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  • smittims
    Full Member
    • Aug 2022
    • 5931

    Thomas Hardy : A Laodicean. Not one of his more acclaimed works but I've always enjoyed it. The Penguin Classics edition used the first published book version, rather than the 1912 standard edition which previous printings have repeated. Coincidentally my O-H is reading Far from the Madding Crowd.

    I've been more struck this time by Hardy's symbolic character names: Farmer Boldwood, Gabriel Oak, Paula Power,and the cheeky photographer called Dare (an ancestor of Dan,perhaps ) .



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    • vinteuil
      Full Member
      • Nov 2010
      • 13932

      Originally posted by smittims View Post

      I've been more struck this time by Hardy's symbolic character names: Farmer Boldwood, Gabriel Oak, Paula Power,and the cheeky photographer called Dare ...
      ... but don't you think it's a bit corny? The author telling you in advance what to think of the characters, rather than revealing them thro' their words and actions?

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      • Petrushka
        Full Member
        • Nov 2010
        • 13013

        Originally posted by vinteuil View Post

        ... but don't you think it's a bit corny? The author telling you in advance what to think of the characters, rather than revealing them thro' their words and actions?
        When it comes to characters names I do sometimes find it difficult to get over the silliness of some of those that Dickens chooses.
        "The sound is the handwriting of the conductor" - Bernard Haitink

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        • smittims
          Full Member
          • Aug 2022
          • 5931

          I certainly don't think it's corny, I don't think of it as telling us in advance but rather it gives unity and consistency to the work.

          Names of fictional characters has often been a novelist's bane. Evelyn Waugh once lamented in his diary the hopelessnes of being original. 'Today's Times shows births to Fimbel , Futty, and Prescott-pickupp.'

          I've never understood how people can go through life caed Fullalove or Prettyjohn. Imagine having to spell it out to hotel receptionists and then hearing them snigger behind your back.

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          • vinteuil
            Full Member
            • Nov 2010
            • 13932

            Originally posted by smittims View Post
            I certainly don't think it's corny, I don't think of it as telling us in advance.
            ... come now - "Gabriel Oak" : of course he's going to be the solid man of integrity



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            • french frank
              Administrator/Moderator
              • Feb 2007
              • 32065

              Originally posted by Petrushka View Post

              When it comes to characters names I do sometimes find it difficult to get over the silliness of some of those that Dickens chooses.
              Mr Gradgrind came to mind just before I read your post. Pecksniff. Don't meet may Chuzzlewits these days either.

              I am reading Walter Henry Bates [recte Henry Walter Bates], In the Heart of the Amazon Forest. It's a 100-pqge Penguin 'taster' in the Great Jouneys series. The whole work, should I feeli nclined to pursue this, is The Naturalist on the River Amazons.

              Just checking: Later Penguin editions have corrected his name, I see.
              It isn't given us to know those rare moments when people are wide open and the lightest touch can wither or heal. A moment too late and we can never reach them any more in this world.

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              • richardfinegold
                Full Member
                • Sep 2012
                • 8316

                Originally posted by Petrushka View Post

                When it comes to characters names I do sometimes find it difficult to get over the silliness of some of those that Dickens chooses.
                I always liked the choice of Stryver for the ambitious barrister in A Tale of Two Cities

                Comment

                • Ian Thumwood
                  Full Member
                  • Dec 2010
                  • 4688

                  Originally posted by vinteuil View Post

                  ... but don't you think it's a bit corny? The author telling you in advance what to think of the characters, rather than revealing them thro' their words and actions?
                  We went to see a play based in "Far from the madding crowd" having been forced to read this a school 40 years ago. I have to say that Hardy's depiction of 19th century agrarian life had always strick me as ridiculously melodramatic and totally unlike what I had studied in O and A level history lessons. The books are really of their time and the play reminded me just how over the top they were and lacking in the humour of Charles Dickens. Wondered if anyone else felt that their appeal will have evaporated in a hundred years time ? The books are almost as bad as some opera plots.

                  I am currently reading Rachel Kushner 's ,"Creation Lake. " It got a great review on Radio 4 but suffers from a desire to be too hip. Not sure what it is actually about but only 45 pages in. The lead character is not too sympathetic.

                  Comment

                  • Ein Heldenleben
                    Full Member
                    • Apr 2014
                    • 8209

                    Originally posted by Petrushka View Post

                    When it comes to characters names I do sometimes find it difficult to get over the silliness of some of those that Dickens chooses.
                    Didn’t he get them from gravestones - specifically one near Gravesend ? Jaggers for example - a Kent surname as in Mick Jagger (from Dartford).
                    For years I walked past the grave of Fanny Cobbledick on my way home in Devon. Unfortunately people with these very interesting English surnames have a habit of changing them as they are perceived to be odd. A terrible shame,

                    Comment

                    • Ein Heldenleben
                      Full Member
                      • Apr 2014
                      • 8209

                      Originally posted by Ian Thumwood View Post

                      We went to see a play based in "Far from the madding crowd" having been forced to read this a school 40 years ago. I have to say that Hardy's depiction of 19th century agrarian life had always strick me as ridiculously melodramatic and totally unlike what I had studied in O and A level history lessons. The books are really of their time and the play reminded me just how over the top they were and lacking in the humour of Charles Dickens. Wondered if anyone else felt that their appeal will have evaporated in a hundred years time ? The books are almost as bad as some opera plots.

                      I am currently reading Rachel Kushner 's ,"Creation Lake. " It got a great review on Radio 4 but suffers from a desire to be too hip. Not sure what it is actually about but only 45 pages in. The lead character is not too sympathetic.
                      Actually Hardy’s depiction of the changing nature of rural life - the arrival of the steam thresher in Tess with its huge implications for life on farms; or the banishment of the old style church band in Under The Greenwood Tree is thought to be amongst his greatest achievements. Far From The Madding Crowd with its themes of women finding a position of power in rural society and its potential loss through marriage and the edging out of the traditional shepherd is squarely in that line of achievement. But he’s not a mere chronicler - people , including youngsters reading Tess for A level are drawn to depth of his understanding of human psychology and flaws . He will definitely be read in a hundred years.

                      Comment

                      • Pulcinella
                        Host
                        • Feb 2014
                        • 12433

                        Surely The School for Scandal wins the character name prize?
                        Sir Peter Teazle Sir Peter Teazle is a wealthy gentleman who has recently married a much younger woman. Sir Peter does seem to genuinely love his wife, but he wishes she would show that she returns his feeling more often.
                        Lady Teazle Lady Teazle is the young wife of Sir Peter Teazle. Pert and vivacious, she quarrels often with her husband. She is determined that her country upbringing will not stand in the way of her new incarnation as a sophisticated lady of fashion.
                        Sir Oliver Surface Sir Oliver Surface is a wealthy gentleman who has just returned to Britain from a lengthy stay in the East Indies. He is the uncle of Joseph and Charles Surface.
                        Joseph Surface Joseph Surface is the nephew of Sir Oliver Surface and a close associate of Lady Sneerwell.
                        Charles Surface Charles Surface, a young London man about town, is the younger brother of Joseph Surface and the nephew of Sir Oliver.
                        Lady Sneerwell Lady Sneerwell is a wealthy aging socialite who serves as the nerve center and hub of the "school for scandal."
                        Sir Benjamin Backbite Sir Benjamin Backbite is a pompous, gossipy young gentleman who pays court to Maria, usually with his evil-tongued uncle Crabtree in tow.
                        Sir Harry Bumper Sir Harry Bumper is one of Charles Surface's drinking and gambling companions. In Act 3, Scene 3 he delivers a song in praise of debauchery. His surname means "a glass filled to the brim" and also a toast made with an alcoholic beverage.
                        Mrs. Candour Mrs. Candour is one of the members of Lady Sneerwell's "school for scandal." She is especially notable for her moralistic disclaimers: she affects to despise gossip, but she actually revels in it. In an example of verbal irony, candour is the British spelling for candor, meaning honesty or openness.
                        Careless Careless is one of Charles Surface's companions. As his name implies, he is devoted to dissipation and extravagance.
                        Crabtree Crabtree is the ill-natured uncle of Sir Benjamin Backbite. He is something of a toady or sycophant, perpetually touting his vacuous nephew's cleverness and wit.

                        Comment

                        • Bella Kemp
                          Full Member
                          • Aug 2014
                          • 522

                          Originally posted by Ein Heldenleben View Post

                          Actually Hardy’s depiction of the changing nature of rural life - the arrival of the steam thresher in Tess with its huge implications for life on farms; or the banishment of the old style church band in Under The Greenwood Tree is thought to be amongst his greatest achievements. Far From The Madding Crowd with its themes of women finding a position of power in rural society and its potential loss through marriage and the edging out of the traditional shepherd is squarely in that line of achievement. But he’s not a mere chronicler - people , including youngsters reading Tess for A level are drawn to depth of his understanding of human psychology and flaws . He will definitely be read in a hundred years.
                          I utterly agree. I taught Tess to some A level students last year and they found it utterly gripping. They were invited to compare it to A Thousand Splendid Suns, by Khaled Hosseini, and the parallels between how women are treated now in contemporary Afghanistan and how they suffered in 19th Century England were clear. And then there are Hardy's wonderful descriptions of the countryside - so incredibly vivid many of my young students were able to understand how the written word can triumph over what flashes on a screen.

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                          • Ein Heldenleben
                            Full Member
                            • Apr 2014
                            • 8209

                            Originally posted by Bella Kemp View Post

                            I utterly agree. I taught Tess to some A level students last year and they found it utterly gripping. They were invited to compare it to A Thousand Splendid Suns, by Khaled Hosseini, and the parallels between how women are treated now in contemporary Afghanistan and how they suffered in 19th Century England were clear. And then there are Hardy's wonderful descriptions of the countryside - so incredibly vivid many of my young students were able to understand how the written word can triumph over what flashes on a screen.
                            Yes that description of Tess as the insect on the “billiard table of infinite length.” I filmed once from that spot on the Blackmoor vale and it’s exactly like that. I’ve seen kids on the tube reading Tess - now that’s a welcome first.

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                            • french frank
                              Administrator/Moderator
                              • Feb 2007
                              • 32065

                              Originally posted by Ein Heldenleben View Post
                              ...or the banishment of the old style church band in Under The Greenwood Tree is thought to be amongst his greatest achievements.
                              Under the Greenwood Tree was our fourth form set text. Although I've never read it since (so much to read, so little time), many, many decades later I still have very fond memories of it, mental vignettes. Maybe it's just nostalgia for a gentler world than we have now.

                              It isn't given us to know those rare moments when people are wide open and the lightest touch can wither or heal. A moment too late and we can never reach them any more in this world.

                              Comment

                              • Ein Heldenleben
                                Full Member
                                • Apr 2014
                                • 8209

                                Originally posted by french frank View Post

                                Under the Greenwood Tree was our fourth form set text. Although I've never read it since (so much to read, so little time), many, many decades later I still have very fond memories of it, mental vignettes. Maybe it's just nostalgia for a gentler world than we have now.
                                In its small contained way it’s a profound work. The passing of a ingrained way of life , the supplanting of the organic ( the band ) and human by the crude and mechanical (the organ ] - pretty much an analogy for what was happening in agriculture. Farms -and by extension villages - in the 19th century were well populated and social - for all their poverty. Now the life of a small dairy or sheep farmer is largely a solitary one. Hardy perceived all this and realised what was being lost. Amazing when you look as 19th century censuses and see that small villages on Dartmoor for example often had populations four times what there are now. Of course Hardy country itself esp around Stinsford is pretty much a boom area now.

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