Happy Christmas!

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                      #25
                      Hi ardcarp. Thanks - yes it's nice to be back. I've had a very trying time away and I suppose I may be a bit less tactful than usual till I get some rest.

                      I know that in earlier times cathedral organists composed - but not all of them. Only the ones that could make some sort of a job of it. These days, it seems that everyone with a cassock connected with cathedral music thinks they are Byrd reincarnated.

                      But I'm with you on the "originality" of the responses. I expect that if my neighbour, who is a farmer, tried to write some, they would be original too...

                      Happy Christmas to you too, and best wishes from all of us here.

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                        #26
                        I actually liked the psalm chant AND the Responses. It's not that I want to hear them again - rather that the new is always as welcome as the old.

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                          #27
                          Originally posted by ardcarp View Post
                          Given the experimentation currently going on with DoM appointments (i.e. not all dyed in the wool organists) why not try appointing a composer or two? It would certainly liven up the good old Anglican music scene.

                          Happy Christmas!
                          Good point, ardcarp. I've never understood why the DoM should necessarily be a major concert organist. I attend a smattering of Eucharists and Evensongs during the year, and I've never seen any of the DoMs playing the organ, not that I recall at least.

                          And a Happy Christmas to you and everyone else on the board!

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                            #28
                            Originally posted by ardcarp View Post
                            Given the experimentation currently going on with DoM appointments (i.e. not all dyed in the wool organists) why not try appointing a composer or two? It would certainly liven up the good old Anglican music scene.
                            ardcarp

                            Yes, if he/she has has proven ability of training a choir of boys and men ( at least while they still exist.)

                            We have already had Malcolm Archer who has composed some quite decent stuff for choirs and is a fine choir trainer; and Philip Moore, in my opinion a superb composer but not such a great choir trainer.

                            Just how much experimentation has happened recently anyway? Three singers appointed: one to St Paul's ( no previous experience of training a cathedral choir but reckoned he could pick it up as he went along ( his own words ) - the jury is probably still out on this; one at Norwich ( recently departed with no great achievements ); and Aric Prentice at Lincoln who was primarily appointed as Director of Music at the cathedral school. Lincoln choir/s have not particularly set the world on fire under his direction.

                            The thing to do, surely, is to try to find the outstanding choir trainers from whatever sources and persuade them to take on the job. I suppose they could probably get some instruction as regards the Church's year and pick up things like producing a music list for the services as they go along with help from the Precentors etc.

                            VCC.

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                              #29
                              Magnificat. There have been some disastrously bad 'organist' choir trainers. I hate to name them, but we probably know who they are/were. David Willcocks (one of the outstanding ones, of course) is nevertheless firmly in favour of appointing organists to run the choir. It has been up to now de rigeur, and there have always been spectacular successes, John Scott, Malcolm Archer, St Barry (no mean tickler of the ivories even though he claimed (boasted?) never to have passed an exam in his life)...to name but a few recent ones. There is no reason in the world why some director of a successful adult pro or semi-pro choir should have the faintest notion of what it takes to run a boys'/girls' choir...but he/she might turn out to be very good at it, as might some random organist. It's late; I'm rambling: I'll shut up.

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                                #30
                                Interesting question adcarp. So, yes, there have been bad organist choir trainers, as well as spectacular successes. One question regarding training a M&B choir - have there been any spectacular successes among non-organists? From the back row perspective, I have always maintained that the secret to a successful conductor is dictated by a combination of the ability to project one's intent, experience, taste and common sense. In theory, based on those qualities, they could arise from anywhere.
                                Last edited by Triforium; 22-12-11, 16:38. Reason: left out a word

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