Originally Posted by amateur51
Horse's embouchure, surely Caliban?
Who are you calling a horse's embouchure??!?!
You come outside and say that!!!!
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Who are you calling a horse's embouchure??!?!
You come outside and say that!!!!
"The isle is full of noises... Sounds, and sweet airs, that give delight and hurt not"
The Tempest, Act III scene 2 ll 148-9
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Excellent insights Waldhorn!
There's a famous example of pitch mismatch in Pretre's original recording in Paris of the Poulenc Organ Concerto, where the violins are sharp against the organ. Andrew Rose recently remastered it for a Pristine download using pitch-correction software ("Capstan") and very wonderful the 1961 recording now sounds on its first digital release.
I remain very fond of the old Reader's Digest issues, latterly on excellent-sounding Chesky CDs, of Earl Wild and Jascha Horenstein with the RPO doing the Rachmaninov Concertos, including a fabulous high-speed and high-drama Paganini Rhapsody. The production/engineering team was the Gerhardt/Wilkinson one, so...
Any involvement, Mr. Waldhorn?It's not a simple question of the piano being out of tune 'with itself'... I was playing on that recording in the old ( and much missed) Kingsway Halll, and remember it well.
The piano, if you listen closely, is tuned to EXACTLY A=440 hz ( those were the days) but during the early 1970s there was a tendency for the LSO's overall pitch to 'creep up' higher than that, despite the best efforts of the superlative 1st oboe, Roger Lord.
So, for much of the time, some of the woodwind ( not the oboes!) and strings are playing at about A=441hz .
I was trying to 'stay with' Roger Lord, but now, 40-odd years later, my horn solos with the orchestra do sound a tad flat,but, dare I say it,quite well in tune with the piano in those few moments when the music turns into a 'piano/ horn' duet. ...
Full Member
"Quote:
Any involvement, Mr. Waldhorn?Unquote"
No, sorry, no involvement there... although I was very active as a freelance player in London during the 1970s-1990s, the RPO and the BBCSO were the only two orchestras that never invited me to play with them.
A friendly 'mole' in both those orchestras found out - and reported to me - that those orchestras considered my 'playing style' to be 'too eccentric'...
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Is this a different performance to this one, Jayne? http://www.emiclassics.com/grocrelea....php?rid=20667
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The more I look into Pristine's claim about a first re-release, the more I'm beginning to wonder if there hasn't been some historical confusion here.
You see, on the EMI GROC the orchestra is listed as the Orchestre de la Societe des Concerts du Conservatoire - latterly the Orchestre de Paris. On the Pristine download (and on the original LPs - also I now find on a 1987 CD release...!) the listing is the French National Radio & TV Orchestra - latterly the French National Orchestra. But the organist is Durufle on the organ of the Church of Saint-Etienne on both... and they are both dated 1961! Shame I can't find an authoritative discography for Pretre.
Two recordings in the same year with 2 different orchestras? Or an admin mishap somewhere in the intervening 50 years?
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I don't think this was (or is) unique to the LSO. A real worry for any conductor, because of pitch, is the Beethoven Emperor Concerto. You may have spent ages ensuring the tuning is right for the first three chords, but after the pianos cadenzas, it rests for nearly 100 bars as the orchestra plays the march. During this, the pitch of the strings and woodwind rises slightly, so that when the piano enters again with a full E-flat chord, it will actually seem flat. You have to encourage the woodwind to play flat over the last few bars if you want to avoid the piano sounding flat and dull. Very dangerous and difficult!It's not a simple question of the piano being out of tune 'with itself'... I was playing on that recording in the old ( and much missed) Kingsway Halll, and remember it well.
The piano, if you listen closely, is tuned to EXACTLY A=440 hz ( those were the days) but during the early 1970s there was a tendency for the LSO's overall pitch to 'creep up' higher than that, despite the best efforts of the superlative 1st oboe, Roger Lord.
So, for much of the time, some of the woodwind ( not the oboes!) and strings are playing at about A=441hz .
I was trying to 'stay with' Roger Lord, but now, 40-odd years later, my horn solos with the orchestra do sound a tad flat,
The key doesn't help - strings especially are not too comfortable in flat keys and often drift towards a sharper one.
Last edited by Pabmusic; 06-03-12 at 11:10.
Full Member
"Quote:
Any involvement, Mr. Waldhorn?Unquote"
No, sorry, no involvement there... although I was very active as a freelance player in London during the 1970s-1990s, the RPO and the BBCSO were the only two orchestras that never invited me to play with them.
A friendly 'mole' in both those orchestras found out - and reported to me - that those orchestras considered my 'playing style' to be 'too eccentric'...
How very dare they.
Full Member
that's interesting, I never knew that
not sure I understand why they would be more likely to drift away from D flat major than C sharp major (for example)
Full Member
because they aren't the same key maybe ?
I'm forever disabusing students of these things ...............
I'm not a string player but the ergonomics and tuning of string instruments mean that players are more comfortable in "sharp" keys , try giving them a whole tone scale to play and see the sweat
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I'm still not clear of the reason though
are they less comfortable in C major than B sharp major ?
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