Sunday Morning

[Serial_Apologist]

Top comment of the day!

Not quite...........

[Cockney Sparrow]

Meanwhile, over on Radio 4, they've just run an item promoting Radio 3's online offering, which is, I guess, better than being bombarded with more breaking news about traitors and dancers.

The presenters of the Today programme every day announce the option of what the listener can hear "over on Radio 3...". Sometimes more awkwardly/glibly than others, although I have never noticed anything smacking of enthusiasm. It also occurs with the same regularity at some other point in the R4 day - maybe with continuity leading into 2pm, I can't quite recall.

[smittims]

I've noticed what sounds like a prejuduce against classical music on Radio 4 and TV. I've even wondered if people were brought up to dislike it.

[french frank]

I've noticed what sounds like a prejuduce against classical music on Radio 4 and TV. I've even wondered if people were brought up to dislike it.

I think it's a chicken-and-egg situation. As popular music/pop expanded post-war, classical music was gradually pushed away from the mainstream. And when classical music lovers start complaining about pop music pushing out classical, they're condemned as snobs and elitists, with classical music being tarred with the same brush - music for snobs and elitists. And old people. If I shudder at the thought of a musical celebration of Julie Andrews' 90th birthday - what's wrong with me?

I can't find the quote online now (too long ago) but I do remember the young(er) Prince William saying something like: "God forbid that I should listen to classical music." So in spite of having parents who both enjoyed it, the son is reported now to prefer AC/DC's Thunderstruck, a taste he is passing on to his children.

[Ein Heldenleben]

I think it's a chicken-and-egg situation. As popular music/pop expanded post-war, classical music was gradually pushed away from the mainstream. And when classical music lovers start complaining about pop music pushing out classical, they're condemned as snobs and elitists, with classical music being tarred with the same brush - music for snobs and elitists. And old people. If I shudder at the thought of a musical celebration of Julie Andrews' 90th birthday - what's wrong with me?

I can't find the quote online now (too long ago) but I do remember the young(er) Prince William saying something like: "God forbid that I should listen to classical music." So in spite of having parents who both enjoyed it, the son is reported now to prefer AC/DC's Thunderstruck, a taste he is passing on to his children.

There’s nothing “wrong with you “ but isn’t you shuddering at a musical celebration of Julie Andrew’s 90th birthday pretty much the same as Prince William’s “God forbid ” comment ? With the difference that you said it and you have put in quotes his reported speech. It’s just possible he never said it,

[LMcD]

I've noticed what sounds like a prejuduce against classical music on Radio 4 and TV. I've even wondered if people were brought up to dislike it.

Some years ago, the producer of Ned Sherrin's 'Counterpoint', in which I was a contestant, told me 'We don't like music on Radio 4' - it was pretty clear from his tone and expression that (a) this was the official line and (b) he strongly disapproved of it.

[Ein Heldenleben]

Some years ago, the producer of Ned Sherrin's 'Counterpoint', in which I was a contestant, told me 'We don't like music on Radio 4' - it was pretty clear from his tone and expression that (a) this was the official line and (b) he strongly disapproved of it.

It’s more likely it’s because music , of whatever genre, carries huge personal preference with it. When people hear something they don’t like they switch off That’s why pop music stations spend a fortune testing their playlists to ensure people don’t turn off. On a largely speech service like Radio 4 you take a big risk playing any sort of music for any length of time.

[french frank]

There’s nothing “wrong with you “ but isn’t you shuddering at a musical celebration of Julie Andrew’s 90th birthday pretty much the same as Prince William’s “God forbid ” comment ? With the difference that you said it and you have put in quotes his reported speech. It’s just possible he never said it,

One difference between me and PW (only one?) might be that I was brought up on "little Julie Andrews" on the radio (was that on Educating Archie?), and the Sound of Music, neither in the least made me shudder at the time. But my tastes have modified, certainly grown narrower. If I still enjoyed musical theatre I would no doubt have enjoyed that FNIMN; if I enjoyed jazz, I'm sure I would enjoy much of the jazz on R3. My complaint is really that even the classical music programmes have changed to the point where they have little intellectual content by way of contextual material and the odd programmes or works now need hunting out, so I don't bother.

The situation is that the BBC wants to please as many people as possible as cheaply as possible and rolls this out across its entire empire. Radio 3 once filled a precious gap. Now it doesn't. Why?

Sorry, can't trace the original PW quote, but in case you doubt what I reported him to have said about his current tastes, the source here.

[Ein Heldenleben]

One difference between me and PW (only one?) might be that I was brought up on "little Julie Andrews" on the radio (was that on Educating Archie?), and the Sound of Music, neither in the least made me shudder at the time. But my tastes have modified, certainly grown narrower. If I still enjoyed musical theatre I would no doubt have enjoyed that FNIMN; if I enjoyed jazz, I'm sure I would enjoy much of the jazz on R3. My complaint is really that even the classical music programmes have changed to the point where they have little intellectual content by way of contextual material and the odd programmes or works now need hunting out, so I don't bother.

The situation is that the BBC wants to please as many people as possible as cheaply as possible and rolls this out across its entire empire. Radio 3 once filled a precious gap. Now it doesn't. Why?

Sorry, can't trace the original PW quote, but in case you doubt what I reported him to have said about his current tastes, the source here.

I don’t doubt your accurate “ re-quote.” I doubt the Ur-quote. Cosmopolitan ain’t the Times. Come to think of it the Times isn’t The Times these days.

[LMcD]

One difference between me and PW (only one?) might be that I was brought up on "little Julie Andrews" on the radio (was that on Educating Archie?), and the Sound of Music, neither in the least made me shudder at the time. But my tastes have modified, certainly grown narrower. If I still enjoyed musical theatre I would no doubt have enjoyed that FNIMN; if I enjoyed jazz, I'm sure I would enjoy much of the jazz on R3. My complaint is really that even the classical music programmes have changed to the point where they have little intellectual content by way of contextual material and the odd programmes or works now need hunting out, so I don't bother.

The situation is that the BBC wants to please as many people as possible as cheaply as possible and rolls this out across its entire empire. Radio 3 once filled a precious gap. Now it doesn't. Why?

Sorry, can't trace the original PW quote, but in case you doubt what I reported him to have said about his current tastes, the source here.

Julie was Archie's girlfriend.

[Ein Heldenleben]

Julie was Archie's girlfriend.

Which is pretty weird when you think about it as indeed is the whole idea of a ventriloquist on the radio…

[french frank]

I don’t doubt your accurate “ re-quote.” I doubt the Ur-quote. Cosmopolitan ain’t the Times. Come to think of it the Times isn’t The Times these days.

I'm trying to make substantive points here. The whole BBC has become - surely other people feel this? - a hotbed of triviality. We don't have to go on for days reporting about Prince Andrew (just the facts, once, not the continuing story of Prince Andrew - it takes about 2 seconds to get to the essential)), any more than there was a continuing crisis at Masterchef.

The BBC's understanding of the word 'entertainment' is that it will grab the attention of an uncritical mass of the population for as long as possible. And that's the policy as regards Radio 3. Get more people listening to R3 and it doesn't really matter what they listen to. Want a boost to evening concerts on Fridays?) R2 wants to get rid of FNIMN to get something more 'popular'? - shove it over to R3 where it will draw in more listeners to the evening slot. A 'perfect fit', says Sam Jackson, because it will notionally increase R3's overall reach with newly arrived listeners. Does the BBC ever ask me: "Are You Being Served?" (a reference to a popular BBC television show, m'lud).

At which point I note the fascinating etymological difference between the words entertainment and diversion, and take my leave.

[Ein Heldenleben]

I'm trying to make substantive points here. The whole BBC has become - surely other people feel this? - a hotbed of triviality. We don't have to go on for days reporting about Prince Andrew (just the facts, once, not the continuing story of Prince Andrew - it takes about 2 seconds to get to the essential)), any more than there was a continuing crisis at Masterchef.

The BBC's understanding of the word 'entertainment' is that it will grab the attention of an uncritical mass of the population for as long as possible. And that's the policy as regards Radio 3. Get more people listening to R3 and it doesn't really matter what they listen to. Want a boost to evening concerts on Fridays?) R2 wants to get rid of FNIMN to get something more 'popular'? - shove it over to R3 where it will draw in more listeners to the evening slot. A 'perfect fit', says Sam Jackson, because it will notionally increase R3's overall reach with newly arrived listeners. Does the BBC ever ask me: "Are You Being Served?" (a reference to a popular BBC television show, m'lud).

At which point I note the fascinating etymological difference between the words entertainment and diversion, and take my leave.

That argument stands or falls on whether FNIMN gets a higher audience than the slot average. I’m not sure it does. I’ve heard on the grapevine that the Met Opera relays do better You could argue that the big losers in the Radio 2 revamp are lovers of lighter classical / West End Broadway , jazz music who’ve lost a whole raft of programmes that used to be the staple of Radio 2 Alan Keith , Steve Race , Titchmarsh , David Jacobs , You and the Night and the Music , Round Midnight, Michael Parkinson all gone and not replaced.

[french frank]

That argument stands or falls on whether FNIMN gets a higher audience than the slot average. I’m not sure it does. I’ve heard on the grapevine that the Met Opera relays do better

That doesn't affect my argument. The argument was that that was the BBC aim, not that it was the (successful) result. Many R2 listeners won't have moved over to R3, and many R3 listeners will have given up listening. If you have another explanation as to why the BBC moved an R2 programme over to R3 rather than just dropping it if it wasn't felt to fit Nu-R2, I'd be interested to hear it. You may have privileged information: the BBC normally keeps individual programme figures secret - unless they can be presented as a huge success when they are widely publicised.

You could argue that the big losers in the Radio 2 revamp are lovers of lighter classical / West End Broadway , jazz music who’ve lost a whole raft of programmes that used to be the staple of Radio 2 Alan Keith , Steve Race , Titchmarsh , David Jacobs , You and the Night and the Music , Round Midnight, Michael Parkinson all gone and not replaced.

Yes, that would mean many R2 listeners lost out, but the discussion is about R3. What is the BBC up to? How does it see R3 developing?

[vinteuil]

You could argue that the big losers in the Radio 2 revamp are lovers of lighter classical / West End Broadway , jazz music who’ve lost a whole raft of programmes that used to be the staple of Radio 2 Alan Keith , Steve Race , Titchmarsh , David Jacobs , You and the Night and the Music , Round Midnight, Michael Parkinson all gone and not replaced.

... but why the fig should these things invade the tiny space available for classical music? Why the fig are they on radio 3 in the first place?? Why do we have to 'give way' to products for which there is apparently no room on their original, appropriate, channels - the Light Programme, Radio 2???



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