The story of jazz - the eighties, nineties and noughties

[Ian Thumwood]

Calum's ppst effectively sums in up. I totally agree with this. There is almost a case for the "ground rules" being established for jazz between 1917 and 1970 and that this effectively produced the canvas upon which the jazz musicians of the last 30 years could experiment.

Picking up on "dominant" styles, I think it is probably correct that there has been no one voice who has really steered jazz in a particularl direction like louis, Bird or Coltrane but there is little need to do this. Any innovations in improvisation are incremental or a new voice may have a persuasive influence over their peers (probably the best example of this is Brad Mehldau who is amazingly influential with the jazz festival I attend each year being full of clone trios) but not offer anything too new. Without doubt, the jazz scene over the last 30 years is more varied, interesting and diverse than at any time in it's history.

I was curious to read Byas'd opinions about each of the decades. For me, the 80's rolled into the 90's and I felt it just showed an increasing degree of maturity with artists like bill Frisell and John Scofield who I was heavily into at the time. This was probably true if many other musicians as well although newer talent seemed to rise thick and fast whether it be Dave Douglas, Chris Potter, Joshua Redman, etc, etc. This process is still continuing thankfully. For me, there was a distinct chance around 1999/2000 as the Nu jazz fad kicked in and there seemed a period when the 21st century would see a flood of piano trios and "Scandi jazz." EST now seem pretty forgetable and I am pleased that much of this really tedious stuff is now far less popular. The "groove-based piano trio was a nightmare scenario and it is great to see the likes of Jason Moran and Vijay Iyer steering this instrument back to a proper path.

Picking up on the Frisell east/ West CD, I alwaus prefered the exceptional "Quartet" which is a curious post-modern take on the kind of jazz performed by Adrian Rollini in the 1920's, No doubt that this is jazz and still the best tecord BF has made under his own name in my opinion.

[Tenor Freak]

The Eighties

• Jazz trendy for a while in the UK. A bit of real crossover with the pop/rock/funk scene. A number of good young British players emerged. Not all lasted the course, but among those who did were Courtney Pine, Andy Sheppard, Tommy Smith, Julian Arguelles and Django Bates
• Saxophones, especially tenor saxophones, rule
• Top notch American players regularly visiting the UK (not just for festivals): I remember seeing Art Pepper, Sun Ra, Archie Shepp, George Coleman, Bobby Watson, Jay McShann, Art Blakey......
• The emergence of a much-hyped neo-conservative school in the US who thought that jazz stopped with Art Blakey. (Wynton Marsalis etc.)
• Some of the best music being made by players who'd come up in the Seventies avant-garde and were now incorporating older styles of jazz in their music without becoming at all backward-looking, such as David Murray and Henry Threadgill

Okay, who's going to be first to argue?

Not much to argue with there, it pretty much chimes with my own memories of jazz in Britain in the 1980s. As you say, there were a lot of British tenor saxophone players emerging, here's a not-at-all comprehensive list in addition to that above:

• Steve Williamson
• Dave O'Higgins
• Tommy Smith
• Iain Ballamy
• Ed Jones

I had a thought the other day when listening to a Tony Kofi CD, that back in the 80s and 90s, all the younger players copied Trane, which sounded so modern then, and sounds vaguely old-fashioned, now. Obviously the better players have moved on from that (Ballamy, Williamson).


A couple of things I would add. Yes, jazz was trendy for about 30 seconds amongst a certain middle-class yuppie (remember that word?) crowd. The music was used to advertise various types of product. I present this gem of commodification from 1986:



(BTW Don't Drink And Jive)

Around that time I used to go to a jazz workshop in Richmond (SW London) where various turtle-necked people would show up. One became the advertising editor of The Wire and boasted about his Selmer Mark VI tenor sax.

I am always saddened slightly when I think of Wynton Marsalis, and what he could have become had he not decided to go the way he went. His album "J-Mood" is brilliant. Still, at least now we have Ambrose Akinmusire.

And for me personally, getting hold of some Blue Note reissues on heavy vinyl with the thick cardboard sleeves was something special. I still play some of them today.

[Ian Thumwood]

Ways wondered if the older bloke in that advert was an actor or a real musician.

For me the 80's / 90's tend to blend in to each other with the only notable downside being the speed with which bands like Loose Tubes and Bass Desires quickly broke up. The big difference seemed to be around 1999 when , all of a sudden, there was a lot of groups who were using sampling or dance club beats.For about 5 years, the press seemed really encouraged by this "Nu Jazz" but never got into it. This was the first time that I ever felt that I was getting old and started to think that earlier jazz was better!! About 2003/4, I had a long discussion with apromoter of a jazz festival in Belgium who told me that she thought that this music had a massive future and looked like presenting a major sea-change in the music as it managed to interest a far younger generation. Funny that it never really managed to establish any lasting impact and much of this stuff has gone by the wayside, the laptops getting ditched, the sampling banished and the over-whelming monotony confined well and truly to the history books. However, i think it did represent a point when the 80's mantra of "Tradition" got booted into touch in a pretty savage fashion with comments like "jazz with a rock attitude" starting to be a badge of honour amongst younger bands. Never a fan and good to see the balance somewhat addressed ten years later.

[Tenor Freak]

The big difference seemed to be around 1999 when , all of a sudden, there was a lot of groups who were using sampling or dance club beats.For about 5 years, the press seemed really encouraged by this "Nu Jazz" but never got into it. This was the first time that I ever felt that I was getting old and started to think that earlier jazz was better!!

There was a lot of that kind of thing going on, and it never seemed very convincing. Having a DJ with turntables just seems to get in the way of the other instruments in a jazz ensemble, and the language of the music has evolved without needing samples.

I do like sampling etc but the context has to be right, and ambient/IDM music seems a much better fit.

[Byas'd Opinion]

Here's some late 80s Tommy Smith for you. Also in the horn section are Colin Steele on trumpet and Phil Bancroft on 2nd tenor, both of whom are well-established on the Scottish jazz scene. The guitarist is Nigel Clark, now one of Carol Kidd's regular accompanists.

[MrGongGong]

Having a DJ with turntables just seems to get in the way of the other instruments in a jazz ensemble, and the language of the music has evolved without needing samples.
.

Hummmm

I'm no jazzer BUT I always thought that the language of jazz is stuffed full of samples and quotations ? I remember hearing Mornington Locket's degree recital in the 1980's where he had found out what particular Schoenberg pieces the external examiner had written about in his Phd and then slipped in fragments of the same pieces into the relentless bebop that he was playing.

[aka Calum Da Jazbo]

sample? quotation? discuss!

[burning dog]

Jazz is 'dead' but so is rock soul etc. Bruce are you happy with that IDM thing (not the music, what it's called)? I like a fair bit of DDM myself

[charles t]

burning dog: Thought you might show up. Just posted ystd'y re: Doubt - Never Pet A Burning Dog....(Best of 2011 thread)


[I][T] If you pet an animal, child, etc., you touch them gently and kindly with your hands
Our dog loves to be petted and tickled behind the ears.

• [I]
informal If two people are petting, they are kissing and touching each other in a sexual way.
See also: heavy petting

SURVEY SAYS:

(to be determined)...

[burning dog]

survey says:

..

a turkey