What are you reading now?

[Ein Heldenleben]

For me his finest description of the countryside is that of the Dorset heathland in The Return of the Native - a vivid description of an almost vanished habitat and way of life. Incidentally, Francis Spufford, in I May Be Some Time, links Hardy's characterisation of Clem Yeobright with the characters of Arctic exploration, which aroused much public interest around the time the book was written, even though Yeobright returned to the heath from study in Paris.

By the way, when I was researching my maternal family tree a few years back, I found a number of Hardys from Dorset as distantly related. Correspondence with one of my sources suggested that I may be distantly related to Thomas Hardy (distant cousin several times removed).

Yes Egdon Heath has been mighty abused over the years. In Hardy’s day ( and indeed up to about the thirties ) you could walk all the way from Lulworth Cove to London on Heathland . Now the fragmentary Dorset heaths are our only (English) habitat of global importance and every year someone takes another nibble out of them. And if this govt has its way there’ll be nothing left outside the fragments the RSPB and Natural England own.

Bitter? You bet …

[Ian Thumwood]

I never tire of re-reading Hardy, the poems and the novels. He had a phenomenal understanding of human feelings and the ability to communicate them throough art.

I can sympathise with this statement but it just does not apply to FFRMC which is a product of the prevailing mindset of the late Victorian era. In my opinion the best book that captures that era is Joseph Conrad's "Nostromo" which features the first anti hero in literature.

It is an intriguing thought to select books which capture the human spirit of their time. I quite like Zola who is more rugged and negative in his view of 19th century life albeit in France. Perhaps he is too negative and pessimistic in the way that Hardy is too melodramatic.

I do think that the Ian Rankin Rebus novels really reflect the political life in Scotland since 1990s and have wondered of future readers would appreciate how divided people were on subjects like Brexit and Scottish Independence which are just two elements that features in the series. They are more critiques of an evolving society than detective books. Rankin provides a brilliant assessment of contemporary. Bring devil's advocate, I wonder if people today recognise Rankin's world view more than agricultural labourers did of Hardy's "vision" of rural life in Dorset. There is something almost operatic about the plot of FFTMC but not in a good way.

[Ein Heldenleben]

I can sympathise with this statement but it just does not apply to FFRMC which is a product of the prevailing mindset of the late Victorian era. In my opinion the best book that captures that era is Joseph Conrad's "Nostromo" which features the first anti hero in literature.

It is an intriguing thought to select books which capture the human spirit of their time. I quite like Zola who is more rugged and negative in his view of 19th century life albeit in France. Perhaps he is too negative and pessimistic in the way that Hardy is too melodramatic.

I do think that the Ian Rankin Rebus novels really reflect the political life in Scotland since 1990s and have wondered of future readers would appreciate how divided people were on subjects like Brexit and Scottish Independence which are just two elements that features in the series. They are more critiques of an evolving society than detective books. Rankin provides a brilliant assessment of contemporary. Bring devil's advocate, I wonder if people today recognise Rankin's world view more than agricultural labourers did of Hardy's "vision" of rural life in Dorset. There is something almost operatic about the plot of FFTMC but not in a good way.

Have to say I think that’s a misreading . FFTMC is generally thought of as an early feminist novel - Bathsheba is a a hero with real agency, Nostromo is not really a Victorian novel at all. And as for “anti-hero” it’s all about definition of terms . Candide is an anti hero , so is Pip …

[french frank]

I can sympathise with this statement but it just does not apply to FFRMC which is a product of the prevailing mindset of the late Victorian era..

This is a really interesting question. I've been wondering whether part of appreciating any literary work of the past (and in many other contexts too) requires a form of empathy. I think too often people judge on the basis of their modern 'mindset'. Why should one not be interested in understanding the Victorian mindset? It would be helpful in many situations if people could think themselves back into what life was like in other times, what were the limitations and concerns of life in other times. If they're really imaginative they might even think themselves forward and wonder how the mindset of the early 21st century will be judged in a hundred years time.

[Ian Thumwood]

Have to say I think that’s a misreading . FFTMC is generally thought of as an early feminist novel - Bathsheba is a a hero with real agency, Nostromo is not really a Victorian novel at all. And as for “anti-hero” it’s all about definition of terms . Candide is an anti hero , so is Pip …

I do not really see Bathsheba as a heroine and think she leads at least one suitor down the garden bath. It is a bit odd describing a book as feminist just because a leading character is a woman and the author is a bloke. I would throw a more eccentric example back to you which is Ian Fleming's "The spy who loved me." I find Fleming to be a wildly erratic writer but this is perhaps the most interesting Bond book because 007 does not appear until the last third of the book. This novel has a female lead and has also been described as being feminist. Maybe the case is stronger than with the Hardy novel. I feel it is a very peculiar take on James Bond who effectively is secondary to the woman whose sense of adventure sees her fall victim to an insurance scam. Is it Fleming's feminist novel ? I am not sure although I can appreciate that the angle of the novel is a massive surprise. It is the odd book in the Bond series which also reflects the early 1900s generation of both Fleming and Bond - the latter being revealed as a visitor to clubs featuring the likes of Cab Calloway. I think you can make a case for many books being feminist!

To throw another hand grenade into the debate. Are women writing about men better than men writing about women?

[smittims]

That's too much of a generalisation to be useful . Jane Austen is brilliant at writing about men - Elizabeth Jane Howard terrible. Chekhov is brilliant writing about women , but he criticised Turgenev for not understanding them. I suppose Chekhov knew more about women because he was a physician, while Turgenev knew only three women in his life,and one, his mother, wasn't a good role-model!

CP Snow, though I love his novels, is rather harsh on women, I think, wheras his wife, Pamela Hansford Johnson, portrays men very well,in my opinion.

[Ein Heldenleben]

I do not really see Bathsheba as a heroine and think she leads at least one suitor down the garden bath. It is a bit odd describing a book as feminist just because a leading character is a woman and the author is a bloke. I would throw a more eccentric example back to you which is Ian Fleming's "The spy who loved me." I find Fleming to be a wildly erratic writer but this is perhaps the most interesting Bond book because 007 does not appear until the last third of the book. This novel has a female lead and has also been described as being feminist. Maybe the case is stronger than with the Hardy novel. I feel it is a very peculiar take on James Bond who effectively is secondary to the woman whose sense of adventure sees her fall victim to an insurance scam. Is it Fleming's feminist novel ? I am not sure although I can appreciate that the angle of the novel is a massive surprise. It is the odd book in the Bond series which also reflects the early 1900s generation of both Fleming and Bond - the latter being revealed as a visitor to clubs featuring the likes of Cab Calloway. I think you can make a case for many books being feminist!

To throw another hand grenade into the debate. Are women writing about men better than men writing about women?

One quick Google search will reveal the amount of critical approaches to FFTMC which consider it a profoundly feminist novel. Flemings novels are not worthy of serious critical attention,

[LMcD]

I do not really see Bathsheba as a heroine and think she leads at least one suitor down the garden bath. It is a bit odd describing a book as feminist just because a leading character is a woman and the author is a bloke. I would throw a more eccentric example back to you which is Ian Fleming's "The spy who loved me." I find Fleming to be a wildly erratic writer but this is perhaps the most interesting Bond book because 007 does not appear until the last third of the book. This novel has a female lead and has also been described as being feminist. Maybe the case is stronger than with the Hardy novel. I feel it is a very peculiar take on James Bond who effectively is secondary to the woman whose sense of adventure sees her fall victim to an insurance scam. Is it Fleming's feminist novel ? I am not sure although I can appreciate that the angle of the novel is a massive surprise. It is the odd book in the Bond series which also reflects the early 1900s generation of both Fleming and Bond - the latter being revealed as a visitor to clubs featuring the likes of Cab Calloway. I think you can make a case for many books being feminist!

To throw another hand grenade into the debate. Are women writing about men better than men writing about women?

That's a bit saucy (especially for Wessex) isn't it? I would have thought that garden baths were strictly for the birds.

[vinteuil]

That's a bit saucy (especially for Wessex) isn't it? I would have thought that garden baths were strictly for the birds.

... here's a wessex garden bath -

https://www.exploringbuildinghistory.co.uk/910-2/

[Ein Heldenleben]

This is a really interesting question. I've been wondering whether part of appreciating any literary work of the past (and in many other contexts too) requires a form of empathy. I think too often people judge on the basis of their modern 'mindset'. Why should one not be interested in understanding the Victorian mindset? It would be helpful in many situations if people could think themselves back into what life was like in other times, what were the limitations and concerns of life in other times. If they're really imaginative they might even think themselves forward and wonder how the mindset of the early 21st century will be judged in a hundred years time.

I’m not sure there was a “prevailing Victorian mindset” - it was a very complex society - but if there was , it certainly wasn’t embodied by authors like Dickens , Gaskell and Hardy who spent a lot of time critiquing the many downsides of that society’s untrammelled capitalism and rapid pace of change. That’s one reason among many fro reading them.

[vinteuil]

This is a really interesting question. I've been wondering whether part of appreciating any literary work of the past (and in many other contexts too) requires a form of empathy. .

... indeed isn't the whole point of serious reading to enable one to step in to another's shoes, as it were : seeing the world from a different point of view, exploring other 'mind sets' (whatever they may be)

.

[Ein Heldenleben]

... indeed isn't the whole point of serious reading to enable one to step in to another's shoes, as it were : seeing the world from a different point of view, exploring other 'mind sets' (whatever they may be)

.

Good point. I would make an exception for American Psycho though…

[Pulcinella]

... indeed isn't the whole point of serious reading to enable one to step in to another's shoes, as it were : seeing the world from a different point of view, exploring other 'mind sets' (whatever they may be)

.

I'm not sure that I fancy stepping into Jilly Cooper's Rider boots.

[vinteuil]

I'm not sure that I fancy stepping into Jilly Cooper's Rider boots.

... I did say serious reading








.

[Ein Heldenleben]

I'm not sure that I fancy stepping into Jilly Cooper's Rider boots.

But that’s her selling point isn’t it ? The mild erotic frisson of adultery set against the glamour of Polo and with the Cotswolds as a backdrop. It’s absolute cobblers of course - there’s a real underbelly to rural life in England which rarely gets covered.