BaL 18.10.25 - Ravel: Piano concerto in G major

[oliver sudden]

I think the cor anglais player could try harder at the end of that particular movement….

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0e2RIPSzCaY

Fair. Although my personal highlight on that front is a live Michelangeli with an Italian orchestra where the cor anglais player plays both the high C#s as splendid multiphonics.

[Maclintick]

Fair. Although my personal highlight on that front is a live Michelangeli with an Italian orchestra where the cor anglais player plays both the high C#s as splendid multiphonics.

No cor-blimey multiphonics here -- solo beautifully played by Mike Jeans at this 1982 RFH concert, which I attended.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WKy8jjmRvJA&list=RDWKy8jjmRvJA&start_radio=1

[silvestrione]

No cor-blimey multiphonics here -- solo beautifully played by Mike Jeans at this 1982 RFH concert, which I attended.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WKy8...&start_radio=1

Gosh yes, I enjoyed this, didn't know it existed. Always slightly disappointing when the soloist takes all the applause, even going off without giving a thought to the orchestra and the wind soloists in particular. But perhaps when he came back all that was put right.

[oliver sudden]

No cor-blimey multiphonics here -- solo beautifully played by Mike Jeans at this 1982 RFH concert, which I attended.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WKy8...&start_radio=1

It is indeed superb playing. But I wonder if Michelangeli is aware he’s supposed to be accompanying someone else’s solo at that point?

I suppose we can put that one down to whoever was at the faders… but what on earth is Michelangeli doing right at the end of the movement? Very strange.

[oliver sudden]

Fair. Although my personal highlight on that front is a live Michelangeli with an Italian orchestra where the cor anglais player plays both the high C#s as splendid multiphonics.

My memory was playing tricks... only the second one turns into a multiphonic. But it's certainly splendid.

https://youtu.be/jFV1uKqc4uo?si=eH9uOLQ25f5DLeic&t=480

(...and from 1952! Pretty pioneering in the multiphonic department.)

[Maclintick]

It is indeed superb playing. But I wonder if Michelangeli is aware he’s supposed to be accompanying someone else’s solo at that point?

I suppose we can put that one down to whoever was at the faders… but what on earth is Michelangeli doing right at the end of the movement? Very strange.

During the entire performance he seems incredibly aloof, locked-in, and on lugubrious auto-pilot here, compared to his classic HMV recording 25 years earlier, and yes, the ending of the slow movement is muffed. He played Books 1 & 2 of the Debussy Preludes at, respectively, the RFH and Barbican at around the same time, which were wonderful. From some other posters' comments, I should investigate Monique Haas's recording.

[Nick Armstrong]

Fell in love with the work thanks to Haas/Paray and the first Argerich/Abbado… I’ve heard countless versions since then. I have a personal aversion to pianists who stagger left and right hands in the introduction to the slow movement, presumably to emphasise the melody.

I could never share the enthusiasm for Zimerman/Boulez (that CD went back to the shop quite quickly).

I remember being very impressed by Yundi Li’s reading (with the Berlin Philharmonic and Ozawa I think) - must listen again, it’s been a while.

[Pulcinella]

Fell in love with the work thanks to Haas/Paray and the first Argerich/Abbado… I’ve heard countless versions since then. I have a personal aversion to pianists who stagger left and right hands in the introduction to the slow movement, presumably to emphasise the melody.

I could never share the enthusiasm for Zimerman/Boulez (that CD went back to the shop quite quickly).

I remember being very impressed by Yundi Li’s reading (with the Berlin Philharmonic and Ozawa I think) - must listen again, it’s been a while.

Are you sure they're not just following Ravel's notation (see my comment on an extract from the Wiki article above or below, depending on your display!)?

[Ein Heldenleben]

Are you sure they're not just following Ravel's notation (see my comment on an extract from the Wiki article above or below, depending on your display!)?

I think he deliberately staggers things - or at least confuses the beat - to give the impression of a jazz cocktail pianist playing a ballad. For such a simple piec3 of writing it’s very tricky to play. There’s a story that some one said to him “such a lovely tune.”:To which Ravel replied “that lovely tune took me two weeks of effort to write.”

[Pulcinella]

I think he deliberately staggers things - or at least confuses the beat - to give the impression of a jazz cocktail pianist playing a ballad. For such a simple piec3 of writing it’s very tricky to play. There’s a story that some one said to him “such a lovely tune.”:To which Ravel replied “that lovely tune took me two weeks of effort to write.”

Ah.....are you talking specifically about the Zimerman? I took Nick's comment to be more general, hence my reply.

[Ein Heldenleben]

Ah.....are you talking specifically about the Zimerman? I took Nick's comment to be more general, hence my reply.

No about the piece in general . Don’t know the Zimmerman . Must have a listen - he’s usually a hands reasonably together kind of player .

The worst is Pogorelich who actually separated the left and right hands of the arpeggios at the end of a live Schumann Fantasie I went to once .
Maybe cocktail pianist isn’t the right analogy for the slow movement - it’s a kind of drunken lopsided waltz

[oliver sudden]

There’s a story that some one said to him “such a lovely tune.”:To which Ravel replied “that lovely tune took me two weeks of effort to write.”

The version I have of this is that Marguerite Long herself complimented him on the melody’s huge flowing phrase (“grande phrase qui coule”), to which he replied "Flowing! But I wrote it a bar at a time and it nearly killed me!" ("Qui coule ! Mais je l’ai faite mesure par mesure et j’ai failli en crever !")

La Tribune did this in 2019 (I didn't hear it but the online database says they picked Zimerman/Boulez), and previously in 2011 (Argerich, BPO/Abbado, 1967).

[Pulcinella]

No about the piece in general . Don’t know the Zimmerman . Must have a listen - he’s usually a hands reasonably together kind of player .

The worst is Pogorelich who actually separated the left and right hands of the arpeggios at the end of a live Schumann Fantasie I went to once .
Maybe cocktail pianist isn’t the right analogy for the slow movement - it’s a kind of drunken lopsided waltz

But Ravel's notation is surely meant to give a staggered effect: very definitely 3/4 not 6/8 for the left hand underneath the long (two-week) melody.

[oliver sudden]

I think most early 20th century composers would have been surprised to hear today’s players slavishly playing everything simultaneously that’s written simultaneously. Betsy Jolas wrote a commentary on a CD of historical Debussy recordings where she tut-tutted at Marcelle Meyer spreading chords. Gosh, where did Meyer learn her Debussy from, one wonders, oh yes, that’s right, from Debussy.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1Rwz0rok2c8

[Ein Heldenleben]

The version I have of this is that Marguerite Long herself complimented him on the melody’s huge flowing phrase (“grande phrase qui coule”), to which he replied "Flowing! But I wrote it a bar at a time and it nearly killed me!" ("Qui coule ! Mais je l’ai faite mesure par mesure et j’ai failli en crever !")

La Tribune did this in 2019 (I didn't hear it but the online database says they picked Zimerman/Boulez), and previously in 2011 (Argerich, BPO/Abbado, 1967).

Your quote is more accurate !