Prom 41 (12.8.12): Schoenberg – Gurrelieder

[Northender]

To me it is a complete turn off to have to listen to three lengthy choral works in three evenings no matter that they are from different eras. Poor programming .

I feel exactly the same way about three VW symphonies, which is why I shall record the Prom in question and watch it in a more digestible form.

[Flosshilde]

What I heard was wonderful - I'll have to make sure that I can listen to the repeat in about two weeks time (I wonder why the longer than usual wait - concerts are usually repeated the following week?)

[Brassbandmaestro]

I am going to hear this on ipl;ayer and Elgar's Apostles conducted by /sir Mark Elder, has made this work toi have more meaning to what other conductors have and I will listen tom this again and catch up also on iplayer the Berlioz ~Grande Messe des Morts andf Schoenberg's Gurrlieder. All these works makes for some appetising listening, imo.

[rank_and_file]

I have to say I agree with Barbirollians on his poor programming comment, and entirely agree with Nortender’s comment about 3 VW symphonies one after the other!

For the concert I gave up listening in FM with the Optimod compression, and listen via the HD stream. Most certainly my ears were opened - a very much superior listening experience with a frequency range and dynamics close to a CD. At least I have learnt how to listen to R3 Concerts in the future.

Quite enjoyed the performance, which seemed rather under-rehearsed. After he warmed up Simon O’Neill sang very well and was my pick of the soloists. Felt sorry for Wolfgang Schone as the Speaker as many of us have fond memories of Hans Hotter showing how it should be done! (I see he took that role in a 1994 Prom).

Off thread, but EA in post 1 notes Jiri Belohlavek as the conductor, then says it is Sareste. I note that the former is to give up as chief conductor at the end of these Proms. BBC politics?

[EnemyoftheStoat]

Off thread, but EA in post 1 notes Jiri Belohlavek as the conductor, then says it is Sareste. I note that the former is to give up as chief conductor at the end of these Proms. BBC politics?

No, end of contract and JB is taking the the principal conductor post at the Czech Phil.

No political aspect to Saraste's stepping in for this one (or Oramo's for an earlier Prom), purely health reasons.

[ahinton]

Not that straightforward, as this is the part of Gurrelieder which was revised and orchestrated in 1912, well after Strauss had composed and premiered Elektra.

I'm not sure that this is quite the whole story, actually; yes, the orchestration of much of the work was delayed for quite some years and, by the time Schönberg applied himself to it, his ideas and music had already gone through many stages of development which obviously affected it maerially, but it has always seemed to me that even parts of its early stages, as well as Pelleas und Melisande, are strangely premonitory of Strauss's approches to and treament of large orchestral forces in Salome and Elektra (just as, in a quite different but perhaps not so very much less potent sense, Schönberg's Op. 8 orchestral songs seem to be to be uncannily prescient of Strauss's much later Vier Letzte Lieder).

[Resurrection Man]

Third outing for me (excluding NYJO)...same place. The opening bars revealed an amazing degree of detail in the orchestral scoring that i'd never been aware of before in the recordings that I have. The playing of the BBC Symphony Orchestra was for me sublime. They knocked spots off the band from the night before. The tempi and phrasing by the conductor suited my preferences to a T but the soloists. I'll be interested to hear this on iPlayer as at times they were almost inaudible..Waldemar in particular and I felt really short-changed by the truncation of that glorious high note by the soprano against the backdrop of the orchestra about a third of the way into the first half. On my Mattila recording with rattle, she justs holds it so effortlessly, it makes you want to just rejoice in the moment. Sadly lacking for me last night.

Very strange delay in the proceedings, until a 'man who can' wandered onto the stage and adjusted the conductors music stand and then walked off stage again. Strange.

[kuligin]

I am very interested in the differing views expressed above of the various soloists.

I am not a regular prom goer, its a long way to come from Manchester but the chance to here this masterpiece and the Berlioz and the Ferneyhough/ Birtwistle/ Finnisy/Elias proms proved too strong to resist.

I sat in the stalls in zone " O", so slightly behind the soloists and was delighted to hear so much, only parts of Waldemar and Tove disapeared when the orchestra were in full cry. I thought the performance was well paced, beautiful playing and thought all the soloists were fine. I heard Lloyd Jones in the Queen of Spade when he was quite miscast, and so was worried about what he would produce, but he was back in form or in a piece that suited his voice

But where is the best place to sit, I am too antique to stand?

I "heard" the Berlioz from Row 7 of the Circle. It was a very disconnected experience, everything very distant indeed, strangely quiet effects came off best, the second rendition of the Sanctus by Toby Spence with the cymbal clases was magical. I was sorry to hear of his illness and wish him a speedy recovery, it was a very brave part to take on.

[bluestateprommer]

Caught the Gurrelieder Prom again just before the 1st iPlayer deadline passed. Very fine job, although again it's unfortunate that JB had to pull out of this one, as it would have been his 1st time conducting Gurrelieder. J-PS did well with it, but then he's conducted it before, in Toronto, where I believe that Gurrelieder was his last concert as music director there back in 2001. I thought of traveling to Toronto for it, but I didn't, and I regret it now. If memory serves, Ernst Haefliger was the Speaker for those Toronto performances. Likewise here, good work from the soloists and chorus, as well as the BBC SO.

But where is the best place to sit, I am too antique to stand?

I've posted this article before on a past thread, but it's worth reposting. Michael Berkeley addressed this question in The Guardian back in 2004:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2004...era.proms20042

"Under no circumstances should you sit directly opposite the stage (at 12 o'clock if the stage is at six) unless sheltering from Mahler or Bruckner at their most bombastic. This, believe it or not, is where the BBC has most of its hospitality boxes and the music comes at you as though through a telescope held the wrong way round. It is simply too far away.

You need to be quite near the stage, at, say, four or eight o'clock. I would recommend a stalls seat on the aisle of block H1 (my favourites are H8 27 or 28) or its counterpart on the other side of the hall, M1. This is where you will find most of the critics, as well as composers when their work is being premiered."

I've only had a seat at 2 Proms, one near the Arena and another just below the Gallery, so I've certainly not sampled all possible seat sections myself.

[Resurrection Man]

Listening again this afternoon and my opinion is still the same. Beautiful playing by the BBC Symphony Orchestra and super conducting. But those soloists..................aargh...so glad that they were drowned out at times in the live concert. With the radio mix bringing them more forward, Angela Denoke I find dreadful in this role...there are so many other better singers out there..maybe she was ill? Waldemar Simon O'Neil also disappointing but not as much as Denoke.

But that glorious orchestral playing makes up for it

Oh dear...that compression on the wild choral section...optimod? sound mixer ? nothing like the live performance.