Chit-chat and dumbing-down...

[Karafan]

It is perhaps when I listen to old recordings of BaL, that I am most pointedly reminded of what was lost when the 'two hander' approach was allowed to live, rather than being strangled at birth as the idea surely warranted. There follows Richard Osborne's closing paragraph on reviewing Mahler 6. This type of scholarly erudition is probably sneered-at in the corridors of the BBC now. But I, for one, lament its loss. Can you imagine any reviewer trying to insert this among Andrew's constant chatter?

"Herbert von Karajan once remarked that he ranked Mahler's sixth, with the fourth of Brahms and Sibelius, as symphonies which end, as he put it, in complete catastrophe.

Most Mahler symphonies end in triumph or in sincere, heaven-sent deliquescence; but not the sixth. The solemn, plucked 'A' which ushers in the coda, and its paler reiteration at the end, are like so many clods of earth falling on Mahler's coffin, whilst the four trombones - solemn pallbearers - grind out a slow fugato, and the soured minor tryad is heard for the very last time. It's a grim defeat in the midst of personal plenty; eerily prophetic of the catastrophies which were to befall first Mahler, then his family and finally, in 1914, Europe itself."

[Serial_Apologist]

I wouldn't be as defeatist as the implication. At least, being honest, it is preferable for what is now allowed to stand in for serious cultural coverage on Radio 3

[Petrushka]

It is perhaps when I listen to old recordings of BaL, that I am most pointedly reminde
"Herbert von Karajan once remarked that he ranked Mahler's sixth, with the fourth of Brahms and Sibelius, as symphonies which end, as he put it, in complete catastrophe.

Most Mahler symphonies end in triumph or in sincere, heaven-sent deliquescence; but not the sixth. The solemn, plucked 'A' which ushers in the coda, and its paler reiteration at the end, are like so many clods of earth falling on Mahler's coffin, whilst the four trombones - solemn pallbearers - grind out a slow fugato, and the soured minor tryad is heard for the very last time. It's a grim defeat in the midst of personal plenty; eerily prophetic of the catastrophies which were to befall first Mahler, then his family and finally, in 1914, Europe itself."

That quote from Richard Osborne did, I think, occur in his Interpretations on Record discussion on the Mahler 6 though he could well have used for BaL too. I remember it so well because I recorded the IoR programme and listened to it several times. Your point certainly still stands, though, either way.

[Retune]

I'm fine with either format. Using a dialogue rather than a monologue to probe the issues and educate the audience is something that goes back at least 2400 years, after all. And the three editions of BaL since it was consigned to the afternoon doldrums have been exemplary. Compared to everything else that is happening to R3, I'm happy enough with how the RR slot (or what remains of it) is being used, though I'd love to see it complemented by something on the lines of Interpretations on Record. Fat chance of that under current management, though.

[Goon525]

I suspect it’s true that (a) most of us here have a lot of respect for AMcG’s knowledge and presentational abilities, but (b) find his contributions to the the two-hander BaL format add little. Invariably, Andrew and the reviewer find themselves in glorious agreement - it would be uncomfortable if it were otherwise - and so his words add little, beyond moving the plot along. Given the vast number of versions of most works considered, 45 minutes is barely time to do the job properly, and I reckon if you removed Andrew from the process, you could probably illustrate a couple more (or probe a little deeper into the shortlist).

[smittims]

I've long disliked the 'two-hander' from its appearance on early-evening TV news programmes etc. I think the idea was ro avoid the 'voice-of-God' implication, and to introduce diversity : one of the two has to be a woman, one has to be afro-caribbean*. In my view the content of the programme inevitably suffers: the medium becomes more important than the message. I think this is the esence of dumbing-down, and its manifestations on Radio3 today are legion.

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* apologies if this term has become 'politically-incorrect' ; I fnd it difficult to keep up with the speed at which my language is being taken away from me.

[LMcD]

I've long disliked the 'two-hander' from its appearance on early-evening TV news programmes etc. I think the idea was ro avoid the 'voice-of-God' implication, and to introduce diversity : one of the two has to be a woman, one has to be afro-caribbean*. In my view the content of the programme inevitably suffers: the medium becomes more important than the message. I think this is the esence of dumbing-down, and its manifestations on Radio3 today are legion.

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* apologies if this term has become 'politically-incorrect' ; I fnd it difficult to keep up with the speed at which my language is being taken away from me.

I'm dreading the day when it becomes 'one has to be Tom Service'.

[Ein Heldenleben]

I've long disliked the 'two-hander' from its appearance on early-evening TV news programmes etc. I think the idea was ro avoid the 'voice-of-God' implication, and to introduce diversity : one of the two has to be a woman, one has to be afro-caribbean*. In my view the content of the programme inevitably suffers: the medium becomes more important than the message. I think this is the esence of dumbing-down, and its manifestations on Radio3 today are legion.

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* apologies if this term has become 'politically-incorrect' ; I fnd it difficult to keep up with the speed at which my language is being taken away from me.

Not so much politically incorrect as factually incorrect . There are only a handful of Afro-Caribbean heritage news studio presenters in the UK doing the main evening shows.
The two hander (for news programmes ) was introduced by ITN with such diversity trail blazers as Sir Alistair Burnett Reginald Bosanquet, Sandy Gall ans Andrew Gardner at the helm . Though they did recruit British TV’s first Afro Caribbean Anchor Trevor MacDonald .
Now neither the BBC nor ITN have double handed presentation on their main evening bulletins. The BBC regional news got rid of the second presenter a couple of years ago to save money.
In news two handed presentation is now looked on as old fashioned and a luxury, BAL isn’t strictly a two handed presentation. It’s more presenter and interviewee.

[Serial_Apologist]

It's one thing to have two newscasters introducing the same supposedly objective news in a shared out way to keep the viewer's or listener's attention; another to have two presenters on a possibly disputed subject where one gives one angle, the other another, and maybe having callers invigilating.

[akiralx]

To be fair I do recall RO, I think in relation to a Beechamesque lollipop, quoting ‘Mr Dick Emery - “Ooh, you are awful, but I like you”’.