What do we do now we are happy?

[Guest]

What do we do now, now that we are happy?

BBC Radio 3 - Free Thinking - 2013 Festival - How on Earth Can We Cope with Less?

[Serial_Apologist]

"In a world of diminishing natural resources, global economic crisis and constant pressure on time, how does not having enough shape the way we think and act?" goes the introduction to the accompanying blurb. Probably not at all, yet, I should think - one good reason being that the above statement is a bit of a generalisation: some do have enough - even I!

I'm not exactly supporting capitalism by admitting so - but maybe this is the wrong question.

[Flosshilde]

Capitalism & the consumer society is built on the concept of 'not having enough' - formerly known as 'keeping up with the jones's'. If we didn't constantly want more the whole thing would crash. Yes, most of us have enough - quite a few have more than enough - but we are encouraged to want more, & encouraged in the belief that until we get more we won't be happy.

[Serial_Apologist]

Capitalism & the consumer society is built on the concept of 'not having enough' - formerly known as 'keeping up with the jones's'. If we didn't constantly want more the whole thing would crash. Yes, most of us have enough - quite a few have more than enough - but we are encouraged to want more, & encouraged in the belief that until we get more we won't be happy.

A way of maintaining a mass consciousness based in infantilism and envy essentially to stop people thinking things could be done differently.

[Flosshilde]

Upon reflection, I would beg to differ. Capitalism is an economic system based on private ownership of the means of production and capital goods, and the production of goods and services for profit in a market economy. Whether we, individually and collectively, have enough is a separate question. Perhaps too much! A capitalist would tend to argue that accumulating more capital is a good thing, but to what end? It is a judgement I suspect that we all have to make for ourselves. In Kantian terms, I ought, therefore I can.

As for the consumer society, it emerged in the late seventeenth century and intensified throughout the eighteenth century. While some claim that change was propelled by the growing middle class who embraced new ideas about luxury consumption and the growing importance of fashion as an arbiter for purchasing rather than necessity, many critics argue that consumerism was a political and economic necessity for the reproduction of capitalist competition for markets and profits. Others point to the increasing political strength of international working class organisations during a rapid increase in technological productivity and decline in necessary scarcity as a catalyst to develop a consumer culture based on therapeutic entertainments, including classical music, not to mention home ownership and debt.

Which is basically what I said.

what do we do now, now that we are happy?

What is 'happiness', & who decides that 'we' are happy? To claim that we (I assume the entire population - of the UK? of Europe? of the world? is included in 'we') are happy is rather a nonsense.

[Serial_Apologist]

Upon reflection, I would beg to differ. Capitalism is an economic system based on private ownership of the means of production and capital goods, and the production of goods and services for profit in a market economy. Whether we, individually and collectively, have enough is a separate question.

Too much or too little is a variable depending on the economic cycle's tendency to perpetual over and underproduction, inseparable from how much we have, need or want, so I disagree.

Perhaps too much! A capitalist would tend to argue that accumulating more capital is a good thing, but to what end? It is a judgement I suspect that we all have to make for ourselves. In Kantian terms, I ought, therefore I can.

No - to safeguarding his (for it mostly "his") own privileged position and that of his investers, friends and family in relation to a society unsustainably built on fluctuating demand and the encouragement of greed and envy.

As for the consumer society, it emerged in the late seventeenth century and intensified throughout the eighteenth century. While some claim that change was propelled by the growing middle class who embraced new ideas about luxury consumption and the growing importance of fashion as an arbiter for purchasing rather than necessity, many critics argue that consumerism was a political and economic necessity for the reproduction of capitalist competition for markets and profits. Others point to the increasing political strength of international working class organisations during a rapid increase in technological productivity and decline in necessary scarcity as a catalyst to develop a consumer culture based on therapeutic entertainments, including classical music, not to mention home ownership and debt.

Interestingly the ruling class was forced to consider working class inclusion in consumption, and has fashioned the market by enveigling working class people into acquiescing in the social status quo then bashing them for greedily outpricing themselves from jobs!

I would argue that 'keeping up with the jones's' is neither here nor there. Human beings have evolved over millions of years to be competitive, so one might simply want to keep up with Flosshilde instead! As for infantilism and envy, contemporary society is full of infantilism and envy, but as one of the greatest capitalists, Cosimo de Medici once remarked, envy is a plant I shall not water. Of course, things can always be done differently, even without free thinking. If we are all waiting for Godot, for example, it is worth asking, as Philip Dodd asked during the discussion, what do we do now, now that we are happy?

I take your word for it.

[jean]

Interestingly the ruling class was forced to consider working class inclusion in consumption, and has fashioned the market by enveigling working class people into acquiescing in the social status quo ...

False consciousness again...

[teamsaint]

A way of maintaining a mass consciousness based in infantilism and envy essentially to stop people thinking things could be done differently.

The over used concept of scarcity is a key weapon in the armoury, I think.

Some things are scarce. Many are artificially scarce.

[Beef Oven!]

False consciousness again...

That ol' chestnut again!

[teamsaint]

So we are not happy? According to Ludwig Wittgenstein, hell isn't other people. Hell is yourself.

People like this agree.

http://www.mind-your-reality.com/tania_kotsos.html

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

... the hardest victory is over self.

... because the terms of the peace treaty are so draconian.

[umslopogaas]

Reading these posts -admittedly after a couple of large vodkas - reminds me of a novel I once read about a dystopic future (yes, there are a lot of those). In this one, the happy rich minority were allowed to live lives of beautiful, minimalist austerity where they had just enough of everything to meet their needs. The unhappy poor majority were condemned to consume imposed, enormous quotas of stuff to keep the fires of capitalism burning. Does anyone know it, and what was the title?

[teamsaint]

bb, someone has stolen your post #11 !!

[Flosshilde]

I should perhaps clarify that when I started posting here before the Free Thinking Festival last weekend, my pictures, my posts and my online functionality started to disappear, without any explanation. I realised, of course, why, but to avoid any further complaints, I decided to delete my replies instead. So if you are quick, you will see my reply, but it is unlikely to last. No offence should be taken! I am just being pragmatic. If you wish to capture a post, I can only suggest that you quote it in full before it is inevitably deleted.

There was a complaint about your posts; I've no idea why the complainant didn't like them, I've seen far worse that have been allowed to remain.

[teamsaint]

well its a shame that bb's post #11 has gone.