Hearing

[Dave2002]

An interesting article - https://getpocket.com/explore/item/t...o-in-your-head

[ardcarp]

Fascinating article Dave. Thanks so much for posting it up
The eye is not just a camera (it has been realised for some time) and what we actually 'see' is heavily processed by the brain.
I reckon the same applies to the ear, i.e. not just a microphone. It's extraordinary how one can be unaware of a sound (e.g. passing traffic or a striking clock) if your brain is focused on something else.
It was particularly interesting to read of possible future medical remedies for old-age hearing loss.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

This is indeed a fascinating topic. There are many hearing issues that affect people. Hearing loss is the most damaging. A year ago, I was effectively deaf in my right ear, but as it nothing more serious than a temporary blockage, the problem resolved itself after 3-4 months. Scary though!

I have had very good hearing, but suffer from Cocktail Party Syndrome, which is the inability to differentiate sounds in a noisy environment. Most people can filter out the sounds they don't want to hear, when at a noisy party, but for those who can't, it can be difficult to communicate. Lip reading helps, but it doesn't necessarily solve the problem. Shopping malls can driving you mad, with all the conflicting sounds. The only options may be to try to shut out all sounds, or to avoid such places.

https://mysoundtherapy.com/us/what-is-sound-therapy/tinnitus-hearing/background-noise-discrimination/

[eighthobstruction]

This is indeed a fascinating topic. There are many hearing issues that affect people. Hearing loss is the most damaging. A year ago, I was effectively deaf in my right ear, but as it nothing more serious than a temporary blockage, the problem resolved itself after 3-4 months. Scary though!

I have had very good hearing, but suffer from Cocktail Party Syndrome, which is the inability to differentiate sounds in a noisy environment. Most people can filter out the sounds they don't want to hear, when at a noisy party, but for those who can't, it can be difficult to communicate. Lip reading helps, but it doesn't necessarily solve the problem. Shopping malls can driving you mad, with all the conflicting sounds. The only options may be to try to shut out all sounds, or to avoid such places.


https://mysoundtherapy.com/us/what-i...iscrimination/

....yes I too suffer from this if people don't talk 'properly', or if people are moving around when they talk. The number of times I have to say pardon (while people seem to make no effort toi improve what they have said) is embarassing.
....I am about to read Daves article....but may i say one thing....I suffer from what i call Ghost Digital Noise....most obvious is the hearing of sirens and vehicle hazard noises which continue for minutes after the vehicle is gone . Secondly and most disconcerting is all the different noises which come out of phones and public and home games machines....they seem to have entered some sort of core of me. a cacophony of competeing digital sounds....i do not think it is tinitus -and you are the first people i have ever spoken of it. I have always had cognition problems (really, who'd have guessed ho ho)....but these noises create an anxious soup.

[ardcarp]

Sorry to hear about the problem, Eighth. It is an illustration of how much the brain is involved in perception of sound and sometimes in creating its own.
As for Cocktail Party Syndrome, just enjoy the cocktails, Alps! But seriously it is a tricky problem and I know several people who have it in varying degrees. Sometimes it is worse when people wear a hearing aid for the first time, but I gather modern devices are more sophisticated. Some even have a 'music' setting which allows enjoyment of music without any distortion.

I found this: https://www.entandaudiologynews.com/...ate-of-affairs

It's probably dangerous to say so, but, in my early seventies, I still have pretty good hearing (including high frequencies). But I have a friend who is mad about birds, and sadly he is losing the high frequency bit meaning some aspects of birdsong are now lost to him.

[Beresford]

Yes, the lark ascending now does so silently, alas, although occasionally I hear snatches. Test tones on the hifi disappear at 6-7Khz. And now I can only hear ordinary talking if background noise levels are low, and the ability to follow two conversations at once, which I could do in my 20's, has definitely gone. All age-related. Let's hope Discriminating Wisdom has made up for it!!

[Ein Heldenleben]

A very interesting article - good to see some optimism that there might be some way of ameliorating hearing loss through gene therapy at some point. That really would be a medical miracle. I am sure most on the forum take great care but I really regret listening on headphones (particularly on trains ) in youth . Also I was occupationally exposed to high sound levels before limiters were , quite sensibly introduced . The result - tinnitus which definitely affects music enjoyment . It also makes playing the piano loudly a bit tricky. Interestingly when I had my ears tested the frequency response was better in the tinnitus affected ear .

[gradus]

I've always wondered why some hi-fi reviewers who describe the sound of equipment in language that does not lend itself to measurement, never publish their audiologists reports so that we can judge whether their subjective judgements about sound derive from an impeccable extended hearing range, or like the rest of us, from something rather less impressive.

[richardfinegold]

An interesting article - https://getpocket.com/explore/item/t...o-in-your-head

It is. Thank you

[jayne lee wilson]

I've always wondered why some hi-fi reviewers who describe the sound of equipment in language that does not lend itself to measurement, never publish their audiologists reports so that we can judge whether their subjective judgements about sound derive from an impeccable extended hearing range, or like the rest of us, from something rather less impressive.

....one reason why HiFiNews always includes test bench measurements, and carefully tries to correlate them with the subjective listening comments.

[Quarky]

An interesting article - https://getpocket.com/explore/item/t...o-in-your-head

A very interesting article. there seems to be a lot of very technical papers on this subject and brain processing. This is one of the more digestible::

https://dsp.stackexchange.com/questions/24522/does-our-brain-constantly-ifft-to-hear/24525

[Dave2002]

This is indeed a fascinating topic. There are many hearing issues that affect people. Hearing loss is the most damaging. A year ago, I was effectively deaf in my right ear, but as it nothing more serious than a temporary blockage, the problem resolved itself after 3-4 months. Scary though!

I have from time to time suffered from wax in my ears. Slight temporary deafness is bearable, but near complete deafness is scary. I have had that for short periods - hopefully due to blockages, so no major permanent damage. Clearly some people do go deaf. I would have been really worried if severe deafness lasted for 3 or 4 months.

[Quarky]

......just surfing......stem cells for hearing loss.....https://www.soundrelief.com/stem-cel...20hair%20cells.

""Over 25,000 hair cells exist in the cochlea, an organ in the inner ear. These cells are extremely important to the process of hearing, as they detect and respond to sound, transmitting nerve signals to the brain. Unfortunately, hair cells are also sensitive and unable to regenerate. Exposure to loud noises, aging, infections, and drugs can all inflict permanent damage on these vital structures.

Research on stem cells and hearing loss has focused on the potential for stem cells to develop and function as hair cells......""

[Ein Heldenleben]

I've always wondered why some hi-fi reviewers who describe the sound of equipment in language that does not lend itself to measurement, never publish their audiologists reports so that we can judge whether their subjective judgements about sound derive from an impeccable extended hearing range, or like the rest of us, from something rather less impressive.

All hearing tests really measure is hearing range and if within that range there are any dips . To be honest I’m not sure whether being to help really High frequencies really helps that much in assessing audio quality . I reckon if you were to test the hearing range of fifty year old orchestral musicians , conductors and especially sound engineers you might well find them worse than average for their age - particularly if they’ve done any Rock recording or Concerts. You would be surprised at the levels even classical music recording is monitored at. The levels at which rock is recorded / monitored are literally excruciating and possibly one of the reasons I now have ringing in my left lughole...

[gradus]

All hearing tests really measure is hearing range and if within that range there are any dips . To be honest I’m not sure whether being to help really High frequencies really helps that much in assessing audio quality . I reckon if you were to test the hearing range of fifty year old orchestral musicians , conductors and especially sound engineers you might well find them worse than average for their age - particularly if they’ve done any Rock recording or Concerts. You would be surprised at the levels even classical music recording is monitored at. The levels at which rock is recorded / monitored are literally excruciating and possibly one of the reasons I now have ringing in my left lughole...

Hearing loss in industry was tolerated for too long and its no surprise that all musicians can suffer too.
I don't know if normal hearing has peaks or troughs, but either way, I don't think loudspeakers are flat across the audible range so our psycho-acoustic processing seems pretty complicated and referenced to what when judging natural sound quality for classical recordings?