Understanding the Origins of the First World War

[aeolium]

This is not prompted by any R3 programme (though I am sure one or two will be along next year) but by this NS article reviewing three books on the war:

http://www.newstatesman.com/2013/09/long-road-oblivion

I'd be interested in any suggestions for books on this event which still seems to me the greatest man-made tragedy in world history and which spawned many other tragedies, including indirectly the Holocaust. I hope in this light that next year's commemorations will not focus on a "justifiable war" but at least spend some time examining how it could have been avoided, and how war in the present age is so rarely a solution to anything as politicians still seem to think but often leads to many new problems.

[Richard Tarleton]

There's a new book which was interestingly reviewed by Max Hastings in the Sunday Times the other day but I'm afraid I have lost the author and title, the review interestingly reflecting how both Hastings and this author had changed their views (in different directions). Perhaps someone can be more help than me!

[pastoralguy]

The Bombing War: Europe 1939-1945 by Richard Overy. £30

[Richard Tarleton]

The Bombing War: Europe 1939-1945 by Richard Overy. £30

Wrong war! Thanks pg

[Belgrove]

The iconoclastic Norman Stone's 'World War I' provides a refreshingly singular perspective on the causes, action (a chapter per year) and aftermath, all in about 170 pages. It is a direct and concise treatment. He ascribes the annexation of Libya by Italy in 1912 as being a key event, which convinced nationalists that they could wrest the Balkan's from Ottoman influence and thereby perpetrated the catastrophe by stirring up the Balkan cauldron. He stresses the importance of logistics for prosecuting the war together with the economics for continuing it. The aftermath (beyond WWII) is especially thought provoking.

Robert K Massie's 'Nicholas & Alexandra' is not about the war per se, but the chapter on the Summer of 1914 is a fascinating account of the slide to war, told through the telegrams circulating between the Kaiser, Tsar, King Edward and Emperor of Austria-Hungary. By then the damage had been done, but it is interesting to see the intimacy of the exchanges and futile attempts to apply the brakes.

[Gordon]

I read this and found it of interest; although it does delve into root causes it does concentrate on the immediate run up to August 1914. It has been described a "revisionist" and so recommends itself.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Thirteen-Days-Diplomacy-Disaster-Countdown/dp/0712668268

The author is Clive Ponting ... that name rings a bell.....

One would have thought libararies are bulging with books about WW1 and its causes?

[Roehre]

Wrong war! Thanks pg

Same war, the part after the interval

[aeolium]

I read this and found it of interest; although it does delve into root causes it does concentrate on the immediate run up to August 1914. It has been described a "revisionist" and so recommends itself.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Thirteen-Days-Diplomacy-Disaster-Countdown/dp/0712668268

The author is Clive Ponting ... that name rings a bell.....

One would have thought libararies are bulging with books about WW1 and its causes?

That work looks interesting, Gordon (though it would also be good to see one going into root causes). Actually most of the books on WW1 in the libraries nearest me are mainly about the conduct of the war, not the origins. I have the A J P Taylor book, but really would like to look at something in greater depth. I'm sure that quite a few will start to appear in the next few months.

[Petrushka]

Haven't read these yet but both are on the list:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Catastrophe-Europe-Goes-War-1914/dp/0007398573/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pd_nS_nC?ie=UTF8&colid=3LQJZZLZSXA7N&coliid=I1269U1CFI5M4A

http://www.amazon.co.uk/The-Sleepwalkers-Europe-Went-1914/dp/0141027827/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_nS_nC?ie=UTF8&colid=3LQJZZLZSXA7N&coliid=I21ARW0I5WR55U

[aeolium]

I've reserved the Clarke book at my local library - thanks. The Max Hastings book was one of those discussed in the article I linked to. Though it does discuss the origins and causes of the war, the majority of the book is apparently devoted to the actual fighting in the first months, and interesting though that is, it's more the causes that I want to explore.

[pastoralguy]

I know this is off topic but can others see the seeds of a future conflict being sown just now?

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

I know this is off topic but can others see the seeds of a future conflict being sown just now?

Oh, yes. And, if we don't learn from History what we can do to avoid it, it's going to make the Wars of the 20th Century look tiny. Cheery thought for a Saturday teatime - I orefer arguing about Mahler, to be frank.

[pastoralguy]

Oh, yes. And, if we don't learn from History what we can do to avoid it, it's going to make the Wars of the 20th Century look tiny. Cheery thought for a Saturday teatime - I orefer arguing about Mahler, to be frank.

Aye, we're all doomed. DOOMED, I tell you...

[Roehre]

I know this is off topic but can others see the seeds of a future conflict being sown just now?

The slumbering conflict which erupted into WW I wouldn't have been a WW IF Britain would have stayed out of it;

more importantly most likely wouldn't have laid the ground for the resentment which were the seeds for Nazi-Germany to arise IF especially revenche-seeking France had declined to simply dictate the humiliating Treaty of Versailles, by which Germany -with no foreign troops within its borders in November 1918- lost all his colonies, lost a substantial part of its European territory, was forced to pay repairs (the last instalment was paid IIRC in 2010 !), and suffered occupation of its industrial heartland (the Ruhr-area) by the French following defaulting on the repairs-payments due to French economic mismanagement - causing the 1923 hyper-inflation in Germany (and elsewhere).

Hence, slumbering conflicts can and IMO inevitably will erupt, but the consequences cannot be assessed because of this kind of now unknown IFs

[Historian]

There is a counter-argument which posits that the Treaty of Versailles, if France really wanted to end the threat of a German invasion, should have been much harsher. In the result, Versailles was sufficiently humiliating to contribute to the Second World War, while failing to dismember Germany as some French politicians wanted. The Treaty of Brest-Litovsk, dictated to Soviet Russia by Germany in 1918, was hardly a model of moderation.

By the way, although I agree with much of you analysis, the only reason that there were no foreign troops within Germany's borders in November 1918, was that the German leadership sued for an armistice, their army having effectively collapsed.