"The Choir" Top Ten

[subcontrabass]

Announced at the end of "The Choir" 16th January: Aled Jones is looking for suggestions for a "Top Ten" list of choirs to be discussed in a programme next month.

Looks like a programme to be avoided.

[Simon]

I don't agree, scb. Whilst I'm of course with you on the impossibility of logically assessing any such league table, I think it may be instructive as to how various minds are working. It might give an insight, too, into how certain choirs or groups are perceived by the wider public. And don't forget, I expect it's not AJ's idea - it seemed to follow on from the latest thing that the Monteverdi "won". I expect he has to do what he's asked.

[Magnificat]

I wouldn't mind seeing suggestions for a top ten cathedral/chapel choirs of boys and men. It's when they mix up the various types of choirs that it all gets ridiculous.

Incidentally, I have been looking at some you tube videos of Aled Jones singing as a boy and what a very fine treble he was. His singing of Handel arias was astonishing for a boy.

On one of these there was an excerpt of the boys of Bangor Cathedral choir practising with Andrew Goodwin who is still DoM there I believe and they were very competent indeed and I should have thought that being Wales the men were pretty good too; but in all the years I have been listening I can't remember Bangor ever broadcasting CE. We used to hear a lot of Llandaff but never Bangor. Nowadays we only ever hear St David's which is usually girls and men. It is strange that the Land of Song and the country that produced Aled Jones doesn't seem to have a top class choir of boys and men.

VCC

[DracoM]

I'm afraid I really cringed when I heard R3 following a now somewhat tarnished 'Gramophone' lead to search for top ten in anything in something as subjective as music, as choirs, given the HUGE number of different kinds of ensembles / purposes. So 'Strictly', so trivialising, so Classic FM, so absolutely Aled Jones and the Radio 2 approach and the desperation to up ratings.

Why does it matter? Seriously, apart from being a cynical marketing ploy the BBC are now complicit in, what actually does it matter?

[decantor]

I wouldn't mind seeing suggestions for a top ten cathedral/chapel choirs of boys and men. It's when they mix up the various types of choirs that it all gets ridiculous.

Incidentally, I have been looking at some you tube videos of Aled Jones singing as a boy and what a very fine treble he was. His singing of Handel arias was astonishing for a boy.

On one of these there was an excerpt of the boys of Bangor Cathedral choir practising with Andrew Goodwin who is still DoM there I believe and they were very competent indeed and I should have thought that being Wales the men were pretty good too; but in all the years I have been listening I can't remember Bangor ever broadcasting CE. We used to hear a lot of Llandaff but never Bangor. Nowadays we only ever hear St David's which is usually girls and men. It is strange that the Land of Song and the country that produced Aled Jones doesn't seem to have a top class choir of boys and men.

VCC

VCC, while I agree that extracting a 'Top Ten' from the full range of choirs is about as ludicrous as these things get, I'm not convinced that even a 'Top Ten' all-male cathedral choir list is a good idea. Why pit them against each other when their very existence is somewhat precarious? Why risk disheartening those who miss out? If a choir is effective in context, does it matter if there are ten better ones? I would have thought that it was more important to offer encouragement (letters/emails to the DoM etc) whenever it seems merited.

Aled Jones was indeed extraordinary as a treble. His technique seemed to come so naturally, and he had an instinct for style, and for shaping a phrase.

As for Welsh all-male liturgical choirs, I believe that Newport Cathedral (St Woolos) works hard to fly the flag, and their DoM remains ambitious for them. I've heard them only once (about 18 months ago): they were not top flight, but they could sing a good service. See here:- http://www.newportcathedralchoir.org/

[Simon]

The top ten thing wouldn't work for me either, for reasons that I stated quite fully quite recently.

I think that there are choirs that are consistently good, often for a number of years, but they can nonetheless vary so much week to week depending on all sorts of things that it would be almost impossible to find a suitable measuring device.

Most are good, or even excellent, for at least some of the time, and few are less than fair most of the time. Occasionally, there's a blip - it happens to them all.

What I believe is common is that they all try - extremely hard - to give the best they can, both AMDG and for the sake of those who listen, and of course for their own satisfaction and pride in a job well done. That's why, even when we've criticised other aspects (usually repertoire!) most of us here have always found a positive to say about (especially) the top row.

And that's why we must, I feel, continue to do this - and to give as much support, publicity and praise as we can for something that we are IMO extremely fortunate to have - free, daily and so often at the height of excellence.

[Magnificat]

I don't disagree with you in principle Simon but I think for us regular listeners to CE it would be disingenuous if we didn't say that there have been over the last, say, 20 years probably about half a dozen choirs of boys and men that have been consistently a notch above the rest when they broadcast whether one likes everything about their style of singing, tone etc; certainly those I would have put in this category have been reflected in the comments about them by others on the BBC message board and this one in the two years or so that I have been involved in them.

VCC

[Brassbandmaestro]

Bring back Paul Guinery!!

[subcontrabass]

Bring back Paul Guinery!!

Hear, hear!

[Anna]

Referring back to the original message, did it say list of Cathedral Choirs or list of Choirs including 'cross-over' Choirs. If the latter then I am not averse to that, if it is Cathedral Choirs then I think that's an impossibility because, when we listen to CE we are also judging the complete service and it's difficult to separate one from the other. At least that is my feeling and I am probably alone in that.
Edit: And as mentioned above, there are so many choirs who are not broadcast at all, so I think a top ten would be rather unfair to those not broadcast.