Vienna Philharmonic New Year's Concert 2026

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  • Petrushka
    Full Member
    • Nov 2010
    • 13192

    #91
    Originally posted by Ein Heldenleben View Post

    That’s a question that has had my slightly hungover New Years Day head puzziling over for years. My guess is that the VPO and YNS record the two tracks some days before . That’s then used as playback on location for the dancers. The piece is then edited . That allows the dancers to be edited perfectly in sync to the music, There was an example in the Roses of the South when each of four lifts was perfectly matched to the beat of the waltz. That doesn’t always happen in live ballet - to put it mildly.

    On the day I reckon on TV we hear the pre record and the audience hear the piece live possibly with YNS having the TV sound fed to his ear. More likely he just repeats his earlier tempo - it’s not that difficult . Things would only go awry if he goes much faster or worse, much slower. I bet they have some sort of visual filler to stop them going back to a hall with the band still playing. It’s just possible we hear at home the live version - if so Bravi tutti.
    I think that this was partly explained once. The music to be used for the ballet sequences is recorded in the summer as, I think, are the ballet sequences themselves. The outdoor locations do suggest summer. The sound we hear from the TV I would expect to be live from the hall. The timing of the applause suggests this. As you say, the conductor repeats the tempo to match the recording.

    In addition, there have been occasions when the ballet has been performed live, a pretty risky undertaking you'd have thought, but the live Schönbrunn sequence in the Kaiserwalzer during the 1987 Karajan NYDC was one of the very few occasions when I found the ballet a very special and moving experience.
    "The sound is the handwriting of the conductor" - Bernard Haitink

    Comment

    • Roger Webb
      Full Member
      • Feb 2024
      • 2427

      #92
      Originally posted by Ein Heldenleben View Post

      That’s a question that has had my slightly hungover New Years Day head puzziling over for years. My guess is that the VPO and YNS record the two tracks some days before . That’s then used as playback on location for the dancers. The piece is then edited . That allows the dancers to be edited perfectly in sync to the music, There was an example in the Roses of the South when each of four lifts was perfectly matched to the beat of the waltz. That doesn’t always happen in live ballet - to put it mildly.

      On the day I reckon on TV we hear the pre record and the audience hear the piece live possibly with YNS having the TV sound fed to his ear. More likely he just repeats his earlier tempo - it’s not that difficult . Things would only go awry if he goes much faster or worse, much slower. I bet they have some sort of visual filler to stop them going back to a hall with the band still playing. It’s just possible we hear at home the live version - if so Bravi tutti.
      Good explanation....I knew you'd be the one to come up with something plausible - much what I thought.

      Quite a few years ago there was a 'live' TV broadcast of Tosca from the three places in Rome depicted in the Opera with Domingo....it was subsequently released on RCA as a DVD and CD set. I recorded the 'live' perf on VHS, and, while watching 'as it happened' it was quite convincing, but on playback there were inconsistencies, especially in the stereo soundtrack, that led me to believe that they were miming, and it wasn't live at all.

      When (I think) the BBC re-showed it there were obvious differences (and this is the version released on DVD), especially in the choice of shots used - for example, in the original 1st Act Domingo is seen to slip when rushing off stage, but not on the later broadcast. Soundtrack-wise if you listen to the (stereo) sound on the original 'live' broadcast on VHS the stereo is too perfect, and doesn't relate to where the singers are....this is especially obvious with the choirboys who rush about on stage in all directions, but on the soundtrack are perfectly laid out left to right, just like in the studio! The orchestra were in a studio, and were shown at the beginning, and we were told that the sound was relayed to the singers in situ. But surely the mikes on set would pick up the sound, as well as the singers voices. The last act just didn't sound 'out doors', in fact the acoustic, monitored on headphones, sounds the same in all three locations.

      It remained a mystery - I asked the RCA rep the next time he came round, but he was none the wiser...only saying that others had questioned whether it was actually live......trouble is opera singer are pretty good mimers!....just look at that Böhm Salome on DG DVD!

      Comment

      • LHC
        Full Member
        • Jan 2011
        • 1730

        #93
        Originally posted by Petrushka View Post

        I think that this was partly explained once. The music to be used for the ballet sequences is recorded in the summer as, I think, are the ballet sequences themselves. The outdoor locations do suggest summer. The sound we hear from the TV I would expect to be live from the hall. The timing of the applause suggests this. As you say, the conductor repeats the tempo to match the recording.

        In addition, there have been occasions when the ballet has been performed live, a pretty risky undertaking you'd have thought, but the live Schönbrunn sequence in the Kaiserwalzer during the 1987 Karajan NYDC was one of the very few occasions when I found the ballet a very special and moving experience.
        In 2009 there was a ballet sequence during the Blue Danube encore. This was clearly live as the dancers were just outside the hall in the Musikverein and actually ended the ballet sequence by entering the hall to coincide with the end of the Blue Danube.
        "I do not approve of anything that tampers with natural ignorance. Ignorance is like a delicate exotic fruit; touch it and the bloom is gone. The whole theory of modern education is radically unsound. Fortunately in England, at any rate, education produces no effect whatsoever. If it did, it would prove a serious danger to the upper classes, and probably lead to acts of violence in Grosvenor Square."
        Lady Bracknell The importance of Being Earnest

        Comment

        • Opinionated Knowall
          Full Member
          • Jan 2014
          • 74

          #94
          Originally posted by LHC View Post

          In 2009 there was a ballet sequence during the Blue Danube encore. This was clearly live as the dancers were just outside the hall in the Musikverein and actually ended the ballet sequence by entering the hall to coincide with the end of the Blue Danube.
          As usual Google is your friend. Here's a post from 2011:

          The question came up how the music and the ballet, especially the pre-produced ballet segments, are coordinated so well during the New Year's Concert from Vienna.

          So I emailed the ORF and asked. I received a very detailed answer: the pre-produced ballet segments and the live performance aren't coordinated at all. They record the music for those segments at a rehearsal in September and then use the recording to film the ballet segments. During the concert, when the applause from the preceding piece is fading away, they crossfade to the pre-produced film (with the audio from the previous recording). The conductor has a small red "traffic light" at or near his music stand. It tells him when the video is rolling so he can start the performance of that piece. So the people in the hall hear the music live (obviously) while the people in front of the TV see - and hear - the pre-produced video. When the segment is over, they use a static image from the hall with no audience in it (ceiling, flowers, columns) to crossfade back into the live performance during the applause.

          Some of the segments (this year the Blue Danube) are actually completely live. In that case, they have an additional broadcasting van at the dancing location which is linked to the main broadcasting van at the Musikverein via a fiber optic network. They play the live sound at the dancing location and send the live video back to the van at the MV where image and sound are mixed and then sent out into the world.

          So now we know!

          Comment

          • Ein Heldenleben
            Full Member
            • Apr 2014
            • 8641

            #95
            Originally posted by Opinionated Knowall View Post

            As usual Google is your friend. Here's a post from 2011:

            The question came up how the music and the ballet, especially the pre-produced ballet segments, are coordinated so well during the New Year's Concert from Vienna.

            So I emailed the ORF and asked. I received a very detailed answer: the pre-produced ballet segments and the live performance aren't coordinated at all. They record the music for those segments at a rehearsal in September and then use the recording to film the ballet segments. During the concert, when the applause from the preceding piece is fading away, they crossfade to the pre-produced film (with the audio from the previous recording). The conductor has a small red "traffic light" at or near his music stand. It tells him when the video is rolling so he can start the performance of that piece. So the people in the hall hear the music live (obviously) while the people in front of the TV see - and hear - the pre-produced video. When the segment is over, they use a static image from the hall with no audience in it (ceiling, flowers, columns) to crossfade back into the live performance during the applause.

            Some of the segments (this year the Blue Danube) are actually completely live. In that case, they have an additional broadcasting van at the dancing location which is linked to the main broadcasting van at the Musikverein via a fiber optic network. They play the live sound at the dancing location and send the live video back to the van at the MV where image and sound are mixed and then sent out into the world.

            So now we know!
            thanks v much. Good to know that my guess wasn’t far off. I should have spotted the static image as the continuity bridge though !

            Comment

            • Ein Heldenleben
              Full Member
              • Apr 2014
              • 8641

              #96
              Originally posted by Roger Webb View Post

              Good explanation....I knew you'd be the one to come up with something plausible - much what I thought.

              Quite a few years ago there was a 'live' TV broadcast of Tosca from the three places in Rome depicted in the Opera with Domingo....it was subsequently released on RCA as a DVD and CD set. I recorded the 'live' perf on VHS, and, while watching 'as it happened' it was quite convincing, but on playback there were inconsistencies, especially in the stereo soundtrack, that led me to believe that they were miming, and it wasn't live at all.

              When (I think) the BBC re-showed it there were obvious differences (and this is the version released on DVD), especially in the choice of shots used - for example, in the original 1st Act Domingo is seen to slip when rushing off stage, but not on the later broadcast. Soundtrack-wise if you listen to the (stereo) sound on the original 'live' broadcast on VHS the stereo is too perfect, and doesn't relate to where the singers are....this is especially obvious with the choirboys who rush about on stage in all directions, but on the soundtrack are perfectly laid out left to right, just like in the studio! The orchestra were in a studio, and were shown at the beginning, and we were told that the sound was relayed to the singers in situ. But surely the mikes on set would pick up the sound, as well as the singers voices. The last act just didn't sound 'out doors', in fact the acoustic, monitored on headphones, sounds the same in all three locations.

              It remained a mystery - I asked the RCA rep the next time he came round, but he was none the wiser...only saying that others had questioned whether it was actually live......trouble is opera singer are pretty good mimers!....just look at that Böhm Salome on DG DVD!
              The producer / director was adamant that it was all live with the orchestra playing in a separate hall . But there was also a safety orchestral pre record playing in case of line failure from the live band. The cue sound could have been fed to earpieces. It would also be just about possible to have a speaker monitor feed without colouring the singers mikes. That would have to be kept fairly low and the problem would be the voices of Malfitano , Domingo and the Scarpia not drowning it out. I reckon the final outside act would pose the greatest difficulties because of traffic / aircraft noises .

              Comment

              • Roger Webb
                Full Member
                • Feb 2024
                • 2427

                #97
                Originally posted by Ein Heldenleben View Post

                The producer / director was adamant that it was all live with the orchestra playing in a separate hall . But there was also a safety orchestral pre record playing in case of line failure from the live band. The cue sound could have been fed to earpieces. It would also be just about possible to have a speaker monitor feed without colouring the singers mikes. That would have to be kept fairly low and the problem would be the voices of Malfitano , Domingo and the Scarpia not drowning it out. I reckon the final outside act would pose the greatest difficulties because of traffic / aircraft noises .
                I suppose we have to believe the producer/director, although it sounds like there were generally questions about it. I looked carefully to see if any cast members were wearing earpieces - very common for foldback now, but not so much then. It was also suggested that concealed mics could have been used, but back then harder to hide in clothing...and the transmitters were much bigger than now.....and what about the choir in the 1st act.

                Good explanation by KiA of the Vienna setup though......but I'd still like to know if the 'Monet Garden' was actually Giverny, filmed while they were on tour in Paris....I thought the Ravel pretty-well played.

                Comment

                • jonfan
                  Full Member
                  • Dec 2010
                  • 1707

                  #98
                  There are female members of the orchestra, female composers, but how long before a female conductor directs the New Years Day concert? Not in anyone’s lifetime soon I suspect.

                  Comment

                  • cria
                    Full Member
                    • Jul 2022
                    • 107

                    #99
                    Originally posted by jonfan View Post
                    There are female composers, but how long before a female conductor directs the New Years Day concert? Not in anyone’s lifetime soon I suspect.
                    ... as soon as Mirga's babies grow up a bit

                    Comment

                    • Barbirollians
                      Full Member
                      • Nov 2010
                      • 12698

                      Originally posted by cria View Post
                      ... as soon as Mirga's babies grow up a bit
                      Yes Mirga has conducted the VPO and as anyone who has heard her conducting Johann Strauss as an encore with the CBSO would know she is a natural in this music .

                      Comment

                      • Roger Webb
                        Full Member
                        • Feb 2024
                        • 2427

                        Just listening again - post-footy....The mighty Weston 'Seagulls' defeated by the Grims' ! - the Southern 'Seagulls' play tomorrow.

                        This now up on Qobuz, and sounds very good.



                        Edit. Although, shawn of any audience appreciation, it doesn't sound very 'live' -apart from the Radetzky March....where the out-of-time clapping is only too obvious - but strangely the applause at the end, which follows on from that during the March, is clipped....and that's the end of the recording!.....strangely uninvolving....unlike the original broadcast!
                        Last edited by Roger Webb; 10-01-26, 21:20.

                        Comment

                        • Petrushka
                          Full Member
                          • Nov 2010
                          • 13192

                          Originally posted by Roger Webb View Post
                          Just listening again - post-footy....The mighty Weston 'Seagulls' defeated by the Grims' ! - the Southern 'Seagulls' play tomorrow.

                          This now up on Qobuz, and sounds very good.



                          Edit. Although, shawn of any audience appreciation, it doesn't sound very 'live' -apart from the Radetzky March....where the out-of-time clapping is only too obvious - but strangely the applause at the end, which follows on from that during the March, is clipped....and that's the end of the recording!.....strangely uninvolving....unlike the original broadcast!
                          I usually end up being disappointed by the CD and DVD issues and prefer to have the original TV broadcast which, the ballet segments apart, is shorn of editing.
                          "The sound is the handwriting of the conductor" - Bernard Haitink

                          Comment

                          • Alison
                            Full Member
                            • Nov 2010
                            • 6577

                            Originally posted by Petrushka View Post

                            Boskovsky would be at the top for me. Karajan would be next then Carlos Kleiber. Muti would come next and then all the way down to Thieleman and Harnoncourt at the bottom. YNS would come somewhere in the middle along with Jansons and Mehta.

                            I’m with you on this Pet. Without being disappointed I’d hesitate to put Yannick at the top of any ranking; just lacking the last ounce of the Viennese idiom perhaps, whatever that might mean.

                            Comment

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