Mahler 4 (i): is it 'about' anything ?

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Your #16 was a very good contribution, Ferney.

Thank you.

Was that spontaneous or have you previously researched it?

Neither, really, Flay: I know the work well, but I've never "analysed" it formally other than through listening to it with the score. I was inspired by the comments others had made yesterday (not least Panny's ) and "slept on it" last night. (Thank goodness you got "Baudelaire" for my AA before I went to bed! )
Some second thoughts: it's not really accurate to describe the first bars as being "in" B minor, as there is only the one chord (and that missing the D, which is the first note that the violins play as if "filling in" the chord). An extended chord vi is probably better.

Best Wishes.

[Ferretfancy]

31 Mahler messages and counting since last night, my God! they're at it again!

I do enjoy the 4th from time to time, if only because it's the nearest he got to Schubert.

[amateur51]

Ams, I'm glad to say I have never seen a Lidl. It's obvious our social spheres have been widely different (with apologies to Oscar).

You will, Panyan, you will (with apols to Mr Whistler)

They're taking over ... Lidl by Lidl

[Richard Tarleton]

31 Mahler messages and counting since last night, my God! they're at it again!

I do enjoy the 4th from time to time, if only because it's the nearest he got to Schubert.

The first live perf. I heard was with the LSO/Leinsdorf/Margaret Price , and was preceded by Schubert 8 and Shepherd on the Rock (Price/Leinsdorf/Brymer) - excellent programming.

[amateur51]

The first live perf. I heard was with the LSO/Leinsdorf/Margaret Price , and was preceded by Schubert 8 and Shepherd on the Rock (Price/Leinsdorf/Brymer) - excellent programming.

Wow!

[cloughie]

You will, Panyan, you will (with apols to Mr Whistler)

They're taking over ... Lidl by Lidl

Bid by bid.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

What are you thinking about when listening to the first movement of the Fourth ?

That's easy. I think of my budgerigar back in the 1960s. He got so excited when he heard Mahler 4 (and later other Mahler works) that we renamed him "Gustav".

[Alison]

31 Mahler messages and counting since last night, my God! they're at it again!

I do enjoy the 4th from time to time, if only because it's the nearest he got to Schubert.

On the contrary, I am rather weary of chat about Leveson, Dawkins, Breakfast
and Choral flipping Evensong. Aside from the recent Bychkov M 3 discussion I am struggling to
think of a recent Mahler topic !

[Osborn]

Music for budgies maybe (#37), but not for human consumption.

To be honest I think no. 4 has just about the most ghastly & sugary 1st mov.in the repertoire. And the last mov. is, well. bonkers.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

That's easy. I think of my budgerigar back in the 1960s. He got so excited when he heard Mahler 4 (and later other Mahler works) that we renamed him "Gustav".

Looking forward to a performance by Andrew Parrott, then, Alpie?

[EdgeleyRob]

Don't know what it's about but the 1st movement always makes me think of children playing outside in a park.

[Alison]

Music for budgies maybe (#37), but not for human consumption.

To be honest I think no. 4 has just about the most ghastly & sugary 1st mov.in the repertoire. And the last mov. is, well. bonkers.

The music is too sophisticated for you Chipping Campden folk, Ossie.

[mercia]

my Ladybird book of Mahler Symphonies seems to imply that number 4 ends in E major because that is the Baroque key representing Heaven. I'm not sure whether to believe that. Does "progressive tonality" just mean starting in one key and ending in another ?

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

my Ladybird book of Mahler Symphonies seems to imply that number 4 ends in E major because that is the Baroque key representing Heaven. I'm not sure whether to believe that.

New one on me, mercs, but, knowing some of those Baroque guys, it wouldn't surprise me. (Knowing Mahler, it wouldn't surprise me if this sort of thing was right uo his street if he ever heard of it. What does it say about G major?)

Does "progressive tonality" just mean starting in one key and ending in another ?

There's a long answer, talking about the range of subtle differences in the technique between composers, but the short answer is "Essentially, yes."

[jayne lee wilson]

Music for budgies maybe (#37), but not for human consumption.

To be honest I think no. 4 has just about the most ghastly & sugary 1st mov.in the repertoire. And the last mov. is, well. bonkers.

Well it's certainly not for the fainthearted. There there, best keep away from the terrifying thing.

Surprised no-one has mentioned Mengelberg's almost unsurpassable 1939 Amsterdam effort - such intensity and fluidity, shaping the paragraphs with remarkably natural rubato. "Definitive" perhaps? No such thing of course!

Markus Stenz tried to do something like it, in his own way, in a marvellous 2010 Gurzenich performance on Oehms;
and don't, whatever you do, forget Mackerras' live QEH one with the Philharmonia issued in 2010. A legend and a testament.