Tristan und Isolde - The Listening Service

[JasonPalmer]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b07xhfcz

How do you listen to a four-hour opera? Tom Service considers the extraordinary impact of Wagner's opera Tristan und Isolde, a medieval romance that became in Wagner's hands a highly-charged erotic drama of unfulfilled longing. It scandalised and over-excited early audiences in the 1860s, and it still has a profound effect on listeners. How come? Tom explores the influence of the philosopher Schopenhauer on Wagner's thinking, and how the composer's own love-life may have influenced this piece. And musicologist Kenneth Hamilton takes Tom through the radical musical structures in this piece, which somehow manage to remain unresolved over long stretches of music. Did one special chord really change music forever?

Very interesting, I had no idea it had been so scandalous !

[smittims]

The first Tristan died shortly after singing the role, giving rise to a superstition that the work was jinxed. It's said (I don't know if any witnesses were present) that Eugene Ysaye threw his shoes in the fire when he got home from hearing it, as he couldn't face the mundane task of unlacing them. And of course , the music reverberates in many subsequent works, such as Chausson's Symphonie and Franck's Quartette.

There used to be a book called 'A Hundred Years of Tristan' which tells all this, and more. But like many legendary musical works of 'originality' 'Tristan und Isolde' does owe debts to previous composers. There's a passage a few minutes into Schumann's 'Fantasy in C' which reappears almost note for note in the prelude to Act One, and indeed as I listen more and more to Schumann I find more and more Wagner in it: the final cadence of the Fantasy, for instance, is surely an ancestor of the final cadence at the end of Act Three.

[Petrushka]

The first Tristan died shortly after singing the role, giving rise to a superstition that the work was jinxed. It's said (I don't know if any witnesses were present) that Eugene Ysaye threw his shoes in the fire when he got home from hearing it, as he couldn't face the mundane task of unlacing them. And of course , the music reverberates in many subsequent works, such as Chausson's Symphonie and Franck's Quartette.

There used to be a book called 'A Hundred Years of Tristan' which tells all this, and more. But like many legendary musical works of 'originality' 'Tristan und Isolde' does owe debts to previous composers. There's a passage a few minutes into Schumann's 'Fantasy in C' which reappears almost note for note in the prelude to Act One, and indeed as I listen more and more to Schumann I find more and more Wagner in it: the final cadence of the Fantasy, for instance, is surely an ancestor of the final cadence at the end of Act Three.

The book mentioned is 'The First Hundred Years of Wagner's Tristan' by E.L. Zuckerman. I read a library copy many years ago and it's a pity that it's no longer available. Considering that another 57 years has gone by perhaps it could do with being updated and reissued.

Incidentally, and this might have been mentioned in the programme (I didn't listen), the music of Tristan has some remarkable similarities to Berlioz's Romeo and Juliet.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

It isn’t the “special chord” that’s so significant. It’s the way that Wagner manipulates the emotions by constantly avoiding full harmonic resolution of any progressions until the final bars of the opera. Dissonances (including that first one) are resolved individually, but so briefly that it can seem otherwise. The playing of a quick tonic chord, at the end of each act, is so perfunctory that it feels unresolved throughout the theatrical interval that follows.

[Ein Heldenleben]

It isn’t the “special chord” that’s so significant. It’s the way that Wagner manipulates the emotions by constantly avoiding full harmonic resolution of any progressions until the final bars of the opera. Dissonances (including that first one) are resolved individually, but so briefly that it can seem otherwise. The playing of a quick tonic chord, at the end of each act, is so perfunctory that it feels unresolved throughout the theatrical interval that follows.

Is it true to say that almost from the first bar there are swathes of the opera where it’s more or less impossible to establish what the key is ? I know there are passages of Liszt that are similar but this lack of tonal centre goes on for minute after minute . Those constantly interrupted cadences , the insistent chromaticism in Act 1 and Act 3 - all this must have made for uncomfortable listening - even for devotees. Probably the most revolutionary piece of 19th century music unless the Eroica is permitted. Exactly 50 years since I first heard it at Covent Garden -it made such a profound impression I went back two days later.
That Tristan chord occurs note for note the same Beethoven’s Aflat op.26 piano sonata first movement - but LVB resolves it,

[smittims]

Thanks for the correct title, Petrushka. My memory may have been deflected by Gerald Abraham's 'A Hundred years of Music'.

I'm sure Wagner listened to 'Romeo et Juliette' with attention and profit.

[RichardB]

It isn’t the “special chord” that’s so significant. It’s the way that Wagner manipulates the emotions by constantly avoiding full harmonic resolution of any progressions until the final bars of the opera. Dissonances (including that first one) are resolved individually, but so briefly that it can seem otherwise. The playing of a quick tonic chord, at the end of each act, is so perfunctory that it feels unresolved throughout the theatrical interval that follows.

This is the most radical aspect of the opera and the one that's really unprecedented, as opposed to the opening harmony which as EH says isn't completely new, because the implication is that if you can delay the resolution of a tonal dissonance for the duration of an opera (of course both the delay and its eventual resolution are equally central to Wagner's concept) there is probably no need any longer to resolve it at all; and the rest is history.

[JasonPalmer]

A bit of googling reveals a Wagner blog http://wagnertripping.blogspot.com/2...e-stealer.html

I remember stiumbking across a bust of Wagner in Venice, the length of his operas puts me off, maybe something I will get to one day. Chandos have done his operas in English.

[smittims]

Have you tried the oft-repeated orchestral extracts, Jason ,long known as 'bleeding chunks'? They've been the most-used way of making Wagner digestible for many peoplel. One of the most popular is the Prelude and Liebestod from 'Tristan' lasting about 17 minutes.

I'm not an out-and-out Wagnerite but I do enjoy his music occasionally amd I always feel 'the old magic' stealing over me. He was a sort of magician in that respect.

[gradus]

As with much music I enjoy I somehow latch on to a part that gets through to me and build outwards from there. I wouldn't call it a method, it just works for me. With Tristan it was the Prelude and the writing for strings rushing upwards repeatedly as the tension increases - it still excites me. For tension you could cut with a knife, its Tristan's entrance in Act 1 especially in the Bohm/Bayreuth recording and for sheer dramatic force its the few bars of extraordinary orchestral writing after T and I have drunk the love potion.

[smittims]

Dramatically, it's interesting that the act one meeting is the only one of the three where they don't begin by addressing each other by name. People who know each other well don't usually do this.

[JasonPalmer]

Have you tried the oft-repeated orchestral extracts, Jason ,long known as 'bleeding chunks'? They've been the most-used way of making Wagner digestible for many peoplel. One of the most popular is the Prelude and Liebestod from 'Tristan' lasting about 17 minutes.

I'm not an out-and-out Wagnerite but I do enjoy his music occasionally amd I always feel 'the old magic' stealing over me. He was a sort of magician in that respect.

Oo interesting, I do like his overtures, am sure someone once said he has good 15 minutes...

[RichardB]

am sure someone once said he has good 15 minutes...

Not quite. It was Rossini who is reputed to have said that Wagner has beautiful moments but terrible quarter-hours.

[ChandlersFord]

A bit of googling reveals a Wagner blog http://wagnertripping.blogspot.com/2...e-stealer.html

I remember stiumbking across a bust of Wagner in Venice, the length of his operas puts me off, maybe something I will get to one day. Chandos have done his operas in English.

Andrew Porter’s english translation (which the Chandon, once EMI, set uses) is enjoyed by many German listeners, who take offence at Wagner’s frequently awful ‘poetry’. To my ears, though, Porter’s translation substitutes German doggerel for english windy pomposity. It’s full of english public school terms like ‘booby’ and (at the end of Rheingold) the extraordinary term ‘pernicious nixies!’ What’s a nixie? I’ve never heard of one, outside of this translation ....

The ‘Stabreim’ that Wagner used in his librettos is an essential part of the listening experience, I find. You’re not really getting ‘Wagner Proper’ without it ....

[Petrushka]

Andrew Porter’s english translation (which the Chandon, once EMI, set uses) is enjoyed by many German listeners, who take offence at Wagner’s frequently awful ‘poetry’. To my ears, though, Porter’s translation substitutes German doggerel for english windy pomposity. It’s full of english public school terms like ‘booby’ and (at the end of Rheingold) the extraordinary term ‘pernicious nixies!’ What’s a nixie? I’ve never heard of one, outside of this translation ....

The ‘Stabreim’ that Wagner used in his librettos is an essential part of the listening experience, I find. You’re not really getting ‘Wagner Proper’ without it ....

The original German is 'Verwünschte Nicker' which is usually translated as 'Accursed water sprites' or something like that. Now there's no way that Wotan's meaning can be conveyed in sung English to fit the music and Porter's solution is a very good one indeed. In German mythology a water sprite is a Nixie.

https://www.britannica.com/topic/nix-German-mythology