Ukraine

[Boilk]

Last week I was joking with a friend about putting up Ukrainian refugees in confiscated Eaton Square flats - now , incredibly, it appears to be Govt policy.

And last week I joked to a work colleague that generic Russophobia was becoming so entrenched in every aspect of the mainstream media that before long we could see supermarkets renaming Chicken Kiev as Chicken Kyiv - now it's happening

[Ein Heldenleben]

And last week I joked to a work colleague that generic Russophobia was becoming so entrenched in every aspect of the mainstream media that before long we could see supermarkets renaming Chicken Kiev as Chicken Kyiv - now it's happening

I don’t see how clearing the supermarket shelves of Russian goods helps any one. Note my post up thread on the virtue signalling Hock ban in WW1 that had Siegfried Sassoon MC and his officer friend wryly amused during a much deserved break from the fighting…

[french frank]

I don’t see how clearing the supermarket shelves of Russian goods helps any one. Note my post up thread on the virtue signalling Hock ban in WW1 that had Siegfried Sassoon MC and his officer friend wryly amused during a much deserved break from the fighting…

Though renaming Chicken Kiev as Chicken Kyiv does have a point, I think …

[Petrushka]

Though renaming Chicken Kiev as Chicken Kyiv does have a point, I think …

Many years ago I had a Chicken Kiev in Moscow - at the Ukraina Hotel.

[Ein Heldenleben]

Though renaming Chicken Kiev as Chicken Kyiv does have a point, I think …

I just don’t see it makes much difference when strategists are trying to work out whether Putin will go nuclear if he loses
But if it makes you feel better how about on a musical point renaming Tschaikovsky’s “Little Russia “ symphony , which features Ukrainian folk songs “The Ukrainian “ ?

[french frank]

I just don’t see it makes much difference

There isn't a lot we can do to 'make a difference'. I'm not sure that mass protests on the streets make much of a difference. Both are ways of speaking out.

[Ein Heldenleben]

There isn't a lot we can do to 'make a difference'. I'm not sure that mass protests on the streets make much of a difference. Both are ways of speaking out.

There’s a lot we could do.,
What would make a difference is supporting charities giving humanitarian aid to the displaced.
And in my view , though I suspect not everyone’s, not complaining at the tax and price increases which will inevitably result from all this. In the 80’s around 4 to 5 % of UK GDP went on defence . Now it’s 2 % . I suspect it will pretty soon be 3 % whatever the government is. And that will impact on all other areas of government spending.,
We could also support independent journalism produced by the BBC, ITV and SKY , the TIMES and GUARDIAN rather than slurring them with the tag mainstream media.

[RichardB]

I'm not sure that mass protests on the streets make much of a difference.

How much of a difference do they need to make for it to be worth taking part? If I were in Ukraine now, I think my will to continue resisting might well be strengthened by seeing that people all over the world are raising their voices in support. And especially people in Russia. As I've said here before, I remember Nelson Mandela thanking the British people (and pointedly not the British government) for making their voices heard against apartheid. We can all point at examples of protests that had no impact outside the solidarity and morale of participants (although those are important too), but we can equally point at examples where they did (for example in the ending of the Milošević regime). How much of a difference is there between staying at home and saying it makes no difference, and going out to demonstrate just in case it might?

[Ein Heldenleben]

How much of a difference do they need to make for it to be worth taking part? If I were in Ukraine now, I think my will to continue resisting might well be strengthened by seeing that people all over the world are raising their voices in support. And especially people in Russia. As I've said here before, I remember Nelson Mandela thanking the British people (and pointedly not the British government) for making their voices heard against apartheid. We can all point at examples of protests that had no impact outside the solidarity and morale of participants (although those are important too), but we can equally point at examples where they did (for example in the ending of the Milošević regime). How much of a difference is there between staying at home and saying it makes no difference, and going out to demonstrate just in case it might?

Yes I do think protests make a difference or at least more of a difference than rebranding Chicken. They particularly make a difference if news of them gets back to the Ukrainians and the Russians . That’s why what’s happening to independent journalism in those countries is so important . BBC news services have been taken off the internet. Journalists in Russia face imprisonment for speaking the truth - the BBC Moscow desk has been stood down as it’s too risky for them to operate .The BBC World Service has been taken off the internet in Ukraine and is relying on short wave senders .And in the final dastardly act a SKY crew has been shot at and one journo wounded. Targeting of journalists was a tactic used in Syria and indeed in drug cartel run Mexico.

[eighthobstruction]

....Banal utterance/observation....while the cities are a mass of debris and rubble....majority of refugee operations situation seem to be scrupulously clean and free of litter [given the amount of fast food etc being given out]....

....also the bushes next to that Russian convoy outside Kyiv must be taking a battering....

[Maclintick]

There’s a lot we could do.,
What would make a difference is supporting charities giving humanitarian aid to the displaced.
And in my view , though I suspect not everyone’s, not complaining at the tax and price increases which will inevitably result from all this. In the 80’s around 4 to 5 % of UK GDP went on defence . Now it’s 2 % . I suspect it will pretty soon be 3 % whatever the government is. And that will impact on all other areas of government spending.,
We could also support independent journalism produced by the BBC, ITV and SKY , the TIMES and GUARDIAN rather than slurring them with the tag mainstream media.

I agree with much of this, but ways must be found so that the extra tax and price increases do not fall heaviest on those who can least afford them. Unfortunately, for the last 12 years we're been saddled with governments which have ensured that the reverse is true.

[Ein Heldenleben]

I agree with much of this, but ways must be found so that the extra tax and price increases do not fall heaviest on those who can least afford them. Unfortunately, for the last 12 years we're been saddled with governments which have ensured that the reverse is true.

Absolutely - that might also help with the other side issue that diverted us yesterday . The use of company formation not only for anonymity but also for tax avoidance / minimisation . One reason I didn’t go down the Ltd co route was I realised it was a way of just avoiding National Insurance ( and pushing the saving into the hands of the accountants ) . Ok I’m not exactly an oligarch but every little helps …

[Joseph K]

Courtesy of Yanis Varoufakis's facebook page...

[Boilk]

I just don’t see it makes much difference when strategists are trying to work out whether Putin will go nuclear if he loses
But if it makes you feel better how about on a musical point renaming Tschaikovsky’s “Little Russia “ symphony , which features Ukrainian folk songs “The Ukrainian “ ?

Upcoming recordings/performances of Pictures at an Exhibition will now no doubt end with The Great Gate of Kyiv.

[Ein Heldenleben]

Courtesy of Yanis Varoufakis's facebook page...

I don’t recall the phrase “useful idiots” being used in relation to any of those events though I do recall a wide ranging debate about at least two of them (not the NATO expansion - no one seemed to care one way or t’other) . I am very much a NATO supporter but I thought Afghanistan was a waste of time and very unlikely to reduce terrorist activity. I also had misgivings about letting the Baltic States into NATO.Mainly because they are of no strategic value and in the case Of Lithuania many of its population behaved despicably to their Jewish population in WW2(mind you so did a lot of other NATO members )
The phrase “useful idiots “ is attributed to Lenin and refers to West based pro Soviet Intellectuals but there’s no evidence he actually used it.
That’s the problem with all this - more straw men.