What qualifies someone to be called a classical composer?

[Lateralthinking1]

It appears that:

Gershwin is but Berlin isn't and Milhaud is more of one than Gershwin

Morricone is but Vangelis isn't, Frankel only might be and Bernstein is more of one than Morricone

Moondog isn't but Messiaen and Thoreau are

De Hartmann is but Gurdjieff isn't

Rodrigo and Villa-Lobos are, Segovia isn't and with Yepes it is debatable

Hutter and Schneider aren't but Varese and Boulez are

Cage is and Zappa might be but Beefheart isn't and Birtwistle and Stockhausen are more so than Cage and Zappa

Why?

[french frank]

Not sure that I would quite agree with all those statements . Nor, indeed that things are so clear-cut that you can say 'this is classical, that isn't'.

This doesn't just apply to classical music either: I'd say it's pretty much the same with jazz.

[cloughie]

Not sure that I would quite agree with all those statements . Nor, indeed that things are so clear-cut that you can say 'this is classical, that isn't'.

This doesn't just apply to classical music either: I'd say it's pretty much the same with jazz.

Who cares? Why is there such obesession with pigeonholing music?

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Who cares? Why is there such obesession with pigeonholing music?

... 'tho' I suspect that Lats shares this view and is merely/really wondering aloud what "qualifies" a composer for inclusion on R3?

In answer to the Thread title:

"Writing Music between c1760 - 1830" works for me (if the "c" is Upper Case).

[Lateralthinking1]

... 'tho' I suspect that Lats shares this view and is merely/really wondering aloud what "qualifies" a composer for inclusion on R3?

Yes I think so. There is also a scale whether we like it or not. I was surprised to see that Berlin was the Composer of the Week. Some would be pleased and others very much against. What will the reaction be when they choose Lennon and McCartney?

Much as I quite like Morricone, he isn't a Bernstein and even Bernstein doesn't seem quite as firmly placed as, say, Copland to me. Some eyebrows were raised when Bernstein became the second most frequently performed American composer by US orchestras whereas Copland's first position attracts little controversy.

Segovia substantially reworked classical pieces and yet there is no suggestion that he is a composer whereas Yepes is often described as a composer although it is doubtful whether he wrote "Romance".

Moondog was as innovative with the use of environmental sound as Messiaen and Thoreau. Kraftwerk were electronically innovative but are not seen as classical like Varese. Milhaud is pretty jazz at times, as is Gershwin, but his inclusion at the Proms wouldn't get people hot under the collar. With Gershwin there, you can sense the mutterings.

I could have included examples of light operetta too. Are Gilbert and Sullivan fortunate to have been British?

[french frank]

I was surprised to see that Berlin was the Composer of the Week.

But that's because CotW is no longer devoted to 'classical composers', not because Berlin is regarded as 'classical'. Charles Mingus was also on CotW.

I think 'pigeon-holing' is a bad image. It suggests that people/subjects fit into a tightly defined box and there are no connecting links with other boxes. In music that's clearly untrue: there are all sorts of cross influences. But I also think that most recognisable genres have a core which distinct. No one is forced to make any kind of intellectual study of music/musicology if they don't want to. If all you want to do is engage with it, wallow in it - that's fine.

[cloughie]

I could have included examples of light operetta too. Are Gilbert and Sullivan fortunate to have been British?

Was Gilbert fortunate to have met Sullivan? If you're asking if Sullivan was classical - yes, but Gilbert & Sullivan?
What is a) Opera, b) Operetta c) a Musical?

Is Elvis Costello a punk rocker or a serious composer, Previn and Bernstein jazz or classical or film - as I say why the need to categorize?

[Boilk]

Kraftwerk were electronically innovative but are not seen as classical like Varese.

I can't think of a single thing that Kraftwerk can take the credit for as innovators. Imitators with mass appeal who kept an eye on the innovators, more like.

And come to think of it, their harmonic palette was decidedly bland for the time.