Karajanophobia; is there a cure?

[Barbirollians]

By chance I came across his (later) EMI Sibelius 4 and was blown away by it.

I have played that again this afternoon for the first time in quite a while and it really is a magnificent , icy fingers around the heart , performance . Desolate but superbly played and very moving . The NO 5 with which it is coupled on CfP is a delight and makes a wonderful contrast.

[Barbirollians]

I have dug out his two 1970 EMI Bruckner records after hearing the recent Rattle 9th and that pair of the 4th and 7th symphonies are surely twoof his greatest achievements in the recording studio . The Seventh in particular is right at the top of the pile .

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

I have dug out his two 1970 EMI Bruckner records after hearing the recent Rattle 9th and that pair of the 4th and 7th symphonies are surely twoof his greatest achievements in the recording studio . The Seventh in particular is right at the top of the pile .

[umslopogaas]

#25 ardcarp.

Just looked up that quote in Chambers Music Quotations. It was indeed Beecham who said Karajan was a kind of musical Malcolm Sargent (quoted in Atkins and Newman 'Beecham Stories' 1978).

[JohnSkelton]

I wish I could find Richard Osborne's description of Karajan (in his later years) as resembling an ancient Chinese Sage, or an Austrian peasant farmer... It must be somewhere in that magisterial biography...

I take it Richard Osborne numbers Chinese Sages and / or Austrian peasant farmers among his acquaintance ?

Was he important, musically? He was a famous conductor and conducted a lot of concerts and recordings. Pretty much all the music he recorded has been recorded many, many, times over the years by other orchestras with other conductors, so, like, what's the big deal?

I suppose as a sociological phenomenon (the Great Maestro, the apotheosis of Culture Snobbery, a representative on earth of Art above Politics / Universal Language etc.) he's interesting .

[Thomas Roth]

http://www.deutschegrammophon.com/ht...ion/index.html

[gurnemanz]

http://www.deutschegrammophon.com/ht...ion/index.html

At first glance I thought this one was Karajan plays Scargill

[visualnickmos]

At first glance I thought this one was Karajan plays Scargill

..before the incident involving a falling piano, resulting in A flat minor

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Was he important, musically? He was a famous conductor and conducted a lot of concerts and recordings. Pretty much all the music he recorded has been recorded many, many, times over the years by other orchestras with other conductors, so, like, what's the big deal?

I suppose as a sociological phenomenon (the Great Maestro, the apotheosis of Culture Snobbery, a representative on earth of Art above Politics / Universal Language etc.) he's interesting .

I refer my esteemed fellow forumist to #7 above!

You're right: there are aspects of Karajan's public personality and the cult that surrounded him that I find deeply repellent, and in many respects, "he" (the "sociological phenomenon") personifies attitudes towards and about "classical music" that I detest.

But then there's the Music-making, which, again and again in such a wide expanse of the repertoire I find (for me) has a particular strength and "resonance" that few others (in all the "many, many" other recordings) come close to. Away from the recordings, I can question and satirize my admiration for this music-making. But within the first tremolando of the Bruckner Ninth (for example) or the Double Bass lurches that thrust open the Sibelius Fourth, I'm "in there": hooked from the start to the end in ways that can only sound bizarre and pretentious if I try to express what I'm experiencing in words. Yes, the Music does it: the composer and the individual Musicians actually playing the notes are responsible - but it's Karajan who's been able to get this orchestra to make these sounds from those written parts.

That, for me, is "the big deal": and quite sizeable it is, too!

[visualnickmos]

...aspects of Karajan's public personality and the cult that surrounded him that I find deeply repellent, and in many respects, "he" (the "sociological phenomenon") personifies attitudes towards and about "classical music" that I detest.

...the Double Bass lurches that thrust open the Sibelius Fourth, I'm "in there": hooked from the start to the end in ways that can only sound bizarre and pretentious if I try to express what I'm experiencing in words. Yes, the Music does it: the composer and the individual Musicians actually playing the notes are responsible - but it's Karajan who's been able to get this orchestra to make these sounds from those written parts.

Hi ferney-h-g

I am with you on this. But re. the fourth; are you referring to the late-ish EMI or the earlier DG? I'm now intrigued, and shall "contrast and compare" the two later today. However, I don't think my fav (today, at least!) fourth by Maazel will be supplanted!