Bournemouth Symphony Orchestra. Tonight live from the Lighthouse Poole

[EdgeleyRob]

Only 4 contributors took the trouble to post their reactions. I really don't know why I bother.

Performance? Who listens to performances when there are matters of world significance to discuss and resolve?

Platform 3 is in danger of collapsing under the weight.

HS

HS please don't think your posts are not appreciated,they certainly are here.
Oh to be able to write reviews of the quality of JLW and yourself.

Yes, I too worry about putting others off if I go on a bit

Never,your reviews are one of the best things on this forum Jayne.

[ahinton]

Your post suggested to me that you weren't yet of bus pass age....but were close enough to make it worth mentioning !
We?...those who don't yet qualify , an probably never will.
I am lucky enough to live in a village which still has a half decent bus service...though deteriorating rapidly.
To limp feebly back almost on topic, the Salisbury/Bournemouth bus service might just be good enough to get a person home from a Poole concert...last leg of the journey would be the problem.

Bus travel can seem like a nice change when you do 40k miles a year.

I would have thought that not travelling at all might seem like a nicer one under such circumstances!

I am of bus pass age (just!); I just don't look it (and if you believe the latter of those statements you'll believe that I'm a better composer than Rachmaninov). As it happens, I don't qualify for the state retirement benefit that is still quaintly known in some circles as state retirement pension or even old age pension and, like you with the bus pass, I doubt that I'll ever receive one as they'll no doubt be getting phased out by the time that I might otherwise become due for one; I don't really want to start borrowing any more money and if ever I did receive state retirement benefit I'd be doing so by the back door, since I understand that government is already borrowing towards the cost of paying this out now.

It is just about possible (at least on 5 out of 7 days per week) to get back to Hereford after a London concert but the amount of time that it takes to do so at that time of night is even more than at other times (and I'm still quite a distance from that city anyway).

Anyway - swiftly back to the topic, methinks!...

[Tony Halstead]

I have to agree, Jayne. Technically impressive, but musically disappointing

I'm now listening to the symphony. Oh dear! That dreadful horn solo! Oowha, oowha, oowha. What we used to call "pear-shaped notes".

I spent half my life teaching pupils not to play like that. I wonder what our friend waldhorn thinks of that sort of playing?

I'm sure that Maestro Karabits must have needed a lot of rehearsal time for the percussion concerto, but this Tchaikovsky is simply meaningless in shape and form to my ears - and there's some dodgy playing in the double basses, which the overweight balance does nothing to help.

Some nice bassoon playing in the third movement; spoiled by the basses who sound more like timpani than stringed instruments tonight.

Trick or Treat? Sorry folks, but this is no treat for me.

HS

Actually I liked the horn solo and found it poetic, romantic and musical! Played by Jonathan Barrett, Guest principal horn with the BSO.
It's a characteristic of rounded, darkly sonorous horn tone that a smooth phrase's 'transients' are less obviously audible than when that same phrase is played by a performer with a brighter, more 'direct and angular' tone.
It's been my experience - as both listener and performer - that a horn player with a tone that could be described as 'fat and wide' strives to blur or blunt the potential 'clicks' or 'sharp edges' when operating valves in a legato context.
This 'musical elision' can be perceived either as 'beautiful' or - as in Hs's analysis - 'dreadful'!
I listened to it twice and didn't notice any 'oowha' ... beauty is in the eye of the beholder, of course.
Although we clearly disagree on the musicality of JB's playing, I hope we can agree on the fact that the rotary valve produces a more 'bumpy' legato than the PISTON valve such as was the norm on the French or French-style horns formerly used until the 1930s-1940s.
Only in the Vienna Phil do we find the piston valve ( 6 of them, joined in pairs) horn still in use, giving Viennese horn playing its characteristically superb, smooth sound.

[salymap]

It gives me confidence to occasionally post something when two top professionals see a passage in a completely different light.

Someone wrote to me once about the different types of horn sound - I must look up his post.

It is wonderful to read the posts of people like Jayne but ordinary mortals like myself feel intimidated by it all.

[Hornspieler]

Actually I liked the horn solo and found it poetic, romantic and musical! Played by Jonathan Barrett, Guest principal horn with the BSO.
It's a characteristic of rounded, darkly sonorous horn tone that a smooth phrase's 'transients' are less obviously audible than when that same phrase is played by a performer with a brighter, more 'direct and angular' tone.
It's been my experience - as both listener and performer - that a horn player with a tone that could be described as 'fat and wide' strives to blur or blunt the potential 'clicks' or 'sharp edges' when operating valves in a legato context.
This 'musical elision' can be perceived either as 'beautiful' or - as in Hs's analysis - 'dreadful'! I listened to it twice and didn't notice any 'oowha' ... beauty is in the eye of the beholder, of course.

I very rarely disagree with waldhorn (message #33) and I can happily accept his viewpoint regarding that horn solo, but for me, I want to hear it played more romantically and therefore I would be looking for a degree of (tasteful) rubato in the phrasing.

Sticking closely to my own rule that "with rubato one must always pay back (in tempo) what one has borrowed - otherwise it becomes distortion" I will try to explain how I would play that solo* using a slight amount of rubato, coupled with extra stress on certain notes:

Capital Letters denote dotted crotchets]
{¦= barline}

With the first three quavers I would link the second to the first (tata-)so a very short break and the third quaver would link to the next bar (ta¦DAH-DAH-rest ) This phrase is now repeated (rhythmically) without any rubato

But then the next three quavers would be played strictly in time, maybe even a little quicker. (ta-ta-ta-¦Dah-Da-ta-Dahhh-ta¦Dah-Dah )

Is that not as clear as mud?

* Of course you may be sure that both waldhorn and I have played that solo many times and under several different conductors, who would also have their own opinions.

Although we clearly disagree on the musicality of JB's playing, I hope we can agree on the fact that the rotary valve produces a more 'bumpy' legato than the PISTON valve such as was the norm on the French or French-style horns formerly used until the 1930s-1940s.
Only in the Vienna Phil do we find the piston valve ( 6 of them, joined in pairs) horn still in use, giving Viennese horn playing its characteristically superb, smooth sound.

Yes, I happily agree with the remarks regarding the beautiful characteristics of the Vienna horn (sadly, I never had the opportunity to play on one) but we have to accept the huge benefits of the modern widebore rotary valved horn and can only strive to produce the quality of sound that we, as individuals, want to hear.

HS

[Dave2002]

Only 4 contributors took the trouble to post their reactions. I really don't know why I bother.

Performance? Who listens to performances when there are matters of world significance to discuss and resolve?

Platform 3 is in danger of collapsing under the weight.

HS

Thanks HS. Struck down by cold this week, and not able to do much at all. I don't always check out your recommendations, but often I do, and presumably there are still a few days for the concert you recommended on iPlayer. If it's the concert I think there are still 4 days left. Do I go straight for the Percussion piece, or is it worth hearing the Tchaikovsky one more time?

[Hornspieler]

Thanks HS.. I don't always check out your recommendations, but often I do, and presumably there are still a few days for the concert you recommended on iPlayer. If it's the concert I think there are still 4 days left. Do I go straight for the Percussion piece, or is it worth hearing the Tchaikovsky one more time?

Dave2002:

In view of JLRs comments, yes. Go for the percussion piece to see if you agree.

If you've already listened to the Tchaikovsky, listen again to the slow movement and then, (if you have it) listen to your recording and compare the horn solos. Then tell us all what you think.

Sorry to hear about your cold.

I recommend a large dose of whiskey and Stone's Green Ginger Wine. It may not cure your cold, but it will help you to ignore it.

HS

[salymap]

Morning HS, Stone's Green Ginger Wine - never without a bottle of that

Reply to message 37

[Dave2002]

Dave2002:

In view of JLRs comments, yes. Go for the percussion piece to see if you agree.

If you've already listened to the Tchaikovsky, listen again to the slow movement and then, (if you have it) listen to your recording and compare the horn solos. Then tell us all what you think.

Sorry to hear about your cold.

I recommend a large dose of whiskey and Stone's Green Ginger Wine. It may not cure your cold, but it will help you to ignore it.

HS

Cold receding - thanks!

I think the section you really didn't like is at 1:19:17 (iPlayer) where the horn player really sits rather heavily on his note. Perhaps it was an accident. Sounds a bit like "oh dear - over done that one", so fades off towards the end. I've heard worse, and I thought much of the horn playing was quite good - some really fast work in some sections which I'd not specifically looked out for before.

I thought despite Karabit's intro, he managed to make the end sound more triumphant than otherwise. IIRC Kossevitsky's recordings do much better at presenting a more tragic view of the ending, and I suspect they were more exciting overall. I didn't think the BSO (Bournemouth, not Boston) performance was really bad, though probably not as involving as it could have been. Also the sound quality makes quite a difference. I've listened a couple of times, and one of the streams I listened too was really poor quality, which gave a very muddied over impression. Even in HD the SQ wasn't always good - is that hall difficult to record in?

I'll revisit later for the percussion work.

[bluestateprommer]

Just caught up with this Bournemouth SO concert of Beethoven's Violin Concerto and R. Strauss' Symphonia Domestica, hours before the 30 day deadline:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m00021kn

Hadelich took the first movement quite spaciously, but then released the hounds ever so slightly in the finale (not hectically, just notably brisker). Blistering encore from AH of the Paganini Caprice No. 24. It says something that as much as everyone knows the opening, that's not necessarily the case with the rest of the work.

The Richard Strauss received a very fine reading indeed, with momentary very minor blips of intonation (including the very last chord, but just a fractional moment, understandable after two very substantial large-scale works). According to Martin Handley (resident presenter for all the Bournemouth SO concerts, it seems), this may well have been the orchestra's first performances of the work, as well as Karabits' first time conducting it. It didn't show, as his pacing was very sure. I wonder if, in its more understated way, this is the successor UK orchestra/conductor partnership to the RLPO/Vasily Petrenko partnership, in terms of overall quality and notability, as we are now in the 11th season of the Bournemouth/Karabits tenure.

[ardcarp]

Damn. Missed it.

[Bryn]

Damn. Missed it.

Not necessarily. Check your PM inbox, then act within the next 7 days.

[ardcarp]

Thanks Bryn. Heard it now. I love the Beethoven Violin Concerto*, but agree with post #40 that the first movement was a bit langouorous. The Strauss I didn't know at all and would like to hear a few other performances before passing judgement.

*Strange how one can alight on a favourite performance, but Hilary Hahn, Bernstein and the Balimore SO does it for me.