Mahler - Bernstein recordings with VPO

[Ein Heldenleben]

A search of the VPO concert archive from Mahler's death in 1911 to 1938 is very interesting and lays to rest a few myths. Mahler's music was frequently performed by the VPO in the 1920s and 30s under a wide variety of conductors including, apart from Walter who naturally has the lion's share, Franz Schalk, Clemens Krauss, Richard Strauss, Willem Mengelberg, and Wilhelm Furtwängler (the First Symphony!) amongst the more famous conductors. Interesting to see Walter performing Das Lied with an alto and baritone!!

As is well known the Anschluss put a stop to Mahler performance but it pops up again, in June 1945, just after the end of the war. Uptake was a little sluggish until 1960 (interesting to note a Karajan Das Lied in 1960) with Kubelik, especially, performing a fair bit of Mahler.



https://www.wienerphilharmoniker.at/en/konzert-archiv

Absolutely fascinating - thanks . Mahler only conducted them 12 times - what I wouldn’t give to have been at one of those performances. As I recall there’s only a piano roll of Mahler performing two movements from the fourth and fifth with , if I remember correctly much flexibility of pulse - something that Lenny follows. I’ve also been listening to Fischer and Sinopoli in the 5th and 4th - fine performances but much more metrically strict.

[Petrushka]

And Bruno Walter !

A search of the VPO concert archive from Mahler's death in 1911 to 1938 is very interesting and lays to rest a few myths. Mahler's music was frequently performed by the VPO in the 1920s and 30s under a wide variety of conductors including, apart from Walter who naturally has the lion's share, Franz Schalk, Clemens Krauss, Richard Strauss, Willem Mengelberg, and Wilhelm Furtwängler (the First Symphony!) amongst the more famous conductors. Interesting to see Walter performing Das Lied with an alto and baritone!!

As is well known the Anschluss put a stop to Mahler performance but it pops up again, in June 1945, just after the end of the war. Uptake was a little sluggish until 1960 (interesting to note a Karajan Das Lied in 1960) with Kubelik, especially, performing a fair bit of Mahler.

https://www.wienerphilharmoniker.at/en/konzert-archiv

[Barbirollians]

Didn’t a PR person or journalist describe Bernstein as the “man who showed the Vienna Phil how to play Mahler”. To which one wag replied “ I thought Mahler showed the Vienna Phil how to play Mahler”!

And Bruno Walter !

[Ein Heldenleben]

Extraordinary, isn't it? A bit of a curate's egg, that cycle..... a very underwhelmig sym. no. 1, for example

He wouldn’t be my favoured choice . Extraordinary how even with perfectly competent conductors and a superb orchestra some performances of Mahler , for me , just don’t achieve lift off. That Bernstein Mahler 5 I only started half listening to - within 5 minutes I was riveted . It might just initially have been the exceptional trumpet playing but after a while it was wondering what is Lenny going to do next ? And what he did, to my ears, did not have the self indulgence for which he is often criticised.The famous slow movement isn’t extravagantly slow by the standards of some conductors and not as slow as the recent live Proms repeat.

[Ein Heldenleben]

Hmmm...Marriage Made in Heaven. I can’t get the image out of my mind of the VPO concertmaster explaining to Bernstein that the music of Mahler is scheissmusik. Otoh, I have recently bought the Brahms and Beethoven sets by these musicians and yes, they do have a rapport.

Didn’t a PR person or journalist describe Bernstein as the “man who showed the Vienna Phil how to play Mahler”. To which one wag replied “ I thought Mahler showed the Vienna Phil how to play Mahler”!

[visualnickmos]

It's still astonishing that the only complete Mahler cycle from the VPO under a single conductor is the one with Lorin Maazel. You can, of course, construct your own VPO cycle a good few times over. Equally oddly, there's no VPO Bruckner cycle under a single conductor either.

Extraordinary, isn't it? A bit of a curate's egg, that cycle..... a very underwhelmig sym. no. 1, for example

[richardfinegold]

Thanks Petrushka - as I suspected there isn’t anything approaching a complete cycle . A shame because I think it was a marriage made in heaven though I’m very fond of the NY Phil Mahler 6. Thanks also for clearing up what symphonies the VPO do on the complete DG - it’s not possible to establish this from the Amazon photo/ blurb .

Hmmm...Marriage Made in Heaven. I can’t get the image out of my mind of the VPO concertmaster explaining to Bernstein that the music of Mahler is scheissmusik. Otoh, I have recently bought the Brahms and Beethoven sets by these musicians and yes, they do have a rapport.

[Petrushka]

That really surprises me ...

It's interesting too, from a check of the VPO concert archive, that Bernstein did, in fact, conduct them in all of the symphonies, lieder and Das Lied in concert. What a missed opportunity!

Perhaps the Austrian Radio have recordings of these concerts?

[Ein Heldenleben]

It's still astonishing that the only complete Mahler cycle from the VPO under a single conductor is the one with Lorin Maazel. You can, of course, construct your own VPO cycle a good few times over. Equally oddly, there's no VPO Bruckner cycle under a single conductor either.

That really surprises me ...

[Petrushka]

Thanks Petrushka - as I suspected there isn’t anything approaching a complete cycle . A shame because I think it was a marriage made in heaven though I’m very fond of the NY Phil Mahler 6. Thanks also for clearing up what symphonies the VPO do on the complete DG - it’s not possible to establish this from the Amazon photo/ blurb .

It's still astonishing that the only complete Mahler cycle from the VPO under a single conductor is the one with Lorin Maazel. You can, of course, construct your own VPO cycle a good few times over. Equally oddly, there's no VPO Bruckner cycle under a single conductor either.

[Ein Heldenleben]

The Unitel DVD set included the Resurrection with the LSO and Das Lied von der Erde with the Israel PO. Quite why they didn't stick with the VPO throughout is something of a mystery but perhaps Lenny wanted it that way.

The DG set includes Symphonies 5 & 6 and the 10th adagio only with the VPO but also an 8th that's taken from a live Salzburg performance (instead of the better sounding Unitel) after its inclusion following LB's death to fill the gap in the cycle.

There is also a 1966 Das Lied on Decca which is with the VPO.

Thanks Petrushka - as I suspected there isn’t anything approaching a complete cycle . A shame because I think it was a marriage made in heaven though I’m very fond of the NY Phil Mahler 6. Thanks also for clearing up what symphonies the VPO do on the complete DG - it’s not possible to establish this from the Amazon photo/ blurb .

[Petrushka]

As the forum must have the greatest collective knowledge of Mahler recordings to be found anywhere I was wondering whether , without going to a huge amount of trouble , any one knew exactly what symphonies Bernstein recorded with the Vienna Phil. What’s complicating the search is you can get different results for VPO , Vienna Philharmonic and Wiener Philharmoniker .
I’ve been listening to the DG CD Of Mahler 5 with them - absolutely magnificent (after the recent live Prom repeat of a different performance) . Keen to track down any more .I prefer their sound to the New York Phil tbh.
I know there is a DVD Unitel set sadly only partially completed I think.
Thanks in advance ...

The Unitel DVD set included the Resurrection with the LSO and Das Lied von der Erde with the Israel PO. Quite why they didn't stick with the VPO throughout is something of a mystery but perhaps Lenny wanted it that way.

The DG set includes Symphonies 5 & 6 and the 10th adagio only with the VPO but also an 8th that's taken from a live Salzburg performance (instead of the better sounding Unitel) after its inclusion following LB's death to fill the gap in the cycle.

There is also a 1966 Das Lied on Decca which is with the VPO.

[Ein Heldenleben]

As the forum must have the greatest collective knowledge of Mahler recordings to be found anywhere I was wondering whether , without going to a huge amount of trouble , any one knew exactly what symphonies Bernstein recorded with the Vienna Phil. What’s complicating the search is you can get different results for VPO , Vienna Philharmonic and Wiener Philharmoniker .
I’ve been listening to the DG CD Of Mahler 5 with them - absolutely magnificent (after the recent live Prom repeat of a different performance) . Keen to track down any more .I prefer their sound to the New York Phil tbh.
I know there is a DVD Unitel set sadly only partially completed I think.
Thanks in advance ...