Essential Classics - The Continuing Debate

[LMcD]

L McD is quite right. I remember both programmes . 'Worker's Playtime' was hosted by Ted Ray. It is sometimes confused with 'Have a Go' which was hosted by Wilfred Pickles and his wife , Mabel. I remember the theme song from 'Have a go' but not 'Workers' Playtime'.

A propos of nothing in particular, the pianist in 'Have A Go' was Violet Carson, who went on to play Ena Sharples in Coronation Street, and Pickles was briefly employed as a BBC newsreader during World War 2.
I assume factory workers listened to the Coates while at their workbenches and then enjoyed Workers' Playtime while they ate their lunch.
There doesn't seem to be a home for Light Music these days, although some can occasionally be heard on FNiMN.

[hmvman]

I think with Eric Coates you reach the interesting point at which “light “ music becomes something more than that . Some his music e.g. The Dambusters March are , as pieces of music , better than some of the straight forward classical music played on R3 and deserve a playing. By better I mean finer tunes , cleverly constructed harmonic progressions - there’s a lovely cycle of fifths using sevenths in the March for example. If it’s not worthy of R3 why did Sir Adrian Boult bother to record one of the best versions?
Calling All Workers , the theme tune for Music while You work , is also of enormous historic significance - the show being created in the darkest days of 1940 when it looked like we were pretty much losing. It was vital to sustain morale in our industrial plants as the ability to out -produce the Nazis in everything from ball bearings to bombs was key to victory in a total war . It absolutely deserves a place on Radio 3.

Yes, agree. It's a fine line between lighter classical music and 'light music'. Elgar was a fan of Coates' music too - but that doesn't necessarily make it suitable for R3, I suppose!

[Master Jacques]

I think with Eric Coates you reach the interesting point at which “light “ music becomes something more than that . Some his music e.g. The Dambusters March are , as pieces of music , better than some of the straight forward classical music played on R3 and deserve a playing. By better I mean finer tunes , cleverly constructed harmonic progressions - there’s a lovely cycle of fifths using sevenths in the March for example. If it’s not worthy of R3 why did Sir Adrian Boult bother to record one of the best versions?

Wise words, that point certainly exists: Ketèlbey and Binge are another pair of so-called "light" composers who manage the trick frequently. The former's 'Appy 'Ampstead is a peerless miniature tone poem, with a chaotic complexity fully the equal of anything by the much-vaunted Ives; while Binge's Elizabethan Serenade is a contrapuntal marvel, juggling five themes over three minutes with virtuoso grace.

I firmly believe Binge's Symphony would be hailed as one of the great English symphonies, if only (1) he had called it 'Symphony in C minor' rather than 'Saturday Symphony', and (2) we didn't suffer from a terminal snobbery, fuelled by prejudice rather than musical substance. The gulf between these three composers and today's film mogul-magpies is immense.

[LMcD]

Wise words, that point certainly exists: Ketèlbey and Binge are another pair of so-called "light" composers who manage the trick frequently. The former's 'Appy 'Ampstead is a peerless miniature tone poem, with a chaotic complexity fully the equal of anything by the much-vaunted Ives; while Binge's Elizabethan Serenade is a contrapuntal marvel, juggling five themes over three minutes with virtuoso grace.

I firmly believe Binge's Symphony would be hailed as one of the great English symphonies, if only (1) he had called it 'Symphony in C minor' rather than 'Saturday Symphony', and (2) we didn't suffer from a terminal snobbery, fuelled by prejudice rather than musical substance. The gulf between these three composers and today's film mogul-magpies is immense.

Am I alone in thinking that most of John Williams's film scores sound very similar to most of his other film scores?

[oddoneout]

Yes, apologies. I remembered later that it was 'Music While You Work' that had 'Calling All Workers' as the theme.

Whether Coates' music is suitable for R3 is a discussion we've had before. Once upon a time it would've had a home on R2 but not anymore.

In view of what is now considered acceptable for broadcast on R3 it is hard to see why the likes of the good "light music" repertoire should now be excluded. It is at least well constructed so something for the analytic ear to get to grips with if so inclined, and pleasant to listen to. Unlike a lot of the stuff padding out the schedules in the name of "popular appeal", aka tick-boxing.
This links to my comment following watching the Betjeman "Queen's Realm" film, which used the kind of British music that just doesn't get aired these days ( along with most of the Classical and earlier repertoire, or so it seems to me) despite being better(IMO) and certainly more interesting than the aforementioned padding.

[french frank]

Whether Coates' music is suitable for R3 is a discussion we've had before. Once upon a time it would've had a home on R2 but not anymore.

And I think the point isn't about whether any one piece is or isn't 'appropriate' for Radio 3; nor whether any particular listener thinks a piece is a victim of snobbery. It's what has happened to Radio 3 as a whole, whether 6½ hours of presenter + snippets + other bits and pieces is really much better than CFM ("Our snippets are better than your snippets; and our presenters are much better than your presenters and as for our bits and pieces ..."). Some people will prefer Dan Walker and Alexander Armstrong.

Classical Live does have some longer pieces.

[AuntDaisy]

And I think the point isn't about whether any one piece is or isn't 'appropriate' for Radio 3; nor whether any particular listener thinks a piece is a victim of snobbery. It's what has happened to Radio 3 as a whole, whether 6½ hours of presenter + snippets + other bits and pieces is really much better than CFM ("Our snippets are better than your snippets; and our presenters are much better than your presenters and as for our bits and pieces ..."). Some people will prefer Dan Walker and Alexander Armstrong.

Classical Live does have some longer pieces.

... and (slightly) fewer adverts than CFM - although they're equally annoying.

[oddoneout]

Classical Live does have some longer pieces.

But trying to hear them is the equivalent of waiting for a country bus without a phone app to check where it is - hanging around for lengthy periods in the hopes that something in the timetable/schedule will materialise. Except of course "you can listen on Sounds", so it doesn't matter...

[LMcD]

But trying to hear them is the equivalent of waiting for a country bus without a phone app to check where it is - hanging around for lengthy periods in the hopes that something in the timetable/schedule will materialise. Except of course "you can listen on Sounds", so it doesn't matter...

Well put!

[antongould]

Skellers …… it would seem, sadly, for one day only …..

But all next week …

[Barbirollians]

Haven’t listened to it for ages but heavens it was grim this morning - Classic FM with slightly more upmarket interruptions from Mr Skelly.

[french frank]

Haven’t listened to it for ages but heavens it was grim this morning - Classic FM with slightly more upmarket interruptions from Mr Skelly.

Can't agree or disagree since I don't listen. But that fits with my view that a "good presenter" can't rescue a dire programme format. The aim is to be superficial and undemanding.

"Ian Skelly plays the best in classical music ..." Thirty-six pieces in three and a half hours? That's about 5 minutes devoted to each piece. If that captures 'the best in classical music' I'm a snowball .

An overture by Dvořák, a smattering of Ravel's Tombeau de Couperin, one aria from Vivaldi's Olimpiade, a Chopin Étude, a snatch of Mozart's K. 622, a phantasmagoria of Britten, Respighi, Haydn, Rachmaninov, Nielsen, Biber - ooh, quick, a snippet of Beethoven - Rossini, Purcell. None of these represented by a substantial work played in full.

What is definitely NOT 'the best in classical music' is the typical morsels by Stephen Sondheim, John Barry and Maurice Jarre.

What a waste of 210 minutes of Radio 3's airtime - and Ian Skelly's undoubted broadcasting skills.

If that isn't 'making simpler and less intellectually demanding in order to appeal to a broader audience' I don't know what is.

[oddoneout]

Can't agree or disagree since I don't listen. But that fits with my view that a "good presenter" can't rescue a dire programme format. The aim is to be superficial and undemanding.

"Ian Skelly plays the best in classical music ..." Thirty-six pieces in three and a half hours? That's about 5 minutes devoted to each piece. If that captures 'the best in classical music' I'm a snowball .

An overture by Dvořák, a smattering of Ravel's Tombeau de Couperin, one aria from Vivaldi's Olimpiade, a Chopin Étude, a snatch of Mozart's K. 622, a phantasmagoria of Britten, Respighi, Haydn, Rachmaninov, Nielsen, Biber - ooh, quick, a snippet of Beethoven - Rossini, Purcell. None of these represented by a substantial work played in full.

What is definitely NOT 'the best in classical music' is the typical morsels by Stephen Sondheim, John Barry and Maurice Jarre.

What a waste of 210 minutes of Radio 3's airtime - and Ian Skelly's undoubted broadcasting skills.

If that isn't 'making simpler and less intellectually demanding in order to appeal to a broader audience' I don't know what is.

And all the other 100s of minutes now spent on Jacko's refreshed format of bits'n'pieces.

[Ein Heldenleben]

Can't agree or disagree since I don't listen. But that fits with my view that a "good presenter" can't rescue a dire programme format. The aim is to be superficial and undemanding.

"Ian Skelly plays the best in classical music ..." Thirty-six pieces in three and a half hours? That's about 5 minutes devoted to each piece. If that captures 'the best in classical music' I'm a snowball .

An overture by Dvořák, a smattering of Ravel's Tombeau de Couperin, one aria from Vivaldi's Olimpiade, a Chopin Étude, a snatch of Mozart's K. 622, a phantasmagoria of Britten, Respighi, Haydn, Rachmaninov, Nielsen, Biber - ooh, quick, a snippet of Beethoven - Rossini, Purcell. None of these represented by a substantial work played in full.

What is definitely NOT 'the best in classical music' is the typical morsels by Stephen Sondheim, John Barry and Maurice Jarre.

What a waste of 210 minutes of Radio 3's airtime - and Ian Skelly's undoubted broadcasting skills.

If that isn't 'making simpler and less intellectually demanding in order to appeal to a broader audience' I don't know what is.

Lighten up FF - for me it made the tedious task of writing a filming schedule marginally more bearable and meant for two hours I didn’t have to get to make any conscious , energy- sapping decisions re music.

Though the otherwise immaculate Skellers has developed a habit of laughing at his own witticisms. Perhaps he should get what I believe is called in pop radio a “zoo.” ?

[vinteuil]

Lighten up FF -

... why the **** should she or any of us 'lighten up'.

If it's 'light' you want - over to Radio 2, the Light Programme.

It is precisely bicoz we don't wish to see Radio 3, a supposedly serious channel, diminish into the 'background muzak & bits' of the Light Programme, that this Forum exists

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