Grumble Thread

[Sir Velo]

Like speeding, though, these are hard rules to police/enforce.

Au contraire, they are in fact easy to police/enforce: it's just that the political will isn't there to do so. Motonormativity gone mad again I'm afraid!

[french frank]

Au contraire, they are in fact easy to police/enforce: it's just that the political will isn't there to do so. Motonormativity gone mad again I'm afraid!

I cannot see that this is rational. Creating laws is one thing. Preventing people from breaking them is another - that is what I would term policing/enforcing them. How do you stop any e-scooterists from jumping any of the traffic the lights in a town or city? Or prosecuting them if they do?

[Sir Velo]

I cannot see that this is rational. Creating laws is one thing. Preventing people from breaking them is another - that is what I would term policing/enforcing them. How do you stop any e-scooterists from jumping any of the traffic the lights in a town or city? Or prosecuting them if they do?

In your previous post you were referring to motoring offences. Now you have thrown in a straw man argument about e-scooterists for some reason

Of course you can prevent and/or enforce prosecution of motor offences. Any of the following actions for starters:

1. CCTV to capture offenders at junctions etc. Rigorous punishment will soon lead to the cessation of this dangerous activity.
2. Compulsory speed limiter technology to be retro fitted on all cars. The technology exists. It's only not implemented due to lack of political will.
3. Rigorous prosecution of offenders with automatic bans for repeat offenders. This would put a stop to it.
4. Mandatory resitting of driving test if exceeding 12 points on licence. Ditto.
5. No discretionary "exceptional hardship" pleas. Ditto.

From a policing perspective you make a concerted effort for a few months by dedicating resource to the enforcement of these laws. High profile prosections will soon instill a public awareness of the repercussions of transgression and behaviour will change accordingly. The fact that you don't see any of these actions as possible or desirable is an example of motonormativity where as a society we have been conditioned into accepting the risks and hazards of motor ownership as normal!

[kernelbogey]

'motonormativity'

I Iove it - (the word!).

[french frank]

In your previous post you were referring to motoring offences. Now you have thrown in a straw man argument about e-scooterists for some reason

We won't argue that point, I don't think mentioning road-using law-breaking e-scooterists as an analogy was a straw man. Only delicacy prevented me, in view of your pseudonym, naming cyclists rather than e-scooterists. All road-users are bound by the Highway Code but the cost of the measures you mention would in the end fall on the tax payers and car owners.

[James Wonnacott]

Highway Code, Rule 114:

"You MUST NOT[*]use front or rear fog lights unless visibility is seriously reduced. You MUST switch them off when visibility improves to avoid dazzling other road users

Can't think how many times I've opened the window and yelled "it's not foggy!" at people

[James Wonnacott]

And another thing--- Lorries with 200 megawatt lights on their roof (Ok, I exagerate a little)

[Serial_Apologist]

Some potentially unforseen consequences could well hang on the 20 mph limit being widely imposed on mainly urban roads and streets right now. You are coming up behind a parked bus or lorry. You hang back 20 yards, as once instructed to do, wait until the opposite lane appears safe for overtaking, and then do a quick spurt to get past before the driver indicates s/he is about to move out. In the olden days this move would be undertaken with prime intentions focused on getting past the obstruction as quickly as possible; today you'd prioritise eyes constantly on the speedometer to make sure you weren't exceeding that speed limit, rather than paying full attention to all the circumstances, such as pedestrians possibly emerging in front of the parked vehicle. It is also widely claimed that keeping to that 20 mph is extremely difficult in motor vehicles of today. I am sure pedestrians were far more self-aware regarding road safety before the advent of mobile phones and time-depriving job requirements and lifestyles.

[oddoneout]

Some potentially unforseen consequences could well hang on the 20 mph limit being widely imposed on mainly urban roads and streets right now. You are coming up behind a parked bus or lorry. You hang back 20 yards, as once instructed to do, wait until the opposite lane appears safe for overtaking, and then do a quick spurt to get past before the driver indicates s/he is about to move out. In the olden days this move would be undertaken with prime intentions focused on getting past the obstruction as quickly as possible; today you'd prioritise eyes constantly on the speedometer to make sure you weren't exceeding that speed limit, rather than paying full attention to all the circumstances, such as pedestrians possibly emerging in front of the parked vehicle. It is also widely claimed that keeping to that 20 mph is extremely difficult in motor vehicles of today. I am sure pedestrians were far more self-aware regarding road safety before the advent of mobile phones and time-depriving job requirements and lifestyles.

Is that likely to be more of a problem than at 30mph? At least in trying not to exceed 20 mph(how many motorists would actually be bothering though for the brief period involved?) during the manoeuvre, any impact on an unseen pedestrian will be at a lower speed than with a 30 mph limit - which is the purpose.
Is keeping to 20 mph actually a problem for modern vehicles - or is it the human at the wheel? Genuine query, as my car is 16 years old, so the fact I don't have a problem reining it in to keep to the lengthy 20 mph stretch through a nearby village could be due to its age - rather than my lack of an issue at travelling at that speed over that(somewhat difficult, hence 20 mph) stretch of road.

[LMcD]

The 'new-look' iWeekend has drastically reduced its coverage of radio listings to a random selection of highlights from various stations. Thank Heaven for Sounds, which has full details of tomorrow's European Christmas Music Fest.

[oddoneout]

The 'new-look' iWeekend has drastically reduced its coverage of radio listings to a random selection of highlights from various stations. Thank Heaven for Sounds, which has full details of tomorrow's European Christmas Music Fest.

The supplement in the local rag only ever had very basic listings, and then some years ago stopped even those so I took to noting, on the current day's TV page, details from the R3 online schedule. Now that R3 has been refreshed there is mostly nothing to note; Wigmore on Monday, perhaps an evening concert, and Sunday's 'riches', so the niggle of having to remember to make those notes before switching off the PC has largely gone...

[Dave2002]

*** intetrnet ....!!!! Yuk.

Trying to get information from the "internet" is becoming a complete pain, as either good information is not available or updated, but many other sites link or embed out dated information.

This is particularly problematic at this time of year, when shop/store opening times may change due to holidays, or weather etc. It may also affect other information, such as bin collection days.

To give an example - based very much on real life.

1. A restaurant puts up its opening times on a web site.
2. The restaurant becomes popular, so other sites link to it, or embed the details in their sites.
3. The restaurant [may] then change its opening times because of some current situation.
4. However the out of date information continues to be made available because so many other. sites have copied it.

Trying to search for the latest informaiton may turn out to be almost impossible - as searches have been "polluted" by all the other sites hanging on.

Another example is road closures - for example due to bridge closures and/or flooding. Again searches may turn out to be useless - and one can discover "interesting" facts, like the bridge was closed in September 2023,
or there was flooding in the area in June 2024, but that's not what one really wants to know.

Over the last few weeks we have had a few incidents like these - turning up to places which according to one web site should have been open, but weren't - as we had somehow expected based on patterrns from previous years!
[However we had half expected that, and had alternative and backup plans - some of which actually worked!!!!]

Grrr!

OK - I'm an old fogey, and don't trust the "internet" much at all!

[oddoneout]

*** intetrnet ....!!!! Yuk.

Trying to get information from the "internet" is becoming a complete pain, as either good information is not available or updated, but many other sites link or embed out dated information.

This is particularly problematic at this time of year, when shop/store opening times may change due to holidays, or weather etc. It may also affect other information, such as bin collection days.

To give an example - based very much on real life.

1. A restaurant puts up its opening times on a web site.
2. The restaurant becomes popular, so other sites link to it, or embed the details in their sites.
3. The restaurant [may] then change its opening times because of some current situation.
4. However the out of date information continues to be made available because so many other. sites have copied it.

Trying to search for the latest informaiton may turn out to be almost impossible - as searches have been "polluted" by all the other sites hanging on.

Another example is road closures - for example due to bridge closures and/or flooding. Again searches may turn out to be useless - and one can discover "interesting" facts, like the bridge was closed in September 2023,
or there was flooding in the area in June 2024, but that's not what one really wants to know.

Over the last few weeks we have had a few incidents like these - turning up to places which according to one web site should have been open, but weren't - as we had somehow expected based on patterrns from previous years!
[However we had half expected that, and had alternative and backup plans - some of which actually worked!!!!]

Grrr!

OK - I'm an old fogey, and don't trust the "internet" much at all!

That sounds familiar. With venues I have learned to go to the place's own website to stand a better chance of correct information - although that is dependent on them bothering to keep it up to date, which I gather now isn't always given priority as "everyone" uses social media which is quick and easy for anyone to update.
In terms of things like infrastructure it's one of those cases of having to know what you're looking for, eg are road closures local or national highways and what do they call themselves/what information gizmo are they using this month. Currently there is some national information set up which involves a lot of faffing and time to get to the right locality and sort out what the symbols mean and what the actual details(dates, times etc) are - and then trusting that they are correct/up to date, which hasn't always been my experience. I sometimes think it wouldn't take any longer just to sally forth with a plan B and hope for the best as I don't go any distance these days. Also, over the last year the majority of the(many)road works in and around town have either been emergencies eg collapsed sewers, or seemingly not notified in advance anyway, so I've got used to finding that my usual routes are compromised. Again, that's seen as my fault for not using soshul meeja I imagine.
Something that wastes time in a search is when a date doesn't appear upfront, so it isn't immediately apparent that what you're seeing isn't of use to you. Some of that may be down to wanting to get clicks from having to visit a site to see it isn't of any use?

[Old Grumpy]

That sounds familiar. With venues I have learned to go to the place's own website to stand a better chance of correct information - although that is dependent on them bothering to keep it up to date, which I gather now isn't always given priority as "everyone" uses social media which is quick and easy for anyone to update.
In terms of things like infrastructure it's one of those cases of having to know what you're looking for, eg are road closures local or national highways and what do they call themselves/what information gizmo are they using this month. Currently there is some national information set up which involves a lot of faffing and time to get to the right locality and sort out what the symbols mean and what the actual details(dates, times etc) are - and then trusting that they are correct/up to date, which hasn't always been my experience. I sometimes think it wouldn't take any longer just to sally forth with a plan B and hope for the best as I don't go any distance these days. Also, over the last year the majority of the(many)road works in and around town have either been emergencies eg collapsed sewers, or seemingly not notified in advance anyway, so I've got used to finding that my usual routes are compromised. Again, that's seen as my fault for not using soshul meeja I imagine.
Something that wastes time in a search is when a date doesn't appear upfront, so it isn't immediately apparent that what you're seeing isn't of use to you. Some of that may be down to wanting to get clicks from having to visit a site to see it isn't of any use?

Amen to all of that! One of the most annoying is looking for a named pub or hotel, clicking on what looks like their website and finding it takes you to a third party booking site rather than the pub/hotel itself.

[Dave2002]

I used to like the internet - and I was pretty much an early adopter. Now I've very much more cautious and sceptical. A lot of this so-called AI stuff is dreadful - one way or another.