Grace Williams (1906 - 1977): 7-11/7/25

[Serial_Apologist]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m002f9kb

Interesting composer: but do you like her music, or, as in my case, find some of it a bit leaden?

[Serial_Apologist]

Apologies: those transmission dates should be 7-11/7.25. Couldn't find me glasses!

[LMcD]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m002f9kb

Interesting composer: but do you like her music, or, as in my case, find some of it a bit leaden?

Yes, and no, respectively! None of the works on Lyrita SRCD 323 strikes me as leaden.

[Pulcinella]

Apologies: those transmission dates should be 7-11/7.25. Couldn't find me glasses!

Changed (one of the areas where I have Hostly access!).

[Serial_Apologist]

Changed (one of the areas where I have Hostly access!).

Thanks!

[Serial_Apologist]

Yes, and no, respectively! None of the works on Lyrita SRCD 323 strikes me as leaden.

I don't have them, so wouldn't know. I shall tune in, every day, waiting for the spark from Heaven to fall.

[Roger Webb]

................ None of the works on Lyrita SRCD 323 strikes me as leaden.

Er, nor me...or perhaps my Welsh speaking wife, and authority on all cultural things Welsh!

We've known Grace Williams' major works for many years (...SRCD 323 is the best, and most typical, introduction to her more popular works. Penillion, probably the most typically 'Welsh' work on the disc, translates the practice of improvised singing against another instrument (usually harp) which provides the traditional tunes for the singer. In Williams orchestral realisation a trumpet (a favourite instrument for her) stands in for the harp and different sections of the orchestra 'improvise' on its themes.

Without doubt the most played of her works are the Sea Sketches, the earliest work on the disc and, although Williams is portraying the sea that washes the South Wales coast, it reminds one of the North Sea, particularly that Aldeburgh beach!!

[Ian Thumwood]

I have never heard of Grace Williams but caught the programme this afternoon and felt it offered a good contrast to some of the other music played on Radio 3 this morning. In particular I am thinking about the excellent Bartok and Mahler tracks which were followed by the Elgar cello concerto- a composer I am not too fussed about. This was followed by a work by the American composer David Diamond . It did made me think about reputations and even more so when a Chopin waltz was played.


I anyone did a blindfold test , I am certain that most would consider Mahler, Bartok and Chopin as "great." I think that Elgar seems increasingly dated (not a fan ) whereas the Diamond work was proficient but not. profound . It was anachronistic and seemed to be to be like film music. I have never heard of Diamond and my impression was that his neglect was understandable.


This brings me to Grace Williams. I am unfamiliar with her but thought that the music that was played was excellent. I was really surprised by this. There has been a tendancy to praise British composers on this board and simultaneously an effort by some to denigrate female composers. The music I heard this afternoon resonated with me in a way Elgar doesn't . It was a big surprise for me and I was reminded of the recent debate about Louise Ferrenc .

I get bored with the merits if Clara Schumann and Fanny Mendelssohn being trotted out. In my opinion Grace Williams

[Ian Thumwood]

Grace Williams is far more interesting.

So where does she sit in the pantheon of great composers ? I have to say that she struck me as being underrated. Perhaps we need to give Clara and Fanny a break and a knowledge the likes of Frace Williams instead?

She is a new name to me and CofW made a good case for her music. It struck me as being in need of rediscovery in a way than the David Diamond work deserved it's fate. Last year I discovered Badiewizc and I am now coming around to thinking that we are perhaps overlooking those female composers whose work deserves wider recognition for the more obvious names. Why celebrate the second best Schumann or Mendelssohn when you have the very best Grace Williams ? The Sea Scape and Owen Glndwr compositions were terrific Not a Bartok, Mahler or Chopin but perhaps someone who could give Elgar a run for his money and far more talented and serious than Diamond.

[smittims]

As I get older I find less use for ranking composers, if only because they wrote different music at different times in response to different circumstances. And personal likes can cut across one's desire to be objective. I love Otto Klemperer's music much more than say Bartok or Messiaen, but I couldn't seriously put in a claim for him as a 'great' composer.

I do think Grace Williams' best music , such as Penillion, Rhiannon,and the second symphony . are works of substantial merit to set alongside those of her male contemporaries such as Rawsthorne and Britten.

[LMcD]

As I get older I find less use for ranking composers, if only because they wrote different music at different times in response to different circumstances. And personal likes can cut across one's desire to be objective. I love Otto Klemperer's music much more than say Bartok or Messiaen, but I couldn't seriously put in a claim for him as a 'great' composer.

I do think Grace Williams' best music , such as Penillion, Rhiannon,and the second symphony . are works of substantial merit to set alongside those of her male contemporaries such as Rawsthorne and Britten.

I couldn't agree more! The thought of being forced to sit through a whole Wagner opera, or more than a couple of minutes of Piazzolla, is frankly appalling, but who am I to assess their stature as composers? Michael Berkeley thinks J S Bach is God, but if I was forced to name my own choice it would always be, as it always has been, Mozart.
I'm sure Grace would have been delighted to read your second paragraph, but suspect that Benjamin's reaction would very probably have been, at the very least, a stony silence.

[oliver sudden]

Why celebrate the second best Schumann or Mendelssohn when you have the very best Grace Williams ?

Programmers constantly reaching for female composers who just happen to have familiar names certainly makes me somewhat impatient as well. (“Here we go again…Mahlerin, Schufrau, and Mendelstochter.”) But putting my fairness hat on, it’s also good to be reminded that we don’t need to search all that far to find female composers worth listening to.

[LMcD]

Programmers constantly reaching for female composers who just happen to have familiar names certainly makes me somewhat impatient as well. (“Here we go again…Mahlerin, Schufrau, and Mendelstochter.”) But putting my fairness hat on, it’s also good to be reminded that we don’t need to search all that far to find female composers worth listening to.

I think it's fair to say that there's been more than a little overcompensation of late in this area.

[Ian Thumwood]

My point was that, whilst some composers were great for a reason, the reputations of less familiar composers remains inconsistent. My examples struck me that Radio 3 was featuring music that could be interpreted in a more subjective fashion according to taste and which, in my opinion, struck gold with Grace Williams.

I love exploring the more unusual byways of music and was very enthusiastic about yesterday's programme. Missed today's as I had day surgery but the comment about Britten says it all for me about British music. I find him unlistenable and was not surprised when I first encountered critical comments about him for the first time. I do find it fascinating that really talented female composers emerged in 20th century and that they are certainly not examples of tokenism. Like so much music, some names like Mendelssohn and Schumann get too much truck whereas I am more inclined to think Grace Williams wrote music that spoke for itself and it is irrelevant whether these 20th century composers such as Williams were female. Her music is universal .

I just feel that the CofW showed that by 20th century we no longer need to differentiate between male and female composers.

[LMcD]

My point was that, whilst some composers were great for a reason, the reputations of less familiar composers remains inconsistent. My examples struck me that Radio 3 was featuring music that could be interpreted in a more subjective fashion according to taste and which, in my opinion, struck gold with Grace Williams.

I love exploring the more unusual byways of music and was very enthusiastic about yesterday's programme. Missed today's as I had day surgery but the comment about Britten says it all for me about British music. I find him unlistenable and was not surprised when I first encountered critical comments about him for the first time. I do find it fascinating that really talented female composers emerged in 20th century and that they are certainly not examples of tokenism. Like so much music, some names like Mendelssohn and Schumann get too much truck whereas I am more inclined to think Grace Williams wrote music that spoke for itself and it is irrelevant whether these 20th century composers such as Williams were female. Her music is universal .

I just feel that the CofW showed that by 20th century we no longer need to differentiate between male and female composers.

Never mind, eh?