How was it for you darlings 9 10 11 June OH12!

[Serial_Apologist]

I only got around to hearing this sesh last night, but I do feel handsomefortune's considerable response is deserving of some recognition.

since jez asked for feedback .....to my ears, a promising start with the bristol trio, named 'Dakhlar' (phonetic spelling alert - sorry i don't have time to check listings - now adjusted) .... the opener was apparently from the section where new artists send stuff in to jez......

My wish would be for this programme to present more extended trracks from new recordings to give at least some impression. The track in question basically just presented material - though I do see there's a link to the band's website offering further - snippets? - I intend trialling as soon as time allows

followed by the vijay iyer set... imo a real shame about vijay's ryhthm section - i couldn't hear, wasn't aware of the bass much tbh. the drums seemed to be plodding out the same even stevens regular bish bash on a dull snare ...quite regardless of what the piano and bass were doing. despite vijay's speed, brevity and cunning it became empty, tedious after only a couple of tracks, though track 3 stood out iirc.

I was more disappointed by the thinness of the materials used in the more "experimental" tracks than the underwhelming tone of the bass (poss down to poor mixing) or degree of interplay: typical in this regard the second track's doing a simple Steve Reich cliche to death. This, and the following jazz-rock number, came over as preplanned for the (albeit laboured) effect of the drummer's prominencing to succeed within minimal(ist) requirements, as though through-composed with nothing left to chance.

frankly, i found the stevie wonder 'impro' nauseating, and what was achieved musically was created using pc software, (which IDEALLY should have been mentioned, not that there's anything whatsoever wrong with this method per se....but it might have led to potentially interesting discussion as to the value of spontaneity, error, and real time improvisation v economy and the dexterity of contemporary pc tools WIDELY available)? relevant at a time when apparently the lso are miming to cds, and other strange 'progressions' ensue, sometimes in the name of 'economy' and 'speed' amongst other excuses. all a bit odd, as le genre made much of the 'heaps of musical instruments' bought along for the session, but then completely omitted how instruments were manipulated post production.

instead, the sw analysis was presented as the results of the two musos actually improvising together, and supposedly recorded 'at bbc studios'? (wasn't it it allegedly maidevale)? since the beeb are supposedly touting for new, younger listeners - they surely shouldn't under estimate listeners' ability to decipher the difference between live impro, and less spontaneous efforts, altered and effected on a laptop?

a dull discussion followed, between the two musos, and then le genre and jez pitched in. dizzyingly, the thing no one could apparently 'quite put their finger on' about sw, was that his early work, besides being unique and technically brilliant, still has an urgency, angst, and heaps of soul, in part due to the lyrics being pretty political - sw really means it, but doesn't want to get us down in the dumps with his albums, but aims to unify us instead. (the lyrics are not typical late 70s US mainstream - and perhaps appear positively 'outrageous' by today's comparatively flabby, vacuous mainstream standards) .... i love his early stuff, but by the 80s it all goes pear shaped, as predictably sw cools off, ....rather than still hitting a creative jackpot, taking the risks required. imo sw had 'done it' by the 1980s, ...but it matters not. therefore, arguably, singing sw lyrics and melodies in a crooning, bing crosbyesque style is best done alone in the bath, if at all. even if currently crooning's considered fashionable by some, there are some sentiments which totally resist being on trend..or off.

Yes, there's creativity to be had from digital technology - one only needs to hear Evan Parker's Electroacoustic Ensemble for one example. Here, the looped effects were akin to patina or more like aural grouting; I had the impression of a rushed project in need of pre-thought and preparation. For Cleveland Watkiss and Orphy Robinson, as for others of that generation, conversance with Stevie Wonder was inscribed into the very fibres of their teens. Watkiss has spoken eloquently elsewhere about the influences informing his viewpoint; here he sounded just tired, I suspect...

so, imo NOT a v good prog last week, typically annoying, and for successive weeks on the trot. there's much better jazz, and jazz fusions played on 'late junction'..... to my ears.

Yes but Late Junction is rather like Womad - a bit of this, a bit of that, divorced and re-contextualised.

[handsomefortune]

i had hoped jez Himself might reply serial apologist - that'd be a first eh! (but thanks for being sociable)

ideally, the new jon3 section specifically set aside for homegrown talent might be the extended part of the programme logically. rather than recent US gigs of stuff that's essentially pop fusion, rather than jazz. still, iirc at least jez mentioned something about a 'manchester music festival' to be broadcast soon, in which newly noticed bristol trio 'dakhlar' may feature.

jez hasn't noticed, or doesn't apparently deem worthy of mention, that 'dakhlar' are at least the third uk outfit (featured on his own prog), to feature 'bass melody' as supplied by other instruments, ie not a bass guitar, or upright bass. since the beeb champion shebaka hutchings as its very own 'new generation artist' odd that they then fail to mention (amongst other related hype), that 'sons of kemit' may well have influenced, or perhaps at minimum provide a link between new homegrown trios, quartets etc featured ...it's confused, and confusing imo. where's the long term sense of continuity and overall programme objective?

why only one band featured per week? - when it's pretty obvious that there's much more talent in the whole uk, that might well be featured, and may add a sense of identity, importance to a homegrown jazz scene....? in 2012, if we can do this for sport - why not jazz? bearing in mind there's scotland, ireland and wales ...as well as (not just the south of) england to potentially choose from. jlu sometimes features whole gigs, so it's not as though the 'live' section is TOTALLY ignored exactly, but the odd bits and bobs covered live by the beeb on r3, hardly make up for all other sins.

nothing left to chance.

perhaps suffices to say a metronome would have done just as well. or listeners booting a wet cardboard box every few bars would at least add an element of chance, as well as a new element to radio participation. tbh i couldn't help but wonder what troyka's josh blackmore would have sounded like with vijay and the (invisible) bass player? terrific probably.... instead of creatively 'thin'. or mr sebastian rochford for that matter.... even 'leafcutter' might be preferable, as he could presumably record, mix the bass audibly....which is important. especially where live broadcasts by trios are concerned.

aural grouting

segments of water joined, make ice cubes in bubble wrap presumably! (definitely not a waterfall, or stream meandering through the music)) arguably, if sw was water - he was the pacific ocean - or a hefty waterfall!

mine is not a criticism of the sw proteges themselves, it's just that the supposed 'analysis' was weak, falls between incomplete and rambling, as well as being misrepresented by hosts. at one point one of them is singing a sw phrase live, as part of the interview, and someone just cuts in and interrupts him. is it surprising in these circumstances that guests may appear 'tired'?

Evan Parker's Electroacoustic Ensemble yes, take the hint s-a.

but arguably this confuses my main point about beeb claims ie, when is 'recorded at maidevale, not maidevale'? john peel didn't used to pretend he broadcast from maidevale - if he was at home - so 'economy' is nothing whatsoever to be ashamed of exactly. but merely illustrates the wonders of broadcasting, and contemporary software technologies respectively. (i am posting this from kashmir btw )

Late Junction is rather like Womad - a bit of this, a bit of that, divorced and re-contextualised.

'lj''s fiona talkington and verity sharp, in particular, don't go in for the big pre ramble prior to tracks, as others often do. i am not aware of either forcing superficial contexts and links where there are none either.....minus hype i'm usually much more open to ANY music ..... so the 'divorce' isn't quite as violent and unhinged as the supposedly 'contextualised' broth of jez on 3 hype. thankfully, sometimes people actually sing on 'lj' tracks, and whereas it might be via a nose pipe ... at least it's not beeb friendly creamy crooning, or other ubiquitous yet hideous styles.

arguably, due to the musical stylistic 'range' that 'lj' strives for around the world, i never have to listen to a whole gig of US's latest promo export ..... not everyone is 'deaf as a post' in europe, funnily enough! plus i sometimes doubt that US jazz audiences are ALWAYS that keen on what get dumped off here tbh! but perhaps that's a personal hope - rather than a doubt serial apologist!

[Serial_Apologist]

when is 'recorded at maidevale, not maidevale'?

Must be today's depression(s), sorry, but I can't resist, "When it's Maida Valeable?"

I'll get me brolly and flotilla off.........

[handsomefortune]

very nearly paralleling your 'all bran new buildings in londres' post, on the old r4 'tciy' mb s-a!