BaL 23.03.24 - Puccini: Madame Butterfly

[Ein Heldenleben]

Ha! My favourite scene these days in Turandot is the first in Act 2, where the 'Three Pees' take off their masks and reveal their human, civil servant-style dreams and family aspirations. It is a beautiful, moving and unexpected twist. Then they go back to being cruel and jaded. Trigger Warnings are, of course, a sign of a colonial empire in decline, and I'm only sorry that such ludicrous pieces of middle-class prudism are gaining ground over here too.

Yes - one of the loveliest pieces of music Puccini ever wrote and for the ,on the face of it unappealing, mix of three male voices.
as I’ve said many times the best trigger warnings would be soprano has dodgy vibrato or older thesp goes full on ham in Act 2 but for some reason you never get those.

[Barbirollians]

The Anna Moffo/Leinsdorf recording, in a budget lp release in the 1960s, was my introduction to the opera as a teenager and it was a thrilling experience - the early stereo was used effectively, sounding more like the opera house than a recording studio (and you heard Butterfly's dagger drop to the ground at the end, most affectingly). It never appeared to have been transferred to cd and is only available as a highlights download - except that I now find a complete re-release on cd is promised in May on Urania records. (I wonder if RCA's 3-microphone technique was used iin the original 1957 recording; it would be nice to have a 3-channel sacd refurbishment, as with Leinsdorf's later version with Leontyne Price?)

It was transferred to CD in the late 1980s in the RCA Victor mid price opera series . The remastering got a rough ride from MEO in Gramophone whilst he praised the singing he was not too keen on Leinsdorf either.

[Barbirollians]

I have listened to the Pappano this evening . I had forgotten quite how good it was . Apparently, EMI’s first Butterfly since Barbirolli. Gheorghiu I think was at her peak .Kaufmann is splendid too but perhaps as so often on visits to the ROH Tony P - and his orchestra are the biggest stars.

[Master Jacques]

It was transferred to CD in the late 1980s in the RCA Victor mid price opera series . The remastering got a rough ride from MEO in Gramophone whilst he praised the singing he was not too keen on Leinsdorf either.

It was fashionable to give Leinsdorf a bad rap for his conducting, on this side of the Atlantic. I found most such criticisms baffling myself, as his clean, straightforward - and commendably non-egotistical - approach allowed full weight to the drama (in German as much as Italian opera) as well as getting the best out of his singers. Unlike certain starry modern colleagues, he didn't get snarled up in orchestral detail, which leaves too many operatic performances dead in the water. When I read (or write!) that the conductor and orchestra are the stars of the show, I sense that something isn't quite right.

[Ein Heldenleben]

It was fashionable to give Leinsdorf a bad rap for his conducting, on this side of the Atlantic. I found most such criticisms baffling myself, as his clean, straightforward - and commendably non-egotistical - approach allowed full weight to the drama (in German as much as Italian opera) as well as getting the best out of his singers. Unlike certain starry modern colleagues, he didn't get snarled up in orchestral detail, which leaves too many operatic performances dead in the water. When I read (or write!) that the conductor and orchestra are the stars of the show, I sense that something isn't quite right.

Yep it means the singers ain’t up to much - increasingly the case in these star starved days. Have you noticed how many of the Cio-Cio Sans in the shortlist were singing at the same time albeit at different phases of their career? I reckon 1955 -75 were just about the high point of (as recorded) spinto singing.I just caught the fag end of it in stage terms., Georghiu has a lovely voice but none of the live performances I’ve seen of hers suggest she has the power for this role. It’s a microphone or front stalls voice,

[Barbirollians]

I am sorry both of you but re the singers not being up to much is patently twoddle so far as both the Barbirolli and Pappano versions are concerned where both conductors are outstanding. Santini wasn't outstanding but that Butterfly is saved by the singers.

[Ein Heldenleben]

I am sorry both of you but re the singers not being up to much is patently twoddle so far as both the Barbirolli and Pappano versions are concerned where both conductors are outstanding. Santini wasn't outstanding but that Butterfly is saved by the singers.

I wasn’t referring to that performance but I did mention Georghiu later so I can see your thinking. To clear matters up Georghiu and Kaufman are very fine singers but I don’t think they have the vocal heft for the really big roles live .Recording is a different matter . They are just not in the Tebaldi , Freni, Pavarotti, Bergonzi league. I’ve seen Kaufman live many times - fine as a Pinkerton or Cavaradossi but Otello was too much for him. Georghiu’s voice has really weakened in the last ten years - by which I mean she’s lost power. There is a current palpable dearth of singers who can really sing Cio Cio San , Turandot , Calaf, Otello and for that matter Brunhilde and Siegfried, Tristan and Isolde.
A good recent example of what MJ was saying is this Saturday’s Turandot - fabulous orchestra but some of the singing just patchy to very good . Within living memory Birgit Nilsson used to sing the title role here.

[Master Jacques]

I am sorry both of you but re the singers not being up to much is patently twoddle so far as both the Barbirolli and Pappano versions are concerned where both conductors are outstanding. Santini wasn't outstanding but that Butterfly is saved by the singers.

Far be it from me to round out your description of Barbirolli's approach, of all people! But it is worth recalling that when it came to his work as an opera conductor - and he conducted a large number of works live at Covent Garden in his earlier career, notwithstanding those few complete performances on disc - it was as a supportive foil to his singers that he excelled. Everything in his peerless Butterfly is geared to them.

Even those moments where the band is given its head (e.g. his unforgettable orchestral repeat in the 'Cherry Duet') he is responding in the style Scotto and di Stasio have sung the phrases, encouraging his strings to respond to them directly rather than "doing his thing" in the way that ... well, certain other conductors insist on. He doesn't draw attention to himself (except where groaning out loud!) but to Puccini's wonderful score, and some wonderful singing. His set is a classic because of its elevated teamwork, not for starry conducting. Same with his Otello, except of course the singing there isn't quite so consistently good.

[Ein Heldenleben]

Far be it from me to round out your description of Barbirolli's approach, of all people! But it is worth recalling that when it came to his work as an opera conductor - and he conducted a large number of works live at Covent Garden in his earlier career, notwithstanding those few complete performances on disc - it was as a supportive foil to his singers that he excelled. Everything in his peerless Butterfly is geared to them.

Even those moments where the band is given its head (e.g. his unforgettable orchestral repeat in the 'Cherry Duet') he is responding in the style Scotto and di Stasio have sung the phrases, encouraging his strings to respond to them directly rather than "doing his thing" in the way that ... well, certain other conductors insist on. He doesn't draw attention to himself (except where groaning out loud!) but to Puccini's wonderful score, and some wonderful singing. His set is a classic because of its elevated teamwork, not for starry conducting. Same with his Otello, except of course the singing there isn't quite so consistently good.

Their final phrase and float up to the final chord of the flower duet where Scotto sings a Bflat to Suzuki’s D is one of the greatest moments in the history of recorded opera . No wonder he was groaning.,.

[Master Jacques]

Their final phrase and float up to the final chord of the flower duet where Scotto sings a Bflat to Suzuki’s D is one of the greatest moments in the history of recorded opera . No wonder he was groaning.,.

Hear, hear!

[vinteuil]

Barbirolli / Scotto
Maazel / Scotto


(Scotto to win )

Which Scotto??

... the one I didn't already have had better be good : I have just invested £2.88 (plus p&p) in a used very good copy ( and the other one had already set me back some £1.67 (plus p&p).) .


...

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[Ein Heldenleben]

Which Scotto??

... the one I didn't already have had better be good : I have just invested £2.88 (plus p&p) in a used very good copy ( and the other one had already set me back some £1.67 (plus p&p).) .


...

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I haven’t heard the Maazel (recently ) but I see the Penguin Guide criticises Domingo for making Pinkerton too interesting . I mean honestly critics…

[RobP]

I must check that out in the big Barbirolli box. The editing team have done a superb join cleaning up that set, so it's possible that they've been able to filter it out (though that will not please everyone).

The 24/192 version is pretty good, unfortunately the compressed CDs are a pale reflection of the white angel LPs.

Filtering out the moans is not as simple as it sounds. The world's leading remastering software, iZotope RX10 can remove some coughs etc. But if they are completely embedded in the sound the best you will be able to do is partially remove them.

Warner have outsourced their remasterings to a French company, who are pretty good. But remastering isn't cheap because it's labour intensive and when it comes to moans, coughs etc each noise has to be edited by hand, you can't just flick a switch.

[gradus]

I'm a Barbirolli moans and groans fan and in much the same way enjoy hearing Beecham occasionally voicing un-scored additions, somehow for me it adds to the sense of performance.
On a different tack, Butterfly has wonderful music for the soprano but it also has the splendid duet between Sharpless and Pinkerton ending in their patriotic toast, Sharpless's attempt to warn a heedless Pinkerton that Cio-io San takes his advances seriously is a wonderful piece of writing and a moment for a really fine baritone to shine.

[Ein Heldenleben]

I'm a Barbirolli moans and groans fan and in much the same way enjoy hearing Beecham occasionally voicing un-scored additions, somehow for me it adds to the sense of performance.
On a different tack, Butterfly has wonderful music for the soprano but it also has the splendid duet between Sharpless and Pinkerton ending in their patriotic toast, Sharpless's attempt to warn a heedless Pinkerton that Cio-io San takes his advances seriously is a wonderful piece of writing and a moment for a really fine baritone to shine.

To which I would add the Act 3 Suzuki , Sharpless, Pinkerton trio . A really masterful piece of part writing harmony and high emotion use of suspension.