BaL 11.05.24 - Stravinsky: The Firebird

[vinteuil]

BBC listing of the recommended version: no details of format availability!

Recommended version
Montreal Symphony Orchestra
Charles Dutoit
Decca 4144092

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B0000041Q9

[Roger Webb]

Snap (though via Deezer); still disappointed by the very end.

I remember sitting in the choir seats for a performance of the 1945 suite (I imagine) in the RFH in the early 1980s under Frühbeck de Burgos (the concert included Robert Cohen as soloist in the Dvorak) and being bowled over as layer upon layer joined in the finale! The overall brass glow was just wonderful.

I'm playing it through my 'big' system, I didn't really notice any reticence in the brass, although the sound is very bass-heavy in the big moments, perhaps it 'swamps' the sound - I'll have to play it again.....just playing the end of 'Fireworks' and the balance is fine. Perhaps Dutoit wanted it like that....Oops sorry Kate, it must be the orchestral players commitee who decided!

[Wolfram]

I'm playing it through my 'big' system, I didn't really notice any reticence in the brass, although the sound is very bass-heavy in the big moments, perhaps it 'swamps' the sound - I'll have to play it again.....just playing the end of 'Fireworks' and the balance is fine. Perhaps Dutoit wanted it like that....Oops sorry Kate, it must be the orchestral players commitee who decided!

I might have misheard, but I thought she said her recommendation was in honour of the Montreal players, not the man on the podium. If I’ve remembered correctly, then her recommendation is a sort of dedication to the musicians of the orchestra, and a way of acknowledging the unacceptable behaviour of the conductor without punishing an excellent recording and all those involved in the collaborative effort that is a major orchestral recording. I thought she handled it quite well. I liked her BaL as a whole, and will try the winning version.

[Pulcinella]

I might have misheard, but I thought she said her recommendation was in honour of the Montreal players, not the man on the podium. If I’ve remembered correctly, then her recommendation is a sort of dedication to the musicians of the orchestra, and a way of acknowledging the unacceptable behaviour of the conductor without punishing an excellent recording and all those involved in the collaborative effort that is a major orchestral recording. I thought she handled it quite well. I liked her BaL as a whole, and will try the winning version.

She might have handled 'it' quite well, but what worries me is that 'it' needs handling at all.
Are we not all able to make our own decisions on such things?
Are we to expect a similar 'apology if I cause offence'-type caveat if any Dutoit, Levine, King....performance should be chosen in future?

[Pulcinella]

Snap (though via Deezer); still disappointed by the very end.

I remember sitting in the choir seats for a performance of the 1945 suite (I imagine) in the RFH in the early 1980s under Frühbeck de Burgos (the concert included Robert Cohen as soloist in the Dvorak) and being bowled over as layer upon layer joined in the finale! The overall brass glow was just wonderful.

Sorry: not the absolute very end: I mean the transition from the Berceuse into the Finale: that first entry (probably fiendish, as it's so exposed) of the solo horn: p dolce, cantabile; with no dynamics change in the accompanying string parts (well, there isn't in the 1919 suite, anyway!).
But I'll listen again.

[CallMePaul]

I might have misheard, but I thought she said her recommendation was in honour of the Montreal players, not the man on the podium. If I’ve remembered correctly, then her recommendation is a sort of dedication to the musicians of the orchestra, and a way of acknowledging the unacceptable behaviour of the conductor without punishing an excellent recording and all those involved in the collaborative effort that is a major orchestral recording. I thought she handled it quite well. I liked her BaL as a whole, and will try the winning version.

Checking out the allegations against Dutoit on Wikipedia, I found that, at an unspecified time before today's broadcast, that Kate Molleson had recommended Dutoit/OSM's recordings of Stravinsky's Paris ballets (as Wikipedia calls them) as the best available. Given this, was she an appropriate reviewer for this piece on BAL?

Having said that, I have to say that I was more impressed with Roth/ Les siecles performance and I may check that one for CD availbility.

[Roger Webb]

I might have misheard, but I thought she said her recommendation was in honour of the Montreal players, not the man on the podium. If I’ve remembered correctly, then her recommendation is a sort of dedication to the musicians of the orchestra, and a way of acknowledging the unacceptable behaviour of the conductor without punishing an excellent recording and all those involved in the collaborative effort that is a major orchestral recording. I thought she handled it quite well. I liked her BaL as a whole, and will try the winning version.

No I probably misheard.....but she picked the best version...that's all that matters really.....my comments were made largely frivolously.

[Roger Webb]

Sorry: not the absolute very end: I mean the transition from the Berceuse into the Finale: that first entry (probably fiendish, as it's so exposed) of the solo horn: p dolce, cantabile; with no dynamics change in the accompanying string parts (well, there isn't in the 1919 suite, anyway!).
But I'll listen again.

Ah, now I know where you mean....the very end is very good - I've just played it again. Overall its a cracking version - like you I have Stravs own as you know.

Like you I wonder if it was really necessary/wise to say anything.....the Wiki post is interesting, though the comment could be have been made ages ago, before the Dutoit story broke.

[RobP]

Interesting but some spurious waffle at the beginning about IS being Diaghilev's 5 choice or whatever, which elicited a wow from McGregor and then justifying choosing the full version. Roth is fascinating, but Dorati on Mercury LP remains a benchmark. There's also a tremendously moving DVD with Stravinsky and the New Philharmonia at the RFH where you can watch a genius at work. It comes as a bonus item to Markevitch.

[gradus]

One of those pieces I rarely play at home but often listen to on R3. From memory the Dorati/LSO is astonishingly exciting throughout especially in Katschei's Dance. Those Mercury recordings were pretty special.

[Barbirollians]

I own two CD versions Rattle and Dutoit . I would have had them in the opposite order but both are outstanding .

[Nick Armstrong]

I might have misheard, but I thought she said her recommendation was in honour of the Montreal players, not the man on the podium. If I’ve remembered correctly, then her recommendation is a sort of dedication to the musicians of the orchestra, and a way of acknowledging the unacceptable behaviour of the conductor without punishing an excellent recording and all those involved in the collaborative effort that is a major orchestral recording. I thought she handled it quite well. I liked her BaL as a whole, and will try the winning version.

Yes her words were “I chose this recording in appreciation of the musicians not the man on the podium”

[Wolfram]

Yes her words were “I chose this recording in appreciation of the musicians not the man on the podium”

I don’t know; it’s almost impossible to navigate around these issues today. I think Pulcinella is right; we should each be left to make up our own minds and act accordingly. King was ignored in the recent Monteverdi Vespers BaL; his version hasn’t suddenly stopped being the excellent performance that it is because of what he did. Whichever view you take you are going to end up upsetting someone. However, despite of all that, I still think Parrott’s recording is unsurpassable. I’ll be interested to see if Pichon’s offering enjoys similar longevity.

[Barbirollians]

As far as I am aware Dutoit has not been convicted of any crime as grim as the allegations are he has not been judged upon it in a court of law either civil or criminal . King is a convicted paedophile. I am not sure they are comparable .

[Roger Webb]

Yes her words were “I chose this recording in appreciation of the musicians not the man on the podium”

That was my point above (#32), perhaps it was insensitive to treat it frivolously but what I meant was the decisions made in the performance were a collaboration between orchestra and conductor. For Kate to 'appreciate' the musicians in the orchestra and not the musician on the podium is absurd, espescially as, has been pointed out, he has not been charged with any offence.