Originally posted by Petrushka
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What Classical Music Are You listening to Now? IV
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This is a sticky topic.
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Originally posted by Roger Webb View Post
Whilst browsing for your set, I found this which coincides with his second DG set which is probably my favourite set of Beethoven syms.... I wonder what this is like - you get two PCs as well, but no indication who the pianist was.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/315109035962
(Result of a bit of Googling: there are YouTube links to PC3 and PC5 1977 Karajan Tokyo.)
ベートーヴェン: ピアノ協奏曲 第3番 ハ短調 Op.37 アレクシス・ワイセンベルク (ピアノ) ヘルベルト・フォン・カラヤン(指揮) ベルリン・フィルハーモニー管弦楽団 1977年11月14日、東京 普門館におけるライブ録音 Ludwig van Beethoven: Piano Concerto No.3 ...
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Originally posted by Pulcinella View Post
Weissenberg?
(Result of a bit of Googling: there are YouTube links to PC3 and PC5 1977 Karajan Tokyo.)
ベートーヴェン: ピアノ協奏曲 第3番 ハ短調 Op.37 アレクシス・ワイセンベルク (ピアノ) ヘルベルト・フォン・カラヤン(指揮) ベルリン・フィルハーモニー管弦楽団 1977年11月14日、東京 普門館におけるライブ録音 Ludwig van Beethoven: Piano Concerto No.3 ...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ZPTDHtMqlw
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Originally posted by Petrushka View Posthttps://www.hraudio.net/showmusic.php?title=14220
This is the one. I can't seem to find it on ebay anymore.
I've also got the 1977 Tokyo cycle but the earlier one is much better. Both cost an arm and a leg (well an arm) but that doesn't matter to the geeky collector!
This is the one you have isn't it?
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Originally posted by Roger Webb View Post
Looks like radio broadcast doesn't it....and with Gundula Janowitz and Matti Talvela in the 9th.
This is the one you have isn't it?
(And my 12,000th post too!!)"The sound is the handwriting of the conductor" - Bernard Haitink
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Originally posted by Petrushka View PostFor a significant birthday, I recently purchased a set of the complete Beethoven symphonies given live in Tokyo in April 1966 by the Berlin Philharmonic and Herbert von Karajan. They are stereo SACD Hybrid discs and sound absolutely fantastic, way, way better than any of Karajan's official recorded cycles. The orchestra is beautifully balanced between strings, woodwind, brass and timpani in a very clear acoustic (the Bunkakaikan, Tokyo).
This is a complete revelation to anyone who knows only the officially recorded cycles and heads my list of Karajan/Beethoven recordings.
I bought it from an eBay seller in Japan and while it wasn't cheap, it's worth every penny.
If anyone is interested a quick Google search will find it.
I've played symphonies 4, 5, 6 and 7 so far.
The 63 set on Blu Ray has slowly become my go to set
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Originally posted by Petrushka View PostFor a significant birthday, I recently purchased a set of the complete Beethoven symphonies given live in Tokyo in April 1966 by the Berlin Philharmonic and Herbert von Karajan. They are stereo SACD Hybrid discs and sound absolutely fantastic, way, way better than any of Karajan's official recorded cycles. The orchestra is beautifully balanced between strings, woodwind, brass and timpani in a very clear acoustic (the Bunkakaikan, Tokyo).
This is a complete revelation to anyone who knows only the officially recorded cycles and heads my list of Karajan/Beethoven recordings.
I bought it from an eBay seller in Japan and while it wasn't cheap, it's worth every penny.
If anyone is interested a quick Google search will find it.
I've played symphonies 4, 5, 6 and 7 so far.
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Originally posted by richardfinegold View Post
I was unable to find this after a quick search. If someone could provide the actual link I would be grateful.
The 63 set on Blu Ray has slowly become my go to set
Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Karajan Berliner Philharmoniker Tour in Japan 1966 Beethoven Symphonies 5cd 2019 at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!
Or this.....
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Originally posted by Roger Webb View Post
Thanks Pulcinella, I'm wondering if these '77 and the '66 syms are taken from radio broadcasts...I can just see a Tokyo FM sticker on the '77 box. As for the '66 set I'm not sure Japan had stereo FM back then...we didn't. Interesting though.
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This might be a good place to discuss the merits of the Karajan sixties vs seventies cycle. I remember the critical response to the later set was somewhat mixed. There was a lot of “why did he bother “ “he sounds on autopilot “ written. I eventually got around to exploring and admiring the earlier set.
I picked up a second hand CD of 5/6 from the seventies set and was hugely impressed. The orchestra sounds just that much more potent and it strike me as mannered in the least. I also streamed the 9th from the seventies and was similarly impressed.
The live Karajan recordings that I have obtained from St. Laurent studio, all dating from seventies FM broadcasts, have all impressed me for the energy that live performances have vs the studio performances. They are valuable supplements to the studio versions. So I might purchase the less costly seventies version on offer here.
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Originally posted by richardfinegold View Post
Thanks for the link and yes I am also concerned about the issue of stereo in 1966 in Japan. Perhaps Petrushka can help here?
To take the two sets in reverse, the 1977 Tokyo discs were recorded by Tokyo FM and, good as it is, does sound like a radio recording. It clearly sounds typical of the BPO of that time.
The 1966 set is issued by King International but, alas, the booklet is entirely in Japanese and there is no information as to exactly what these are. However, having said that, from the evidence of the performances themselves this is without doubt the Berlin Philharmonic. By 1966 the orchestra hadn't been fully 'Karajanised' with the rich, full string tone that became their hallmark. The woodwind, nicely balanced, are absolutely the BPO, especially oboe and flute. Also typical of the BPO is the crisp timpani attack. Comparison with the Cluytens cycle will show what I mean. Also notable are the absence of repeats which is usual for Karajan and familiar from his official cycles.
In sum, what I think we have in the 1966 set is a live recording of the concerts but not a radio broadcast. The sound is just too good to be derived from radio and would explain why they are in stereo. Is anyone with knowledge of Japanese practice able to confirm if this is the likely case? Whatever, it is a revelation.Last edited by Petrushka; 18-06-24, 12:54."The sound is the handwriting of the conductor" - Bernard Haitink
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Othmar Schoeck, Cello Concerto.
Schoeck was a Swiss composer, early 20th cent. romantic. His music has a gently-sighing melancholy , stemming from his personality, which involved him in unsatisfying love affairs. This concerto is a long-time favourite of mine. There's also a violin concerto and some songs.
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Originally posted by Petrushka View Post
Provenance is a vexed question when buying 'unofficial' recordings and I understand that.
To take the two sets in reverse, the 1977 Tokyo discs were recorded by Tokyo FM and, good as it is, does sound like a radio recording. It clearly sounds typical of the BPO of that time.
The 1966 set is issued by King International but, alas, the booklet is entirely in Japanese and there is no information as to exactly what these are. However, having said that, from the evidence of the performances themselves this is without doubt the Berlin Philharmonic. By 1966 the orchestra hadn't been fully 'Karajanised' with the rich, full string tone that became their hallmark. The woodwind, nicely balanced, are absolutely the BPO, especially oboe and flute. Also typical of the BPO is the crisp timpani attack. Comparison with the Cluytens cycle will show what I mean. Also notable are the absence of repeats which is usual for Karajan and familiar from his official cycles.
In sum, what I think we have in the 1966 set is a live recording of the concerts but not a radio broadcast. The sound is just too good to be derived from radio and would explain why they are in stereo. Is anyone with knowledge of Japanese practice able to confirm if this is the likely case? Whatever, it is a revelation.
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