What Classical Music Are You listening to Now? IV

[smittims]

Maybe it's in the mind of the hearer! I've always felt the opening of the slow movement is a very obvious quotation of the opening phrase of God Save the King.

[DoctorT]

Dvorak
Symphony no. 8
Prague Symphony Orchestra
Sir Charles Mackerras
As recommended on BaL

[Roger Webb]

Maybe it's in the mind of the hearer! I've always felt the opening of the slow movement is a very obvious quotation of the opening phrase of God Save the King.

In the same way, it's possible to hear the germ of an idea developed by Elgar for the 'theme' in the Enigma Variations in Mozart's 'Prague' Symphony slow movement. Quite a compelling argument may made for that as Elgar personally chose that Symphony to close the concert in which 'Enigma' was premiered.

[Pulcinella]

In his essay/program note on Haydn 98, Michael Steinberg (The Symphony, OUP) says:

Mozart's slow movements are often operatic; Haydn's sometimes suggest hymns. Haydn would in fact write music very much like this solemn Adagio for the prayer Seid nun gnädig (Be now merciful) in The Seasons. Tovey was the first to point out that both in the oratorio and the symphony Haydn moves into near-quotations from Mozart, the Quam olim Abrahae fugue from the Requiem in the former, and here a passage from the Andante of the Jupiter Symphony. Mozart had died on 5 December 1791, just a few weeks before Haydn began this symphony.In London it was a day so foggy that he had to light candles at eleven o'clock in the morning. The news from Vienna reached him about two weeks later; he wept.

Make of that what you will.

[Petrushka]

In the same way, it's possible to hear the germ of an idea developed by Elgar for the 'theme' in the Enigma Variations in Mozart's 'Prague' Symphony slow movement. Quite a compelling argument may made for that as Elgar personally chose that Symphony to close the concert in which 'Enigma' was premiered.

I think that one was put forward by Joseph Cooper (of Face the Music fame) but, for me, there does seem to be a strong affinity between Elgar's Enigma and Robert Schumann, especially the latter's Piano Concerto and the slow movement of the Symphony No 2.

[smittims]

I think the Enigma theme was knowingly derived from the Prague symphony slow movement phrase, and, for what it's worth, while we're mentioningn he Elgar Variations, I think the 'larger theme' tathe said 'goes' through and overthe whole set, was a 'jape', a hoax . Elgar loved puzzles and it would amuse him to get everyone guessing. There's an acoount that much later in life he was very annoyed with someone who claimed it was Auld Lang Syne. Elgar was notoriously prickly and easily offended, and I think he felt insulted that anyone should think of such a crass answer to what he intended to be an insoluble riddle. .

[frankbridge]

Here's something special

Georg Enesco

Oedipe: an opera in four acts

van Dam / Hendricks / Fassbaender / Lipovsek / Bacquier / Gedda / Courtis / Haupmann / Quilico / Aler / Vanauld / Albert

Orchestra PO de Monte Carlo / Foster

EMI CDS 754 011-2

What a stellar cast list, and I've got it! Trebles all round!

[Stanfordian]

Johann Adolf Hasse – Te Deum – Gloria – Regina coeli
Gloria, from the Mass in D minor
Te deum luadamus in G major (For the dedication of the Dresden Court Church)
Regina coeli in D major (Marian antiphon for Easter)
Brigitte Pfretzschner (alto); Andrea Ihle (soprano) & Armin Ude (tenor)
Dresdner Kapellknaben,
Members of Dresdner Staatskapelle / Konrad Wagner (Domkantor)
Recorded 1988, DDR Radio, Catholic Cathedral of the Holy Trinity, Dresden
Christophorus, CD

[cloughie]

Elgar Sym 2 SNO Boult - he and Barbirolli were arguably the best interpreters of Elgar - few had their understanding and terroir!

[Barbirollians]

Just taken delivery of that Somm set - look forward to listening to it.

[pastoralguy]

Elgar Sym 2 SNO Boult - he and Barbirolli were arguably the best interpreters of Elgar - few had their understanding and terroir!

I’ve got it too and am looking forward to hearing it properly over the next couple of days. (As opposed to my mobile‘phone at work!).

I may have mentioned that one of my first fiddle teachers played on those Boult sessions. The orchestra found him very good but extremely aloof. At one point, He commented to the orchestra ‘Gentleman - we need to help this section along as it was clearly written by Elgar’s char lady!’

[smittims]

I think knowing Elgar personally for nearly 30 years helped Boult's interpretations.

I've been comparing interpretations of the last six Mozart symphonies; increasingly I'm coming to prefer the non-HIPP to the HIPP (though the Hipp so far have been modern-istrument Hipp such as Abbado and Orchestra Mozart and Mackerras and the Prague C.O ad Scottish C.O. ). While the 'Early Music' or Hipp movement (whatever we call it) has put music lovers in their debt by reviving an incalculable mass of wonderful music from many centuries which would otherwise, I'm sure, be forgotten, I do think sometimes they get a little too 'religious' in following their self-imposed rules, such as always playing all the repeats, and insisting on a harpsichord, even when one can hear it twinging only occasionally.

I hadn't heard the famous Bruno Walter set for year and have been pleasantly surprised by it. Szell/Cleveland and Leinsdorf/ Boston have also valuable contributions. Herbert;'s mid-70s DG set is consistently satisfying. I knew his earlier EMI set and played it many times, but I think this is better stlll. There's an elegance and refinement here , though I have marvelled at Abbado's attention to detail in phrasing and articulation of the string parts, maybe stemming from his violin-playing past.

[cloughie]

I think knowing Elgar personally for nearly 30 years helped Boult's interpretations.

I've been comparing interpretations of the last six Mozart symphonies; increasingly I'm coming to prefer the non-HIPP to the HIPP (though the Hipp so far have been modern-istrument Hipp such as Abbado and Orchestra Mozart and Mackerras and the Prague C.O ad Scottish C.O. ). While the 'Early Music' or Hipp movement (whatever we call it) has put music lovers in their debt by reviving an incalculable mass of wonderful music from many centuries which would otherwise, I'm sure, be forgotten, I do think sometimes they get a little too 'religious' in following their self-imposed rules, such as always playing all the repeats, and insisting on a harpsichord, even when one can hear it twinging only occasionally.

I hadn't heard the famous Bruno Walter set for year and have been pleasantly surprised by it. Szell/Cleveland and Leinsdorf/ Boston have also valuable contributions. Herbert;'s mid-70s DG set is consistently satisfying. I knew his earlier EMI set and played it many times, but I think this is better stlll. There's an elegance and refinement here , though I have marvelled at Abbado's attention to detail in phrasing and articulation of the string parts, maybe stemming from his violin-playing past.

I think some of the earlier hipp versions were OK eg LCP Norrington, EC Pinnock and AAM Hogwood but some of the later ‘rattly timps and exaggerations of tempi are fabricated rather than authentic.

The Prague by Maag (LSO Decca) is still a long term favourite yardstick of mine aalong with an old WRC Jupiter (SL Collins).

[smittims]

Ah, yes, dear old Anthony Collins. I love his Mozart concertos with Friedrich Gulda. And there's s a 78 of the B flat symphony (no.33) on YouTube. He once said Mozart was his favourite composer.

I have the Hogwood/Schroeder set and appreciate its many qualities, but it's not the whole story , any more than Karajan was. .

[Roger Webb]

I think some of the earlier hipp versions were OK eg LCP Norrington, EC Pinnock and AAM Hogwood but some of the later ‘rattly timps and exaggerations of tempi are fabricated rather than authentic.

.

I tend to agree with you. In the early days of the 'Original Instrument' (as we used to call it) movement I was excited to hear those versions you mention...especially Pinnock's (one of the complete sym sets I have on CD), but tire of some of the more bizarre versions that have come along in recent years. There was a thread where we discussed Böhm's DG set a while back, and seems to be universally liked now, but at the peak time of the (so called) hipp movement 20 years ago or so, no one had a good word to say about it....and Karajan was just laughed at!...I have both LP and CD of his late syms.....still play them....oh, and Hogwood's magnificent series on LP - 20 years ago you had to be in one camp or the other, but not now I think.

And could we have a different term for an 'original instrument' perf other than Hipp...which seems to be used both for modern instruments, but played with due regard to historical performance practice, and for 'original instrument' performances.....perhaps just Hip (Historical Instrument Performance) for the latter....and take it as read that they'll be 'Informed' historically!