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I'm afraid card carrying Anglicans do not 'get in free', except for services. But my point (hospitals as well) is that we live in rip-off Britain. Oh, but we manage to spend billions of OUR money on fighting wars in silly places. Would you rather we did that or have free hospital parking? Maybe we won't agree on this one, McGG.
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Of Course hospitals should be free (I've spent enough money and pain on them in the last couple of months to last a lifetime !) and we should stop thinking that we can join in with Team America World Police ............Originally Posted by ardcarp
BUT
The church really is it's own thing and shouldn't have anything to do with the state so as a non-christian its really not my gig. Unlike some of the things the church does this one is harmless, maybe they should have a discount for heterosexuals ?
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What ways would you suggest, then?
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And no doubt about where she has secreted all tgose word-endings!
Host
OK Everyone who visits might be asked not only for a contribution, but also for their email address (voluntary, of course). Then there could be emails sent out giving cathedral news, including the work and mission of the place, and subtly asking if the recipient would be a regular financial supporter of the cathedral. Many of these would fall on stony ground, but I dare say a percentage would strike home, especially if their (free) visit had been a good experience. A tiny example of the psychology of giving might be exemplified by the rather fine organ of which I was once titulaire. A sheet giving its specification was first of all sold. There weren't many takers. Latterly, it was decided to give these out free, but an organ pipe converted to a money box was placed nearby for contributions to an ongoing organ fund. The 'take' was infinitely higherr.
It is interesting that the Anglican Church is the established church, i.e. connected with the state and the monarchy, and yet receives no financial support from it. These great medieval buildings are part of our national heritage and no doubt a great boost to the tourist industry. It seems perfect sense to me that the fabric should be safeguarded by the taxpayer...a much more worthy cause (like free hospital parking) than fighting wars that have little relevance to us.
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No. The Chancellor announced in the Budget that approved alterations to listed buildings - which, unlike repairs and maintenance are currently zero-rated - will be charged at the standard rate of 20% VAT from October. As far as organs are concerned, the rules concerning this tax are complex, and there are various criteria which determine whether a new organ or work on an existing organ is zero-rated or charged at the standard rate. In some cases, churches involved with work on the organ may find it subject to standard-rate VAT from October if the proposal is implemented.
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Yes, the Anglican card I carry is these days rather tattered, but I disagree with ardcarp on both counts - admission charges and taxpayer assistance.
'Owner-occupiers' already bear responsibility for many of our historic buildings, while both NT and EH do their work through voluntary subscription. Cathedrals fall into the same bracket, and must use their assets to raise funds how best they may. If they pitch the charge right, it should not deter the sightseer; further donations can be encouraged ("£60,000 a week" etc); in some places, where the cathedral is the main attraction for visitors and so adds to the local economy, retailers can be urged to donate in response, even if times are hard. Actually, I think the cathedrals (etc) are to be congratulated on keeping the services free!
Tax-payer involvement on the grounds of 'established church' would lead to unwanted pressures. All other beliefs and sects, not to mention all manner of heathens, would feel justifiably aggrieved - it would not be hugely different if the cathedrals were just relics, but their active ministry rules out public funding. The fact that the CofE is also rather out of step with today's zeitgeist , often engaging in internecine squabbles, reduces any claims even further.
Presumably the cathedrals could alleviate their problems by dumping their choirs and organs - just as we could all solve our own worst difficulties by arranging a cardiectomy. Let's hope both they and we find better solutions.
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& not just the modern tourist industry - when they were built they were the tourist industry, as centres of pilgrimage. Pilgrims visiting relics were expected to make a donation, & usually bought badges & other 'souvenirs' that showed they had made the pilgrimage, & were a major source of income for the churches, which competed to obtain prestigious relics that would boost their status & their visitor numbers. The following quote is taken from 'The Medieval Pilgrimage Business', published in Enterprise & Society, published by the OUP -
In this paper, we identify and elaborate on three economic aspects of pilgrimage. First, the pilgrimage journey, ending in a donation to the shrine of destination, may be viewed as one side of an implicit contract involving reciprocal rights and obligations on the part of the pilgrim and the church (below). Second, high and later medieval pilgrimage shrines were a form of franchise business, operating under the umbrella brand of the universal church: the local shrine managers marketed their patron saint and took in large-scale offerings that were recycled, in varying proportions, to the clergy, church building programmes, and the poor (below).3 Finally, ancillary pilgrimage services, such as the provision of accommodation, food and wine, transport, banking, and pilgrimage badges constituted an important economic activity, sometimes involving complex commercial relationships between the private sector and local church authorities (below). (http://es.oxfordjournals.org/content/12/3/601.full)
I did a fair amount of research around this for a dissertation, & there is quite an extensive literature, & it's clear that medieval people also were expected to pay.
Full Member
I think you will find that the loss of 0% VAT rating is already having a huge effect on many organ restoration projects.
Full Member
As someone who is himself looking forward to the planned restoration of the instrument over which I preside, I'd be interested to know of these "many" organ restoration projects of which you speak, as well as the "loss of 0% VAT". The Chancellor's proposed move is a separate issue to the scheme (begun in 2006) which enabled the recovery of VAT under the Listed Places of Worship Grant Scheme, and which ended in March 2011.
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