The Eternal Breakfast Debate in a New Place

[cloughie]

A marvellous way of describing their regrettable current mindset.

Is the silo also where they source all the sub 6 minute pieces for morning listening?

[french frank]

Needing to be absolutely certain of the facts as outlined in Wikipedia, I've accessed Fétis's Biographie universelle t. 6 (1840) pp 394-5, where he was first described as a 'mousquetaire noir' and also the French wiki which is precise:

"À partir de 1665, le roi impose la robe de leurs chevaux aux mousquetaires : ceux de la première compagnie doivent être montés sur des chevaux gris pommelés, et ceux de la deuxième compagnie sur des chevaux noirs. Les mousquetaires de la première compagnie sont pour cette raison surnommés Mousquetaires gris, et ceux de la deuxième compagnie Mousquetaires noirs ..."

Still working on whether his father was really a goldsmith named Josse ... [More follows]

[Roger Webb]

Needing to be absolutely certain of the facts as outlined in Wikipedia, I've accessed Fétis's Biographie universelle t. 6 (1840) pp 394-5, where he was first described as a 'mousquetaire noir' and also the French wiki which is precise:

"À partir de 1665, le roi impose la robe de leurs chevaux aux mousquetaires : ceux de la première compagnie doivent être montés sur des chevaux gris pommelés, et ceux de la deuxième compagnie sur des chevaux noirs. Les mousquetaires de la première compagnie sont pour cette raison surnommés Mousquetaires gris, et ceux de la deuxième compagnie Mousquetaires noirs ..."

Still working on whether his father was really a goldsmith named Josse ... [More follows]

You might be interested to see this, the court report in the Journal de Paris of the law suit brought against Meude-Monpas by the Duc d'Ailguillon who accused M-M of writing a pamphlet implying that the Duc dressed as a woman!

[french frank]

You might be interested to see this, the court report in the Journal de Paris of the law suit brought against Meude-Monpas by the Duc d'Ailguillon who accused M-M of writing a pamphlet implying that the Duc dressed as a woman!

The legend/rumour was that the duke had taken part in the Women's March that took place at the start of the French Revolution. Hence the Duke was rumoured to have dressed as a woman. Meude-Monpas admitted having written the poem in question but denied that Aiguill... referred to the duke. The Chronique de Paris mentions this, sneeringly, and Wikipedia has taken at face value the 'revelation' that M-M was not of noble birth:

"The Marquis de Condorcet's Chronique de Paris jeered at him and reminded the public that Meude-Monpas was a self-styled "chevalier" - in fact the son of a master goldsmith in Paris, a Mr. Josse "who would be amazed to see his youngest son has become a gentleman-servant and a chevalier (knight) in spite of his ancestors ..."

Hmm. M Josse, goldsmith, was a bit part in Molière's L'Amour médecin. When asked what would be a suitable gift for Sganarelle to give his daughter, Josse suggests jewellery (which he happens to sell in his shop). Sganarelle's response became a proverb: 'Vous êtes orfèvre, monsieur Josse', refers to someone giving advice which isn't wholly disinterested. Too much of a coincidence that !00 years later the Chronique de Paris mentions a M. Josse, orfèvre - the chevalier de Meude-Monpas isn't all he claims to be. Perhaps. But there's little doubt that he was a mousquetaire noir.

[AuntDaisy]

...
"The Marquis de Condorcet's Chronique de Paris jeered at him and reminded the public that Meude-Monpas was a self-styled "chevalier" - in fact the son of a master goldsmith in Paris, a Mr. Josse "who would be amazed to see his youngest son has become a gentleman-servant and a chevalier (knight) in spite of his ancestors ..."
...

Whatever next? Petroc T isn't really a Squire?!

[Roger Webb]

The legend/rumour was that the duke had taken part in the Women's March that took place at the start of the French Revolution. Hence the Duke was rumoured to have dressed as a woman. Meude-Monpas admitted having written the poem in question but denied that Aiguill... referred to the duke. The Chronique de Paris mentions this, sneeringly, and Wikipedia has taken at face value the 'revelation' that M-M was not of noble birth:

"The Marquis de Condorcet's Chronique de Paris jeered at him and reminded the public that Meude-Monpas was a self-styled "chevalier" - in fact the son of a master goldsmith in Paris, a Mr. Josse "who would be amazed to see his youngest son has become a gentleman-servant and a chevalier (knight) in spite of his ancestors ..."

Hmm. M Josse, goldsmith, was a bit part in Molière's L'Amour médecin. When asked what would be a suitable gift for Sganarelle to give his daughter, Josse suggests jewellery (which he happens to sell in his shop). Sganarelle's response became a proverb: 'Vous êtes orfèvre, monsieur Josse', refers to someone giving advice which isn't wholly disinterested. Too much of a coincidence that !00 years later the Chronique de Paris mentions a M. Josse, orfèvre - the chevalier de Meude-Monpas isn't all he claims to be. Perhaps. But there's little doubt that he was a mousquetaire noir.

Thanks FF, I had read about the goldsmith paternity but not about its possible Molière origin, but there seems precious little about him as a musician, or about his life after he left France. As I said he went to London and died in Hamburg - I read somewhere in 1806...looking again online there seems very little else to be known about him.

[Roger Webb]

Whatever next? Petroc T isn't really a Squire?!

Or Lady Kate of Dereham not a real Lady!

[oddoneout]

Or Lady Kate of Dereham not a real Lady!

And nothing to do with Dereham

[LMcD]

Tuned in briefly this morning for the 7.00 a.m. news summary - long enough to learn that (a) Mahler's 2nd is 'a monumental wall of sound' (shades of Phil Spector) and (b) the next piece to be played would be Mozart's 'Ave Virum Corpus' (possibly that of the late Charles Atlas).

[Roger Webb]

Tuned in briefly this morning for the 7.00 a.m. news summary - long enough to learn that (a) Mahler's 2nd is 'a monumental wall of sound' (shades of Phil Spector) and (b) the next piece to be played would be Mozart's 'Ave Virum Corpus' (possibly that of the late Charles Atlas).

Or has 'Danish' stamped all over it!

[french frank]

Thanks FF, I had read about the goldsmith paternity but not about its possible Molière origin, but there seems precious little about him as a musician, or about his life after he left France. As I said he went to London and died in Hamburg - I read somewhere in 1806...looking again online there seems very little else to be known about him.

Briefly OT again, I discovered something called [WARNING!] Wikimonde with an article which says he was born on 16 March 1756, with a ref.to the Paris archives. This checks with a readily available digital image, yet the date of birth is missing from the Wikipedia article - and there is no article at all in the French Wikipédia. Lots to research here!
WARNING - an enquiry of Google AI says Wikimonde is a very new domain which is suspicious, imitating Wikipedia but designed to mislead.

[oddoneout]

Or has 'Danish' stamped all over it!

Well it is Breakfast...

[Roger Webb]

Briefly OT again, I discovered something called [WARNING!] Wikimonde with an article which says he was born on 16 March 1756, with a ref.to the Paris archives. This checks with a readily available digital image, yet the date of birth is missing from the Wikipedia article - and there is no article at all in the French Wikipédia. Lots to research here!
WARNING - an enquiry of Google AI says Wikimonde is a very new domain which is suspicious, imitating Wikipedia but designed to mislead.

Interesting. Haven't come across Wikimonde...I'll test it out with a few other lesser-known composers. I subscribe a modest amount monthly to Wikipedia and have contributed to/corrected (!) several articles....but in a lot of cases, as it's an amalgam of knowledge/opinion, it is still susceptible to inaccuracies - as AI overview is, to an even more degree......I have a long-running discussion with several YouTube posters about the operation of loudspeaker crossovers - most of those posting videos on the subject haven't the technical background to understand, let alone instruct others, on their operation...and they don't half get shirty when told how they actually work!....as they back-up their statements with endorsements from AI Overview!

[french frank]

The black musketeer is providing a rich vein of interest here. Given the number of his contemporaries who failed to note in their writings that he was of Black African origin, I wonder when the alternative fact was first published. The record is put straight in the See more ... to this YT of the VC No 4,

[Serial_Apologist]

The black musketeer is providing a rich vein of interest here. Given the number of his contemporaries who failed to note in their writings that he was of Black African origin, I wonder when the alternative fact was first published. The record is put straight in the See more ... to this YT of the VC No 4,

Did he arrive at Dover by inflatable rubber galleon?