Worse news still?

[french frank]

Oh, Johnny Foreigner has infiltrated the ranks? Awfully Bad Show!

I've no objection. Just meant that with the lower age range too the denizens of the Radio 3 Facebook page don't appear to be representative of the Radio 3 audience. Every time people click on a button somewhere it gives them a boost in the ticker stream. Can't think why else some people 'like' every photo that appears on the page. I'm so mean I won't even 'like' the page, still less anything else. Unless someone is being grumpy

[Anna]

Just meant that with the lower age range too the denizens of the Radio 3 Facebook page don't appear to be representative of the Radio 3 audience.

But, then this begs the question: Are the lower age group really the new listeners and us "golden oldies" who remember the 80s the has-beens? Or is it we just cannot be asked to sign up to FB. How can they tell? I've been listening to R3 for around 11 years, it is my station of choice, but no-one knows I'm listening, no-one has ever asked me ..... so I don't count

[french frank]

But, then this begs the question: Are the lower age group really the new listeners and us "golden oldies" who remember the 80s the has-beens? Or is it we just cannot be asked to sign up to FB. How can they tell? I've been listening to R3 for around 11 years, it is my station of choice, but no-one knows I'm listening, no-one has ever asked me ..... so I don't count

They will know from the RAJAR data the average age of the audience. Judging from this forum, I'd guess that the 'old' listeners don't go away: they still listen and grumble about the things they don't like. So the average age won't descend to 25-34 for a few years - if ever.

With statistics what you have to accept is that you are not unique! There will be other listeners just like you who have been asked and they have therefore 'spoken for you'. Statistically, if RAJAR hadn't picked on them, they might have picked on you.

I don't imagine the Facebook stats tell the BBC anything useful which will be welcome news. BBC research is duff, but RAJAR is jointly owned with the commercials so it isn't going to favour the BBC in processing its data.

[ardcarp]

Trying to curry favour with a 'younger generation' is a misconceived project. There is a direct analogy with church music. Trendy vicars think that 'modern' hymns (praise songs) are going to attract teenagers like flies. Wrong! Likewise, no teenagers or young adults are going to tune in to R3 just because presenters are cool dudes and keep face-booking and twittering. Young people with a genuine love of music will come to R3 in their own time...provided it hasn't gone completely down the tubes.

[Stillhomewardbound]

What a lovely message from Catherine Bott.

Alas, I seem to be very late in coming to this news which I hear with a heavy heart. The Early Music Show has always been a quarter that I have ventured to every weekend.

Both editions are the epitome of what I would call the Radio 3 ideal and CB and LS are amongst the finest broadcasters that the network has.

Regarding CD Review and a former colleague of mine, the esteemable Andrew McGregor, I'm pleased to hear R3 are busily plugging it. I'd like to imagine that the network is waking up to the fact that many of their programming decisions are greatly undermining the station's integrity.

This state of affairs is clearly reflected in the new film music programme on Saturday afternoons. It's only two editions old but, in my opinion, it does not augur well for a creditable presence on the network. Certainly, it pales when compared with 'Stage & Screen' presented by Edward Seckerson (and the younger voice whose name escapes me now, but he was very good) which was binned four or five years ago.

[Frances_iom]

On a contractual point, does the fact that Catherine has left R3 mean that she will no longer be asked to present any BBC programmes...e.e. fronting a BBC4 broadcast? In other words is it total goodbye to the Beeb?

She was down to introduce tonight's (Sunday) concert from Wigmore but was replaced - so looks as though 'tainted' goods in eyes of BBC (tho I still recall Paul Gambercini (?spelling) introducing his first R3 'show' with "and now on CFm" (how prescient that remark was in light of RW's activities)

[zola]

Certainly, it pales when compared with 'Stage & Screen' presented by Edward Seckerson (and the younger voice whose name escapes me now, but he was very good) which was binned four or five years ago.

Tommy Pearson

[David-G]

Actually, I was thinking the exact reverse! Although, as I've said, Classic FM has the more suitable audience for such a series already while Radio 3, on the whole, doesn't, the very concept of a 150-part series over three years is exactly the sort of programming Radio 3 should do - instead of cramming 150 hours worth into one week of saturation coverage which no listener is likely to be able to listen to in its entirety - thus losing the whole point of 'every note'.

Just what is the point of Radio 3 broadcasting 'every note that Beethoven wrote' in such a way that listeners won't realistically be able to hear it? A series over 3 years, one year or six months, where listeners can make their traditional 'appointment with radio' every week (and with iPlayer if they have to miss an episode, is exactly the way to treat subjects seriously.

And, with all due respect to Sue Perkins, I'd rather have Catherine leading me through 'Everything you wanted to know about the symphony' than humorous Sue with Tom Service giving us a 20-minute burst for a week or two during the concert interval.

To get back to the original point, that seems just like those who were cheering 'Thank goodness Radio 3 got Roger Wright rather than Roger Lewis who went to Classic FM. Just Look what he did there!' The point is that Roger Lewis did exactly what was right for Classic FM, building on its existing success. There's no reason to think he would have done the same job if he had been appointed to Radio 3. This new series will be - let's hope - exactly right for Classic FM and may Catherine gain oodles of new fans!

I could not agree more with you ff and with everyone else in this thread regarding the sad news about the EMS and CB's departure. I would suggest however, with respect, that your point about "every note that Beethoven wrote" distracts from the point here. I disagree with you fundamentally about this. I, and others, have greatly enjoyed the "every note that Beethoven (Mozart, Schubert...) wrote" events. In my view such events are in principle entirely compatible with what R3 should be doing. (In practice the style may sometimes be cringe-worthy.) But this is old ground which distracts from the discussion about the sad loss of CB.

[Russ]

They will know from the RAJAR data the average age of the audience. Judging from this forum, I'd guess that the 'old' listeners don't go away: they still listen and grumble about the things they don't like. So the average age won't descend to 25-34 for a few years - if ever.

Hell will freeze over before R3's demographic gets down to that level! Here's some research by Adam Bowie from 2004, but the demographics spread are I think substantially the same as they are now.

Russ

[Stillhomewardbound]

Tommy Pearson

Thank you so much, Zola!

It looks like they attempted to launch the brand online via the following website, but it appears the project never got off the ground. Still, giving it a perusal I can see that these were definitely the guys who could have made a proper go of the Movies season, for a start by arguing against three weeks.

http://www.stageandscreenonline.com/

[Richard Tarleton]

They will know from the RAJAR data the average age of the audience. Judging from this forum, I'd guess that the 'old' listeners don't go away: they still listen and grumble about the things they don't like. So the average age won't descend to 25-34 for a few years - if ever.

This is what puzzles me - presumably the "baby boomer" demographic which started listening to R3 40-50 years ago is a large one, and is constantly augmented by new recruits from the 1970s and 80s - we're constantly being told that there are going to be "more old people". Hasn't R3 recruited its loyal listenership up to now by being what it is? R3 (IMV) needs to accept that a significant, and expanding, actual and potential audience segment is always going to be 50 or 60 plus? Where is the sense in going out of your way to alienate them in the pursuit of a new and unreliable listenership? RW needed to find a way to keep - well, us - on board at the same time as bringing new listeners in. He could still expand his listener numbers by nurturing his older demographic, who have come to R3 in the fullness of time. Instead, I get the feeling he's be delighted if we'd all just go away.

Not to suggest that knowledgeable older listeners are R3's only, or main, demographic - just that they're a large part of it. He's chasing the wrong target.

On David-G's point, given the necessity to eat and sleep (and work, take exercise, etc) I've never seen the sense in the "every note" things, and always end up annoyed, listening to no more than I would anyway, and glad when they're over....Much better a "regular appointment" spread over weeks or months, as has been said.

[ardcarp]

I've never seen the sense in the "every note" things, and always end up annoyed, listening to no more than I would anyway, and glad when they're over....Much better a "regular appointment" spread over weeks or months, as has been said.

I couldn't agree more. Richard T. I am the biggest Bach fan alive, probably, and yet that Bach immersion thing a while ago just became unpleasant. And if it's some sort of genre I'm not keen on anyway, the radio just stays off. Like you, I just don't get the reasoning behind it. And it must be really irksome for programme producers (e.g. EMS) to be told they have to include film music.

[Thropplenoggin]

I couldn't agree more. Richard T. I am the biggest Bach fan alive, probably, and yet that Bach immersion thing a while ago just became unpleasant. And if it's some sort of genre I'm not keen on anyway, the radio just stays off. Like you, I just don't get the reasoning behind it. And it must be really irksome for programme producers (e.g. EMS) to be told they have to include film music.

Catherine Bott's 'film music' shows came laced with a delicious infusion of irony. A final riposte before the axe fell, perhaps? Radio 3 will be a poorer place without her wit and the canny juxtapositions on her programmes.

[ardcarp]

Catherine Bott's 'film music' shows came laced with a delicious infusion of irony.

Yes!

[Mattbod]

I wondered why Lucie has presented the show two weeks on the trot. Not that I mind: I love Lucie Skeaping! I will miss Catherine though but I can't bear Classic Fm:the adverts drive me potty. I am sure hard cash had a lot to do with Catherine leaving. But as to saturation, Classic FM has had these "all you need to know" mega series on classical music for years and they have been repeated by by numerous presenters: Stephen Fry, Tony Robinson and Alex James (pop star and celebrity pig farmer).

I guess I will be tuning in to the series though and gritting my teeth then the ads come on and John "Mr smooth voice and don't I know it" Brunning comes on to hawk another product. The period instrument show looks interesting

As to demographic I am 34 and been listening to 3 for ages along with 2 and 4. I fairly catholic. What I do object to is the patronising view of young people that says that content must be dumbed down to appeal to them.