Jazz Criticism…a criticism…

[aka Calum Da Jazbo]

point well made byas'd


... i acquired my critical language from Downbeat in the very late fifties and through the mid sixties ... course it was war in them days ... new thing was worse than the Chinese music for bop .... Coleman Coltrane Harriott really pulled the jazz world apart ... well at least in teh melody Maker

[Ian Thumwood]

Byas

I had forgotten about this magazine and didn't realise that it was still going as so many magazines have gone to the wall since the days of the internet. Actually, I have always felt that there was a degree of amateurism with this magazine and effectively stopped buying it as, like Bruce, found that "Wire" offered a better coverage of the kind of jazz I was into at the time.

"Jazz Journal" offered a lot of debate, largely in favour of jazz from the period 1930-1965 and seemed suspicious of anything contemporary. I can remember the fuss in this magazine when Loose Tubes emerged on the scene. The CD reviews could be outspoken but it seemed to me that this was more often the case when they opposed anything that was remotely contemporary albthough I think there was one reviewer called Simon Adams who always wrote about the latest ECM releases which was what I was in to during the 1980's. I've not seen the magazine for over twenty years and the narrow-mindedness of some of the articles by the likes of Steve Voce put me off. Personally, I prefer to read a magazine that covers all aspects and eras of jazz favourably - I don't like it where the journalism is partisan to one particulat style which was was I jacked in "Jazzwise " in the mid-2000's (as well as for Stuart Nicholson's increasingly tiresome writing as he seemed to keen to write about George Bush as anything about music.) I did enjoy "Jazz Hot" when it was around as the French was easy enough for me to understand (helped by simple Q&A interviews) and they dealt with all styles of music.

[Serial_Apologist]

I did enjoy "Jazz Hot" when it was around as the French was easy enough for me to understand (helped by simple Q&A interviews) and they dealt with all styles of music.

Jazz Hot: Pourquoi existez vous?
Ian Thumwood - Pour le jazz, naturellement!

[Byas'd Opinion]

I used to read Jazz Review, which was edited by Richard Cook, but shortly after Cook's death it merged with Jazz Journal (which I think was having problems of its own). I must admit I much prefer the old Jazz Review to the merged magazine: to me it had a much better balance between covering the contemporary scene and examining jazz from the past.

I used to read the Wire which was very good for a while but moved away from being a jazz magazine to one which, on the rare occasions I glance through it nowadays, seems to be about the experimental end of electronica and dance music (with a nod to avant-garde jazz and free improv every now and again).

[Serial_Apologist]

I used to read the Wire which was very good for a while but moved away from being a jazz magazine to one which, on the rare occasions I glance through it nowadays, seems to be about the experimental end of electronica and dance music (with a nod to avant-garde jazz and free improv every now and again).

That is largely correct, and has been the case for a good decade now - and it's b***dy expensive too. From time to time good articles on particular personalities in jazz do get aired in The Wire, and for that reason I usually peruse the latest edition from the shelf before deciding on buying. That's OK, as long as the shopkeepers don't think you're just paging through top shelf material!

[Ian Thumwood]

Anyone remember the JazzFM magazine that came out around 1990? I used to get this when it first came out and quite enjoyed it. I can also remember buying a really obscure Irish magazine at Mole Jazz once as it had an interview with Bill Frisell in it. There was an editorial regarding an album by Brazilian percussionist Nana Vasconcelos which was shocking in the extent of the racist tone which would have been more typical of something produced in 1930's. Amazingly poor.

The problem with a lot of British and European jazz magazines is that they are so parochial. I have bought "Downbeat" on a few occasions and have been given copies of other American magazines like "Jazz News" which are more in line with the types of publications you get over here. Downbeat was been a real eye-opener insofar that the journalists are pretty much on the pulse with the music whereas magazines like "jazzwise" are on off-shoot of a muisc-publishing business and their coverage is governed very much by new CD releases or tours. I always felt that "Downbeat" was a magazine which had the respect of musicians whereas something like the "Wire" tried to define who was "hot or not." It was once described to me by a British musician I met on a music course as being run by people who were w****rs who made life even more difficult for professional musicians. This ties in with my comment about possible legal action by critics and the care needed to comment reasonably and without prejudicing someone's career. In contrast, the questions in "Downbeat" that are posed to the musicians are intriguing and the debate is far wider than the Marsalis v New jazz that seems to pre-occupy "Jazzwise." I don't know whether this magazine has changed much since I last read it, but it did seem much more informed that UK magazines and less inclined to over-praise the modish. I always felt that it was a bit like "Jazz Hot" insofar that it had a history and place in the culture of the music that it looked to maintain and therefore tended to have a closer connection to the music as opposed to the "product." Difficult to find anything in "Jazzwise" that isn't plugging something!


Sometines both "JJI" and "Wire" had an axe to grind and probably the reviews were not written without a great deal of care. "JJI" always seemed to cater for the Trevor Cooper's of this world (and probably his father too!!) and did champion some of the more obscure Be-bop / mainstream players. However, I think this policy left if without a younger readership and was ultimately a bit short-sighted. Steve Voce's editorial also seemed to disappear off on funny tangents. I must admit that come of the record reviews in "Wire" did not even discuss the music on the record but would make reference to other musicians / influences so as to leave you with little idea what the music was actually like. I must admit, although I enjoyed it at the time, I wouldn't like that kind of journalism nowadays. I would love to dig some of the old copies out one day and see just how accurate the "Wire" was at predicting what the better albums were. Seem to recall that the "Top Twenty" albums of the 80's included Miles' "You're under arrest" which now sound pretty dated to say the least! With contemporary magazines like "Jazzwise", there is the same problem with looking at the music from a UK perspective and a tendency to over-praise bands like EST. I haven't read this magazine for ages and don't know if it has changed or whether is still looks to the next big sea-change in the music.

[Serial_Apologist]

Anyone remember the JazzFM magazine that came out around 1990? I used to get this when it first came out and quite enjoyed it. I can also remember buying a really obscure Irish magazine at Mole Jazz once as it had an interview with Bill Frisell in it. There was an editorial regarding an album by Brazilian percussionist Nana Vasconcelos which was shocking in the extent of the racist tone which would have been more typical of something produced in 1930's. Amazingly poor.

The problem with a lot of British and European jazz magazines is that they are so parochial. I have bought "Downbeat" on a few occasions and have been given copies of other American magazines like "Jazz News" which are more in line with the types of publications you get over here. Downbeat was been a real eye-opener insofar that the journalists are pretty much on the pulse with the music whereas magazines like "jazzwise" are on off-shoot of a muisc-publishing business and their coverage is governed very much by new CD releases or tours. I always felt that "Downbeat" was a magazine which had the respect of musicians whereas something like the "Wire" tried to define who was "hot or not." It was once described to me by a British musician I met on a music course as being run by people who were w****rs who made life even more difficult for professional musicians. This ties in with my comment about possible legal action by critics and the care needed to comment reasonably and without prejudicing someone's career. In contrast, the questions in "Downbeat" that are posed to the musicians are intriguing and the debate is far wider than the Marsalis v New jazz that seems to pre-occupy "Jazzwise." I don't know whether this magazine has changed much since I last read it, but it did seem much more informed that UK magazines and less inclined to over-praise the modish. I always felt that it was a bit like "Jazz Hot" insofar that it had a history and place in the culture of the music that it looked to maintain and therefore tended to have a closer connection to the music as opposed to the "product." Difficult to find anything in "Jazzwise" that isn't plugging something!


Sometines both "JJI" and "Wire" had an axe to grind and probably the reviews were not written without a great deal of care. "JJI" always seemed to cater for the Trevor Cooper's of this world (and probably his father too!!) and did champion some of the more obscure Be-bop / mainstream players. However, I think this policy left if without a younger readership and was ultimately a bit short-sighted. Steve Voce's editorial also seemed to disappear off on funny tangents. I must admit that come of the record reviews in "Wire" did not even discuss the music on the record but would make reference to other musicians / influences so as to leave you with little idea what the music was actually like. I must admit, although I enjoyed it at the time, I wouldn't like that kind of journalism nowadays. I would love to dig some of the old copies out one day and see just how accurate the "Wire" was at predicting what the better albums were. Seem to recall that the "Top Twenty" albums of the 80's included Miles' "You're under arrest" which now sound pretty dated to say the least! With contemporary magazines like "Jazzwise", there is the same problem with looking at the music from a UK perspective and a tendency to over-praise bands like EST. I haven't read this magazine for ages and don't know if it has changed or whether is still looks to the next big sea-change in the music.

Ian, if you're ever up this way with time to spare, I have all the Wires while it was still mainly covering jazz and other periodicals from before and since.

S-A

[BLUESNIK'S REVOX]

ALYN S.."BN, I hope you would exempt Jazz Library from this. The programme aims to be critical but enthusiastic about the subjects' music. Furthermore, I suspect you might not be a regular reader of the Times..."

Alyn, absolutely. Your Library progs are ones I constantly go back to, full of stimulus and insight, even when I "think" I know the work. As to the Times, Wapping. There is a more general issue here about artistic blandness and hyping the product, and I suspect (often) in John Fordham's case, a realisation that making a living in this music is tough enough, with the CD as a prime marketing device, hence the need to soften critical blows.

I am not advocating mindless criticism for the sake of it. The (very) old Jazz Journal had one - "a semi pro musician so I know what I'm talking about" -sic - who accused Elmo Hope of having ten thumbs and Sonny Rollins of "playing all over the place" - spare us that back bar drivel, but surely some kind of INFORMED crticiam is called from from ... self styled critics?

BN.

I find often myself disagreeing with some of the Cook/Morton judgements (generational?) but at least they give considered reasons for them to be accepted or rejected. It really can't all be "great". As I get still older (Oh no), I realise how much fk/g dross this world produces...and that's just the Guardian commentariat.

[BLUESNIK'S REVOX]

BTW. Kenny Dorham used to review records for Downbeat in the '60s. A way of getting him some much need subsidy. But he was so critical that he was forced to drop it!

BN.

[BLUESNIK'S REVOX]

"Downbeat continued to attract the finest writers. Gold had brought in Don Henahan, who later went on to become first-string classical critic for The New York Times. And Martin Williams had come to the magazine on Nat Hentoff's suggestion in the late fifties. But DeMicheal became the first to lure such prominent working musicians as Marian McPartland and Kenny Dorham to Downbeat as regular record reviewers -at $5 a review.

THAT MUCH!

BN.