Income in Classical Music and Jazz (Britain)

[Panjandrum]

One thing I do know is that if there were an award for the most solipsistic whingers on earth people involved in classical music would win by such a distance that there wouldn't be any point saying who came second. Because classical music people would undoubtedly find a sub-category all their very own to come second to themselves in.

All the internet petitions about orchestras or ensembles in danger of merger or closure (I've signed plenty of them myself; I've even been guilty here of publicising one of them). And never is there the slightest hint that the petitioners see themselves as part of a wider issue: never do they link what they are asking for with a more general anti-cuts movement. Oh dearie me no. Because, of course, they are a special case; classical music is an ineffable, universal, language, and like the art they practice their concerns float high and noble above politics. All this despite the fact that classical music except at the absolute commercial margins or where it's so swanky that the super-rich can be persuaded to stump up is dependent on public subsidy - a public who, by and large, would need paying to listen to the stuff.

You keep telling anyone who however tentatively suggests different that significant alternatives to the present state of social and economic affairs are unsustainable, or you don't see how they could be effected: well, file sharing is here to stay, YouTube is here to stay, and small classical music labels or composers who don't have a media profile like Philip Glass simply don't have the resources to prevent piracy (if that's what you want to call it). So unless they find some way of using piracy as an adjunct to getting a few more people interested in what they do, it's just one of those things in a no-alternative world and tough luck.

Some high horses are being given a mighty good gallop this morning.

[JohnSkelton]

It would appear that the John Skellton/ahinton duologue is back with us on the boards again.

So I, for one, will seek other threads to join in on discussions which do not degenerate into pointless (but point-scoring) arguments.

HS

I shall, as ever, look forward to reading your interesting and informative posts, Hornspieler, wherever on the board they appear.

[JohnSkelton]

Some high horses are being given a mighty good gallop this morning.

At least I don't call myself Panjandrum on an internet message board, Panjandrum. That really takes an inability to see what a prat you look to everyone else on earth.

[Hornspieler]

I shall, as ever, look forward to reading your interesting and informative posts, Hornspieler, wherever on the board they appear.

It was only a little Sunday morning dig, John. Be assured that I also value your contributions to these boards.

HS

[ahinton]

All the internet petitions about orchestras or ensembles in danger of merger or closure (I've signed plenty of them myself; I've even been guilty here of publicising one of them). And never is there the slightest hint that the petitioners see themselves as part of a wider issue: never do they link what they are asking for with a more general anti-cuts movement. Oh dearie me no.

On what grounds do you seek to claim this? HOw can you possibly know? Have you interviewed the majority of petitioners and learnt that the only cuts that they're concerned about are those about which they've just been petitioning?

You keep telling anyone who however tentatively suggests different that significant alternatives to the present state of social and economic affairs are unsustainable, or you don't see how they could be effected: well, file sharing is here to stay, YouTube is here to stay, and small classical music labels or composers who don't have a media profile like Philip Glass simply don't have the resources to prevent piracy (if that's what you want to call it). So unless they find some way of using piracy as an adjunct to getting a few more people interested in what they do, it's just one of those things in a no-alternative world and tough luck.

And tough luck for those who want this kind of thing, because if it gets worse than it is now for composers and performers of contemporary "classical" music, there will gradually be less and les of it on Youtube or anywhere else, because people do need to live in order to produce it in the first place. I don't incidentaly, "keep" telling people that there are no viable alternatives to "the present state of social and economic affairs"; far from it - I just don't happen to see any evidence that any such is about to emerge or that there is much of a public will for one or a trust in one and, in any case, that's not what's being discussed here (except by you, it seems, whose agenda appears to prompt you to use this thread as a vehicle for putting forward your political and economic opinions which are surely better suited to a different thread).

[ahinton]

It would appear that the John Skellton/ahinton duologue is back with us on the boards again.

So I, for one, will seek other threads to join in on discussions which do not degenerate into pointless (but point-scoring) arguments.

No need. I have no points to score and have tried to keep to the subject under discussion rather than open it up to more general issues. Some of what JohnSkelton has written in this thread is beyond argument and he makes valid and vital points, even if I do not agree with some things that he writes, but I simply don't see this particular thread as the best place for him to express some of them. That's all. There's not much duologue; we seem largely to be talking about different things.

[JohnSkelton]

It was only a little Sunday morning dig, John. Be assured that I also value your contributions to these boards.

HS

That's quite alright, HS. I wasn't offended - actually I agree with you (my conversation with AH was rather dragging on in a circular fashion!) Enjoy Sunday .

[ahinton]

It was only a little Sunday morning dig, John. Be assured that I also value your contributions to these boards.

As indeed do I.