BaL 07.06.25 - Mussorgsky: Pictures at an exhibition

[Ein Heldenleben]

By a strange coincidence my old Boosey pocket score of the Ravel arrangement singles out the Great Gate and the Catacombs as moments which in the original cry out for orchestration. And yet for me they’re astounding studies in resonance in the original, whereas in even the best renditions of the Ravel I twiddle my thumbs a bit—in the Great Gate alone, there’s nothing an orchestra can do to match that scale hurtling downwards over pretty much the entire keyboard with the pedal down, the clattering bells of the original gain nothing and lose much from Ravel’s ‘Waldweben’ treatment, and the ringing dissonances of the last half a page or so must surely be unorchestratable.

The orchestra giveth and the orchestra taketh away. For me, compared to the best the piano discography has to offer, it’s mostly taketh away, as much as I loved the Ravel version as a nipper.

Good point that . Where the pianist plays unison descending octave scales (about 6 of them) the strings repeat some of them. It all sounds too lush and Mantovani- ish . The tinntabulation effect in the bars preceding is so much more telling on the piano and lovely to play. And as for the last two pages of block chords - if the piano doesn’t need tuning after a bash through it you’re not trying hard enough. Sadly one or two of the paintings are a beyond my draughtsmanship skills.

[LHC]

Yes, me too. You certainly felt at the end that Kviv had won the war....
Though there was the solemnity and sheer impact, felt in the whole hall you sensed, of the 'Catacombs', and its follow-up meditation.

Me three. Fabulous playing by Grosvenor and to follow up on Heldenleben's point, I suspect the Wigmore's Steinway will indeed need plenty of attention after that performance (Grosvenor's second encore probably finished off what was left of the piano after Kyiv's gate).

[silvestrione]

By a strange coincidence my old Boosey pocket score of the Ravel arrangement singles out the Great Gate and the Catacombs as moments which in the original cry out for orchestration. And yet for me they’re astounding studies in resonance in the original, whereas in even the best renditions of the Ravel I twiddle my thumbs a bit—in the Great Gate alone, there’s nothing an orchestra can do to match that scale hurtling downwards over pretty much the entire keyboard with the pedal down, the clattering bells of the original gain nothing and lose much from Ravel’s ‘Waldweben’ treatment, and the ringing dissonances of the last half a page or so must surely be unorchestratable.

The orchestra giveth and the orchestra taketh away. For me, compared to the best the piano discography has to offer, it’s mostly taketh away, as much as I loved the Ravel version as a nipper.

Oh hear hear, very eloquently put. The descending scale from Grosvenor was one of the most astounding things I've heard in the concert hall..
I now feel like I never want to hear the Ravel again!

[Pulcinella]

The Boosey and Hawkes pocket score (Number 32) includes both versions, with this rather splendid note.

In this miniature score the original piano version has been placed side by side with Ravel's score, thus providing a most useful opportunity for the study of modern orchestration.

[CallMePaul]

Claire Chevalier has recorded Pictures on a Becker piano of the type Musorgsky would have known and played. It has made me see the piece in a new light and would be my recommendation.

For me, Ravel's orchestration takes much of the Russian quality away from the original - I have seen it described (don't know where) as "French polishing". If an orchestral version is wanted, why do we rarely if ever hear one by a Russian (Tushmalev, Funtek or Ashkenazy perhaps)?

On a semantic note, the composer's name should be rendered as "Musorgsky" ot "Mussorgskiy" - there is only on "s" (Cyrillic looks like Roman "c") in the name and I assume that the double s was originally a German transliteration. Also, Pictures from an Exhibition" is a more accurate translation of the Russian title.

[Pulcinella]

From or at was a constant bugbear of former member Bryn, iirc.
The B&H score I referred to has Tableaux d'une exposition (presumably Ravel's title) and also Pictures from an exhibition (and indeed Quadros de una exposición!!).
It uses double s in Mussorgsky, but doesn't give any Russian title.

[oliver sudden]

On a semantic note, the composer's name should be rendered as "Musorgsky" ot "Mussorgskiy" - there is only on "s" (Cyrillic looks like Roman "c") in the name and I assume that the double s was originally a German transliteration.

Somewhat reminiscent of the T at the beginning of Tchaikovsky, with which we are also stuck

[Ein Heldenleben]

Oh hear hear, very eloquently put. The descending scale from Grosvenor was one of the most astounding things I've heard in the concert hall..
I now feel like I never want to hear the Ravel again!

I’ve never heard him live but from his live relayed performances like the Prom last year I honestly think he is one of the greatest pianists around . There’s no editing , no fakery, no hiding place it’s just as it was in the days of Liszt.
And boy are his scales good…

[Pulcinella]

Pretty thorough Wiki article here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pictures_at_an_Exhibition

[LHC]

Ben Grosvenor's recital was streamed on Wigmore Hall's YouTube channel and is available for anyone to watch and listen to.

[pastoralguy]

ICleveland/Knussen

I picked that up recently in the Oxfam music shop in Lancaster for 99p. Imho, it’s absolutely outstanding but an orchestration by Knussen would have been fascinating!

[richardfinegold]

For some reason, the Presto site doesn’t list the Emerson, Lake and Palmer recording 🤣

Is it nla?

[richardfinegold]

My roommate in college had the Ormandy recording and at the same time my sister purchased Toscanini on an RCA budget reissue. As a new record collector that was my education on the difference between stereo and mono.A few years later I purchased a Columbia cheapie that had SzellCleveland on one side and Richter from Sofia on the other. The vinyl was so warped that the Szell wouldn’t track but the Richter did. I listened to it dozens of times. Unfortunately now I can’t listen to an alternative piano recording that lacks spasms of coughing.
I recently acquired the Ormandy as part of a big box. It’s actually quite good. I had also recently ordered the big Szell box so perhaps I will get to hear it for first time. Reiner or Giuliani from Chicago have usually filled my need for the work but it’s been rarely heard here over the last 20 years or so.
I did hear Olga Kern play it in Detroit. I can’t imagine anyone outdoing that.

[MickyD]

Claire Chevalier has recorded Pictures on a Becker piano of the type Musorgsky would have known and played. It has made me see the piece in a new light and would be my recommendation.

For me, Ravel's orchestration takes much of the Russian quality away from the original - I have seen it described (don't know where) as "French polishing". If an orchestral version is wanted, why do we rarely if ever hear one by a Russian (Tushmalev, Funtek or Ashkenazy perhaps)?

On a semantic note, the composer's name should be rendered as "Musorgsky" ot "Mussorgskiy" - there is only on "s" (Cyrillic looks like Roman "c") in the name and I assume that the double s was originally a German transliteration. Also, Pictures from an Exhibition" is a more accurate translation of the Russian title.

Yes, I have that Chevalier disc as well, fascinating. I must give it another spin.

[Alison]

Ben Grosvenor's recital was streamed on Wigmore Hall's YouTube channel and is available for anyone to watch and listen to.

Thanks LHC, ideal for Bank Holiday listening. Phenomenal recital.
Well done to the three forumistas present 👍👍👍