What Classical Music Are You listening to Now? IV

[Barbirollians]

I remember buying this record on Lp when it was a mid-price issue. IIRC, Krebbers double dots a couple phrases in the slow movement which isn’t really what Brahms wrote. I must listen again to hear if my memory is false.

Yes - to my ears it does not quite hit the heights of the Krebbers/Haitink Beethoven Concerto.

[pastoralguy]

Yes - to my ears it does not quite hit the heights of the Krebbers/Haitink Beethoven Concerto.

Now that’s a very fine recording. Mrs. PG gave me the Krebbers box set to celebrate the birth of Jesus Christ a couple of years ago.

[richardfinegold]

Reportedly Phillips gave BH grief because Krebbers was just a Concertmaster and allotted limited session time

[Petrushka]

Reportedly Phillips gave BH grief because Krebbers was just a Concertmaster and allotted limited session time

There is something of a mystery behind those Krebbers/Haitink recordings of both the Brahms and Beethoven Violin Concertos.

Haitink recorded the Brahms with Szeryng in April 1973. It was recorded again, this time with Krebbers, just five months after Szeryng in September 1973.

There is a very similar situation regarding the Beethoven. Haitink recorded it with Szeryng in the same group of sessions as the Brahms in April 1973. The Concerto was recorded again, with Krebbers, on December 9 1974.

Does anyone have any information as to what was going on here? Philips wouldn't have been willing to waste money and resources on duplicating these recordings in direct competition with itself within such a short time. Was Szeryng or Haitink unhappy with the performances? Was someone proving difficult?

All of the recordings are included in the Haitink/Concertgebouw box and sound fine as far as I can judge. The whole thing seems bizarre.

[Pulcinella]

Was it traditional back then (and maybe even now) for the concertmaster to be the soloist in concert performances? I think it was in Boston.
Maybe someone somewhere decided that Krebbers deserved to be recorded.

[Petrushka]

Was it traditional back then (and maybe even now) for the concertmaster to be the soloist in concert performances? I think it was in Boston.
Maybe someone somewhere decided that Krebbers deserved to be recorded.

Herman Krebbers was a very fine violinist (his Heldenleben solo with Haitink is the best I know) and deserved to be recorded in these concertos - but doing the same ones that Szeryng had only just set down doesn't make sense whichever way you look at it. There's probably a story of prima donna antics and record company rows behind it.

Orchestra leaders and other players can occasionally step forward to the soloists spot in concert. I once saw Martin Milner perform the Elgar Violin Concerto (and Hugh Bean recorded the same piece) while I recall Maurice Murphy soloing in the Haydn Trumpet Concerto.

[smittims]

Martin Milner played the Sibelius concerto in Manchester only shortly after Itzhak Perlman had done so. I was in the same seat in the Free Trade Hall on both occasions and couldn't discern any difference in their performances: they were both superb.

All I know about the Krebbers Beethoven (I didn't know he'd done the Brahms until today) is my recollection of the Gramophone reviews, which , as far as I can recall, said he stood in for someone indisposed, though of course 'indisposed' can be a euphemnism for something else.

The Penguin Guide (1978) thought so highly of the Beethoven that they gave it a 'Rosette' award, the only recording of the concerto they honoured thus in that edition of the Guide. .

[Ian Thumwood]

Interested to read about reaction towards English composers abroad. I heard a Britten chamber piece for strings performed at an open air gig in Aix back in the late 90s and was surprised by the positive reaction. I usually hate Britten with a passion but this was pretty good.

i had an old music teacher friend who taught at Lyon Conservatoire and , although ge taught jazz drums, had commented on the fact that English composers were little known in the comservatoire. I got the impression that they do not take British classical music too seriously or have any interest in it except a kbowledgeable few who are passionate. It is just not considered.

As for VW, surely his music has gone out of vogue in uk ? Brit composers like James McMillan surely have a far more prominant profile these days ?

[smittims]

Ian, I sometimes wonder if you and I live on the same planet, let alone the same country.

Do please look at the available recordings and the frequency of Vaughan Williams broadcasts , and I'm sure you will see that VW has certainly not gone 'out of vogue' in the UK. In recent years there has been a considerable revival, and, besides the symphonies , several of the less--played works such as 'Dona Nobis Pacem' and 'Sancta Civitas' hace had new performances and recordings. Also, many of the works of his early maturity, such as The Garden of Proserpine, the Symphonic Impressions, and the C minor Piano quintet have been published, performed and recorded for the first time. CDs have appeared of his film music, played purely as music in its own right. An early quintet was played oin 'Through the Night' only the other day.

No disrespect to James MacMillan, but I don't think his music gets quite this attention at present.

[richardfinegold]

There is something of a mystery behind those Krebbers/Haitink recordings of both the Brahms and Beethoven Violin Concertos.

Haitink recorded the Brahms with Szeryng in April 1973. It was recorded again, this time with Krebbers, just five months after Szeryng in September 1973.

There is a very similar situation regarding the Beethoven. Haitink recorded it with Szeryng in the same group of sessions as the Brahms in April 1973. The Concerto was recorded again, with Krebbers, on December 9 1974.

Does anyone have any information as to what was going on here? Philips wouldn't have been willing to waste money and resources on duplicating these recordings in direct competition with itself within such a short time. Was Szeryng or Haitink unhappy with the performances? Was someone proving difficult?

All of the recordings are included in the Haitink/Concertgebouw box and sound fine as far as I can judge. The whole thing seems bizarre.

I didn’t realize that the recordings were made that close together. There is a reference in the book that Phillips viewed the Krebbers for the ‘local’ market; perhaps they thought there were enough Krebbers fans in the Netherlands, etc to justify the effort

[richardfinegold]

Was it traditional back then (and maybe even now) for the concertmaster to be the soloist in concert performances? I think it was in Boston.
Maybe someone somewhere decided that Krebbers deserved to be recorded.

I remember reading an interview with Haitink when had his divorce from Phillips that he really wanted to give Krebbers the opportunity and he had to fight for him. Yet I believe that that there was just a multi disc Krebbers box released, so apparently he did get a lot of time before the microphone.
Boston longtime concert master was Joseph Silverstein, who was then poached by Abravanel to Utah. He recorded extensively as a soloist and and a chamber musician. His playing is most easily obtainable from the discs recorded by DG of the Boston Symphony Chamber Players. Other musicians in that ensemble were MTT on piano and Dot Dwyer, the legendary BSO flautist. I have written before here that Silverstein was the uncle of a school mate and he came to speak and play to our primary school .
Other prominent concert masters that come to mind are: Michael Schuabe (sp.?) and Syzmon Goldberg of the Berlin PO; Arnold Rose and Willy Boskovsky of the VPO; and in the pre recorded era Joseph Joachim and Ferdinand David (collaborator with Mendelssohn on his VC), both of whom composed as well.

[richardfinegold]

Ian, I sometimes wonder if you and I live on the same planet, let alone the same country.

Do please look at the available recordings and the frequency of Vaughan Williams broadcasts , and I'm sure you will see that VW has certainly not gone 'out of vogue' in the UK. In recent years there has been a considerable revival, and, besides the symphonies , several of the less--played works such as 'Dona Nobis Pacem' and 'Sancta Civitas' hace had new performances and recordings. Also, many of the works of his early maturity, such as The Garden of Proserpine, the Symphonic Impressions, and the C minor Piano quintet have been published, performed and recorded for the first time. CDs have appeared of his film music, played purely as music in its own right. An early quintet was played oin 'Through the Night' only the other day.

No disrespect to James MacMillan, but I don't think his music gets quite this attention at present.

There does seem to be a lot of interest at least on recordings of RVW music from the UK. I would venture that he gets performed exponentially more often than during his lifetime.

[AuntDaisy]

"Weihnachten mit Dietrich Fischer-Dieskau" and "Weihnachtslieder - Christmas Songs" - Dietrich Fischer-Dieskau & Jörg Demus.
How much DFD is too much?

[Ian Thumwood]

Smittims

Just going from.my own experience of chatting with French colleagues. The responses i have had does bear out the remark about VW not being performed in Germany. I am not sure British classical composers have the same kudos in Europe as is rhe case in uk or US.

[smittims]

Oh,that is quite true. But I sometimes think that commentators in other countries 'dislike' music by British composers because of their opinions about Britain, i.e. it's more about politics than music, hence Britain getting low scores in the Eurovision Song Contest, and (not wanting to widen the debate again!) if Elgar isn't played in Greece its more to do with the Elgin Marbles than the quality of Elgar's music as music. .